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anivoc
668 Posts |
 Posted - 05/15/2016 : 11:19:52
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| KMWS you live in So Cal like me...Petty Spurge grows all over So Cal..just become familiar with what the plant looks like and then go to the local nature preserve...you're pretty sure to find it... |
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BobCA
43 Posts |
Posted - 05/15/2016 : 12:11:42
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| Yes, I had a huge bloom in my yard this Spring in Northern Cal. Still lots of plants but they are starting to die off. |
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IanL
7 Posts |
Posted - 05/15/2016 : 21:47:21
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Hi KMWS,
Yes, definitely not native to Australia as Waverider suggested and also pretty sure they came to Australia from the UK via immigration as the early settlers were already using the plant to cure corns & warts back then (read that somewhere). Hopefully you can find them in the local nature reserve. I tried that here but didn't have a very good idea of how to recognize them so ordered seeds to be safe. Now that I've successfully grown a few I think it would be easy to spot them. That PO smashing machine must have been lethal to do such a great job on such small seeds. I wonder if even a padded envelope would have been much help! |
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KMWS
18 Posts |
Posted - 05/18/2016 : 12:52:10
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| Using Petty Spurge to get rid of "corns & warts" seems to be contradictory to what some people are saying that Petty Spurge only attacks 'cancer cells' and leaves other cells alone??? |
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BobCA
43 Posts |
Posted - 05/18/2016 : 13:15:54
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The active ingredient in Petty Spurge is Imgenol mebutate. It works on cells that are rapidly dividing. It actually causes cell death (necrosis) and the stimulates the body's own immune system to clean up the dead cells. This is why the scab forms.
Unless a corn has rapidly dividing calls, and they may, petty spurge won't do its thing. When the immune system is repairing the dead cells it is also generating new healthy cells that are also rapidly dividing. This is why it is recommended to only apply petty spurge once a day for 3 days. You will read here at times that someone will use it for an extended period and the hole gets bigger and never heals. That is the spurge killing healthy cells that are rapidly dividing. |
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KMWS
18 Posts |
Posted - 05/25/2016 : 13:42:57
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quote:
Originally posted by anivoc
KMWS you live in So Cal like me...Petty Spurge grows all over So Cal..just become familiar with what the plant looks like and then go to the local nature preserve...you're pretty sure to find it...
ANIVOC, can you please tell me which local nature preserve you found Petty Spurge at because I printed the photos found on this forum and took them to the Santa Ana River trail and couldn't find any Petty Spurge? Thanks! |
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anivoc
668 Posts |
Posted - 05/25/2016 : 14:29:57
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Hey KMWS I live in Covina "Anivoc" get it? ;)
I haven't looked this year as I am not using the petty spurge but I have seen it growing along the Pete Schabarum equestrian trail in the past in Rowland heights..I have it growing in my yard in Covina...Once you know what it looks like you'll see it everywhere...MY daughter lives in Orange and I saw it growing in her yard a few years back.,
Here's a link to the Schabarum park trail http://alltrails.com/trail/us/california/schabarum-regional-park-schabarum-trail |
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KMWS
18 Posts |
Posted - 05/25/2016 : 15:57:17
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quote:
Originally posted by anivoc
Hey KMWS I live in Covina "Anivoc" get it? ;)
I haven't looked this year as I am not using the petty spurge but I have seen it growing along the Pete Schabarum equestrian trail in the past in Rowland heights..I have it growing in my yard in Covina...Once you know what it looks like you'll see it everywhere...MY daughter lives in Orange and I saw it growing in her yard a few years back.,
Here's a link to the Schabarum park trail http://alltrails.com/trail/us/california/schabarum-regional-park-schabarum-trail
Thanks Anivoc! When you were in a ‘nature preserve’ did you find Petty Spurge in the open sun or in the shade? About how large were the Petty Spurge plants you saw in the wild? I’m just trying to find it somewhere locally while the seeds I received from a kind person on this forum grow so I can start using it now rather than later. |
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anivoc
668 Posts |
Posted - 05/26/2016 : 10:36:24
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The plants grow in shaded areas with very little sun..They don't seem to fare well in direct sunlight in my experience...They range in size with big ones being maybe a foot wide and tall to smaller like the ones in the link below. It's to a PDF of pictures I took this morning of the two that happened to sprout up in my back yard this spring.
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B-O_7KRmCMGwMVVSTDljYkZ0djA/view?usp=sharing |
Edited by - anivoc on 05/26/2016 10:38:18 |
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waverider
76 Posts |
Posted - 05/26/2016 : 11:29:48
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KMWS:
Calflora.org is an online database for locating wild plants in CA. I've used it before. You can go to the site and register with a email and password. Then go back to the home page, enter Euphorbia peplus in the Plant Search box and click Search. Click thru the next page and it will bring up an interactive map of CA and then you just click on L.A. county (or whatever county you want.) A directory of sightings of Petty Spurge in that specific county contributed by volunteer wild plant enthusiasts will come up. For ex, there are now 118 Petty Spurge sightings listed in L.A. county. There is some info in the accompanying table about each location -- some is very vague and some are more specific, like an actual street address. Also some sightings are very recent (2016) while some are decades ago and no doubt long out of date. If you click on the link at each sighting on the list it brings up the location on a google map insert.
Caveat:
Back when I was getting into this 8 years ago, I utilized Calflora site to try to find PS growing in the wild, like you are doing. I was unable to find any using the info on Calflora. I climbed way up in the Glendale hills one early a.m. to a listed sighting and even bushwhacked in Griffith Park. Also went to a site on the PCH near Zuma Beach. In some cases, location details on Calflora included GPS coordinates where PS was verified to be growing. But even going to the exact spot with a GPS in my hand, I couldn't find any. However, it's important to note that I was searching in August -- after a hot SoCal summer which typically nukes PS into oblivion. It might be different at this time of year, I don't know. I just remember that I didn't have any luck. As fall rolled around, I sent off to Aus for seeds instead and got a crop growing in cool weather. |
Edited by - waverider on 05/26/2016 11:53:43 |
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judo
33 Posts |
Posted - 05/27/2016 : 08:36:29
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Just an idea...on the basis that some of us believe these lesions are down to an underlying fungal infection, has anyone on here ever tried taking a prescription anti-fungal such as Itraconazole? I read an article on Medscape recently that suggested it could be useful for BCC's.
I'm not a fan of any drugs but if it might help to rid yourself of the cause, maybe it's useful.
Any thoughts Bob / Dan? |
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judo
33 Posts |
Posted - 05/27/2016 : 08:41:02
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If you google itraconazole bcc medscape, it should be the first link.
The study patients were treated for a month and reduced tumour areas were reported. If anyone has had a fungal nail infection and had it treated with drugs then you'll know how long it takes to eradicate the fungus. Potentially if one was treated for longer than a month, the tumour area would reduce further.
I might be barking up the wrong tree but I wanted to mention it to some like minded people. |
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BobCA
43 Posts |
Posted - 05/27/2016 : 09:54:41
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Judo, I think you may be barking up the wrong tree. The most common fungal infections in humans are nail and ringworm (tinea corporis). Both of these can be treated with a topical fungicide. Ringworm will resolve fairly quickly but toenail fungus takes a while. Why?, because you have to 1) get to the fungus to kill it, 2) wait for a new healthy nail to grow in (which can take up to a year), 3) keep the fungus from coming back. It is a process. FWIW, I have found tea tree oil used religiously to be better than any fungicide.
But we digress from the subject of this forum. I have seen no research that demonstrates ingenol mebutate in Petty Spurge will react with fungi and fungicides do not work on AKs and surface BCCs and SCC. |
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judo
33 Posts |
Posted - 06/17/2016 : 07:27:52
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Thanks Bob, as I said just thought I'd mention it.
Well the lesion on my head has never really gone away, it still scabs, pusses and bleeds a little, then the scab comes off and it does it all again. I treated it with PS twice (gap of around 2-3 months in between) and whilst it reacted quite angrily, it never really went away. I have therefore booked an appointment with my doctor next Tuesday. Initially he said he would do a 4mm biopsy to find out exactly what it is I then asked him, the lesion itself is probably only around 5mm diameter, can we remove the whole thing? He said he would take a look when I go next week and decided from there but didn't see that as an issue.
What do you guys think, should I go for the smaller biopsy or, if he agrees, remove the whole thing? |
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BobCA
43 Posts |
Posted - 06/17/2016 : 09:37:00
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Just my opinion but a biopsy is only to tell the derm that cancer cells are present and what type. Without knowing that information I doubt the derm coukd get all the cancer. Therefore, I don't beleive a 4 or 5 cm would matter because if it is cancer the chances of you not having to go back to him would be very skim.
He first needs to know what hecis dealing with. Keep us posted because tge strong reaction to the sourge certainly indicates something is there. Hopefully not, but it may be deeper than we would like. let us know and best of luck. |
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BobCA
43 Posts |
Posted - 06/18/2016 : 14:07:22
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| I was thinking about this a little more and if the lesion is not on your face, usually requiring MOH surgery, the derm could certainly be agressive and take more tissue than he needs with the intent on getting everything in the first pass. He would then need to check the margins during pathology to insure he indeed did get everything but at least you'd most likely only need to be there for one visit. Did the derm go over options with you? |
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judo
33 Posts |
Posted - 06/22/2016 : 09:13:25
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| Thanks Bob. It's actually on my scalp, I went through the options and he said he'd prefer to do a biopsy for the time being and refer me to a plastic surgeon for further treatment if required - he wasn't comfortable taking any more himself. Had it done yesterday, stings and aches quite a bit now, stitches out next week, results in around 3-4 weeks. |
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BobCA
43 Posts |
Posted - 06/22/2016 : 10:21:48
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| You have to respect a man with a knife who knows his limitations. Let's hope it's nothing but if it is cancer I would expect you should hear in 3 or 4 days. At least that has been my experience. Best of luck, keep us posted, the more we share real world experiences the most educated we become on the effectiveness and possible limitations of the treatments. |
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KMWS
18 Posts |
Posted - 06/22/2016 : 11:47:26
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| Does anyone know how long the PS is supposed to live? BobCA said he had a huge bloom in his yard this Spring in Northern Cal. BobCA also said he has lots of plants but they are starting to die off. I dug up some PS I found in a friends yard in the middle of May and planted them in pots. I kept them in partial sunlight, as some recommended, eventhough I found them in my friends yard in direct sunlight. They were doing good until last week??? They started turning yellow and losing their leaves??? I was wondering if I was watering too much or did I use the wrong dirt mixture for planting??? Any ideas? |
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waverider
76 Posts |
Posted - 06/22/2016 : 20:07:40
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| PS is classified a winter annual, not a summer plant, so I think they are just genetically programmed to die off in summer. Personally, I've never successfully kept a crop growing thru the hot summer months (in socal we've had enough of heat already.) Even if I protected them from direct sunlight just the ambient heat in the air seems to give the plant the signal to falter and die. However, I think way back in this thread somewhere there are some mentions of keeping them indoors in A/C in summer and getting results. |
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BobCA
43 Posts |
Posted - 08/08/2016 : 14:40:01
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| Judo, you had a biopsy on 6/22 after multiple PS attempts. I have had 100% success rate with PS in identifying cancers and AKs. The fact that you had a strong reaction to the PS leads me to believe there might have been something present. WHat did your biopsy reveal? |
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jamesv
1 Posts |
Posted - 01/18/2017 : 14:28:39
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| Hello every one.Great information here! Does any one know where I can get petty surge seeds? Thanks so much! Jim |
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BobCA
43 Posts |
Posted - 01/18/2017 : 14:48:45
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Hi James, it's been awhile since anyone had posted. I am not sure where to purchase seeds, there was a company in Australia that was selling them.
In northern CA the rains have caused an explosion of spurge in my yard. I expect the entire west coast is popping. |
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KMWS
18 Posts |
Posted - 01/18/2017 : 15:25:18
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| I received some seeds from Catherine Bonadio <cathib5@gmail.com>! [She was very helpful, I hope she doesn't mind me posting her email address] I have found that the recommended 3-7 days treatment with Petty Surge wasn't enough for my Basal Cell Carcinoma because it came back several month later. I have found that you must keep applying the Petty Surge sap until it noticeably stops reacting, because then all the cancer should be gone, but instead it starts healing. You will probably have a small crater where the Petty Surge sap has killed the cancer [See some of the photos on this site], but it will heal with very little scaring. Good luck! |
Edited by - KMWS on 01/19/2017 14:12:21 |
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KMWS
18 Posts |
Posted - 01/18/2017 : 15:37:46
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| I have also found the the Petty Surge sap won't reach the cancer cells if a scab has formed. The scab is a protective barrier for any sore to prevent infection. Therefore, one must remove the scab which can be painful to just pull it off. To easily remove the scab one can use hot compresses until the scab is loose enough to be easily removed. I prefer a concoction of coconut-oil and baking soda to form a paste to dissolve the scab without any pain, only a little tingling. Baking soda treats cancer by alkalizing the area to kill the cancer cells. This change in pH also helps reverse the growth of cancerous cells and heals your body. |
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judo
33 Posts |
Posted - 01/18/2017 : 16:21:36
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| Mine also came back after the recommended 3 days application. KMWS had yours now stayed away? How long did you use it for? |
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BobCA
43 Posts |
Posted - 01/18/2017 : 16:24:00
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| I'm not going to dispute how you personally wish to use Euphorbia Peplus but please keep in mind that Ingenol Mebutate works by killing rapidly dividing cells. This is what differentiates normal cells from cancel cells but be aware the new cells, the ones that are replacing the killed cells, are also rapidly dividing. Continued use of spurge will kill the new cells and you'll end up with a lot of cell death. Clinically, Ingeniol Mebutate is used for surface actinic keratosis or surface squamous cell cancers. Asking it to go deep to root out non-surface basal cell carcinoma may be asking a bit much. Just my opinion. |
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IanL
7 Posts |
Posted - 01/18/2017 : 16:56:35
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I'm with Bob on this one. I once treated a growth for over a week and still have a small scar to prove it. I find that if a scab forms after 3 days of treatment then the sap has done its job. I have had a handful of stubborn basal cell carcinomas return so I treat them again. Haven't had to treat them more than twice.
Someone was looking for that contact in Australia that sells the seeds? Here's two sources for you. One is in Queensland, the other in Western Australia.
http://www.radiumweed.com.au/
http://www.bodyplantsaus.com/
I used the second company because they are in the same state where I live. Pretty sure they also ship internationally. Good luck with that!
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KMWS
18 Posts |
Posted - 01/19/2017 : 14:31:59
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| I guess it depends how large one's Basal Cell Carcinoma is on how long one needs to treat it. My Basal Cell Carcinoma was about a half inch in diameter on my chin. That is a lot larger than some of the Basal Cell Carcinomas shown in the photos on this site, so it probably needed more time to treat it. I was determined to get rid of it so I didn't have to go under the knife because I saw the damage Dermatologist did on some of my friends. After my Basal Cell Carcinoma came back 5 times I treated it with everything natural I got my hands on: Petty Surge until it stopped reacting; a concoction of coconut-oil + baking soda + vitamin D3 to remove the scab so the Petty Surge could reach the BCC; and than eggplant + organic apple cider vinegar + Aloe Vera Sap all blended up to help the sore created to heal. So far so good, but since I really knocked down the BCC this time it might take awhile for it to come back. Only time will tell??? |
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waverider
76 Posts |
Posted - 01/20/2017 : 08:54:43
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| Of course possible recurrence of BCC is not limited to treatments like petty spurge. It's also a frequent result after going the conventional surgery route, too. Recurrence is not unknown even after Mohs surgery. There's really no guaranteed single knock-out punch where you can just forget about it forever. In my opinion ... |
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waverider
76 Posts |
Posted - 01/20/2017 : 08:56:45
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quote:
Originally posted by BobCA
In northern CA the rains have caused an explosion of spurge in my yard. I expect the entire west coast is popping.
Down here in SoCal, as well. I was recently tempted to post a message just telling everyone on the west coast: If you've ever wanted to grow petty spurge, this is the year to do it! Plant now. Cool weather, frequent rain and only partial sun, this is what it loves. As opposed to recent sunny drought years where it was very difficult to get it growing and keeping it growing for any length of time was almost impossible. |
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Michaelpontian
1 Posts |
Posted - 02/26/2017 : 01:56:34
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Hi.. Does anyone have experience with dealing with an scc on their lip with radium weed?
I have been reading mine for 7 months and about 70% has gone in first two months but last few months nothing has changed. Any advise? |
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BobCA
43 Posts |
Posted - 03/04/2017 : 17:44:40
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Thought this might help. You can see that Petty SPurge can work well on AKs and some surface Basal and Squamous cell carcinomas. If the cancer gets too invasive a pro should probably handle it. AKs so come back and repeated hitting with PS will help keep them from developing into cancers.
Image Insert:
154.15 KB |
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KMWS
18 Posts |
Posted - 03/06/2017 : 15:11:00
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quote:
Originally posted by BobCA
Thought this might help. You can see that Petty SPurge can work well on AKs and some surface Basal and Squamous cell carcinomas. If the cancer gets too invasive a pro should probably handle it. AKs so come back and repeated hitting with PS will help keep them from developing into cancers.
Image Insert:
154.15 KB
BOB, could you please post the link to your image because I can't read the captions it is so small and when I enlarge the image it becomes too blurry to read? Thanks!
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BobCA
43 Posts |
Posted - 03/06/2017 : 16:00:05
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| I took this pic in my derms office but I can email it to you if you provide an email. |
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BobCA
43 Posts |
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BobCA
43 Posts |
Posted - 03/27/2017 : 00:21:38
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| I encourage all users of Petty Spurge to Google this article: "FDA Warns About Safety Risks for Ingenol Mebutate". It provides some excellent guidance and warnings. |
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anivoc
668 Posts |
Posted - 04/08/2017 : 18:36:56
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Thanks for the heads up Bob
Click Here to go to the article.
It appears firstly the FDA is only approving this for Actenic Keratosis AK's which is a pre cancer ...I have read many reports of success with Basal Carcinoma.
AK's are pretty easy to knock out with some of the topicals we use here including Vinegar , cymillium and orange oil.
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anivoc
668 Posts |
Posted - 04/08/2017 : 19:10:45
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Another larger version of the skin cancer poster
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KMWS
18 Posts |
Posted - 04/09/2017 : 17:33:49
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One very important point mentioned in the article suggested by BobCA and linked by anivoc is that PS shouldn't be applied on an area more than 2 inches by 2 inches
and more than one area at a time. Also BobCA told me that PS strength is strongest in the Spring. I had a very severe reaction with just one application of Spring PS
to both of my earlobes to test for any reaction for for the indication of BCC. My earlobes turned very red like a bad sunburn and felt like they were on fire.
The skin peeled like a sunburn but healed in a week. I have been successful in curing small BCC's, but larger Bcc's should be taken care of by a Dermatologist. |
Edited by - KMWS on 04/09/2017 17:36:27 |
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waverider
76 Posts |
Posted - 04/10/2017 : 14:30:52
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| I wonder how the listed concentration of Ingenol Mebutate in Picato compares to what one gets from a drop of freshly cut, natural Petty Spurge sap? If the plants are robust and healthy I wonder if its a much more potent dose than what's in Picato RX. Or not? I tend to think the natural stuff straight from the source is more powerful but I could be wrong. Just wondering... |
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BobCA
43 Posts |
Posted - 04/10/2017 : 14:44:22
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I tried to find some research papers quantifying the potency of IM in PS but didn't have much luck. The advantage of Picato is that we know it is always the optimal clinical strength for the area of application and that it is purified. Picato is stronger for application cation sites on the body and less concentrated for the face. The downside is that it that Picato can cost $700 per treatment and is usually not covered by insurance, yet.
I would say the PS sap is probably more concentrated and I've also found, just by trial and error, that spring time plants appear to be more concentrated. Go slowly when using PS, stick to small areas until you know how you'll react and lint the use to three days. If you need a second application then let the area heal and hit it again until the reaction is only slightly red. Even with Picato some people have reported a strong reaction so everyone is different. |
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agare
17 Posts |
Posted - 04/11/2017 : 07:31:54
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| Just to report another success. This time a basal cell carcinoma in the middle of my back. In previous posts I recommended applying the sap three days in a row, then after a month doing the same thing again. Because I couldn't reach my back and had to rely on my wife, I did not follow up after a month. The only thing I did differently was apply tea tree oil cream after the petty spurge sap because I thought it would keep the sap in place and enable it to penetrate better, and the tea tree oil might assist since studies with tea-tree oil and DMSO have been shown to be effective for treatment. The downside of this was that on the third day, adding the cream was very painful. Both BCCs that I have successfully treated were a good 2 inches by 2 inches. My doctor approved of what I was doing (although he did not approve using the sap with a nodular BCC on my face). The doctor said that if an operation were required, the BCCs were so big the treatment would require skin grafts. Anyway, after 8 months my skin is completely clear. |
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waverider
76 Posts |
Posted - 04/11/2017 : 15:02:55
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| Super! Another success story. PS has literally always worked for me on BCC. Glad to add Tea Tree Cream to the arsenal, too. Eventually, the most effective combo will be refined through trial-and-error DIY experience. Based on yours, mine and other's reports, I think the three-day treatment is pretty much the current standard of care for PS ... unless or until somebody gives persuasive evidence for going beyond that. More is apparently not better. |
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dan
611 Posts |
Posted - 04/11/2017 : 19:26:45
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| agare, I am happy to see another success story too! In order to help others that may be following, can you describe the pain you experienced? Did the pain persist beyond a half hour, a day, a week? Can you also provide a brand name for the tea tree oil cream? And just to be certain, can you confirm that DMSO was not part of the remedy? Congrats and thanks! |
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Petty Spurge Herb sap for skin cancers
