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 Bloodroot / Zinc Chloride Paste / Black Salve
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getrealpeople

6 Posts

Posted - 02/13/2014 :  12:00:55  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Wow, what can i say but wow.

Hoxsey, I'm so sorry you went through this, I'm so sorry that there are people in this world who are so evil or so deluded that they market this product, Black Salve, as a safe and effective cure for cancer.

I can totally see why you were sucked in. The people making money off this stuff are very clever and pick on desperate people who will do anything to stay alive when faced with possible death from cancer.
But Hoxsey, after all you've put yourself through, how can you still be advocating this stuff. Is losing the end of your nose not enough to convince you that this stuff is not what it is claimed to be?

Here is a fact for you. Black Salve can not tell the difference between healthy cells and cancerous cells. That is a fact!

It is simply a highly caustic substance that will burn any flesh it comes into contact with. If you want to argue this fact with me then here is how you can do it. If you believe Black Salve will not kill healthy cells, then apply a patch of it to some skin you know to be healthy, leave it on for 24 hours in the same manor you would treat a cancer and see what happens. I will bet any amount of money that you will end up with a large burn and the skin would react in exactly the same way as it would to cancerous skin. The reason it reacts so much worse on the face is that the skin on your face is much more sensetive than other areas.

Unless you are prepared to do this do not waste your time trying to convince me or anyone else that Black Salve can somehow tell the difference between healthy and cancerous skin.

If you've just read through this blog and are thinking about using black salve I bet you are desperately wanting to see the pictures that Hoxsey had posted but has now removed. Well in the interest of public safety I will now post those picture. I'm sorry if this upsets Hoxsey, I have cropped the photos so she cannot be identified, but I feel it is important for people to see these so they can see just how corrosive this stuff is.

Hoxsey, I know you want to believe that this stuff really works, and that for some reason, like all the skin on your nose was pre-cancerous and thats why it burnt so bad. Because if you accept it doesn't work and it is just a caustic substance that burns anything it comes into contact with, you will have to accept that you have been conned, and bought into a lie that has caused you to permanently disfigure your face when standard medical practice could have removed the cells and only left minor, if any scaring. But Hoxsey, wake up, you of all people should be warning others of the dangers, not still defending this snake oil.

Remember people, there was only a small patch of pre-cancerous cells on the end of her nose, and this is what the Black Salve did to her





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Edited by - getrealpeople on 02/13/2014 12:25:01
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getrealpeople

6 Posts

Posted - 02/13/2014 :  12:59:42  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by djt10

If science is your god, god help you.

The only "proof" out there is the horrendous, well-documented outcome of conventional cancer treatments. Statistically, we are in far worse shape now as a nation than when the "war on cancer" began decades ago. A 2.1% "success" rate (survival at 5 years) for chemotherapy, compared to a 5% survival rate for doing absolutely nothing (spontaneous recovery) tells the whole story. Happily, there are scientific studies and research supporting the effectiveness of bloodroot on cancer cells specifically, and at least one study done on a cohort of cancer patients using salve (over 5 thousand, I believe)successfully.



It's all very well posting stats like that but I'm calling BS unless you can direct me to the studies that back up these claims so I can verify them

Here's some facts for you
Blood Root
Toxicity to animal cells[edit]
Sanguinarine kills animal cells by blocking the action of Na+/K+-ATPase transmembrane proteins. As a result, applying bloodroot to the skin may destroy tissue and lead to the formation of a large scab, called an eschar. Bloodroot and its extracts are thus considered escharotic.

Zinc Chloride
Zinc chloride is a skin and respiratory irritant according to its MSDS.[40] Precautions that apply to anhydrous ZnCl2 are those applicable to other anhydrous metal halides, i.e. hydrolysis can be exothermic and contact should be avoided. Concentrated solutions are acidic and corrosive, and specifically attack cellulose and silk as Lewis acids.[41]
Zinc chloride fume has occupational exposure limits set, as the Occupational Safety and Health Administration and the National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health have both set limits at 1 mg/m3 over an eight time-weighted average. A short-term exposure limit for exposure is set at 2 mg/m3.[42] An Immediately Dangerous to Life and Health explosure is set at 50 mg/m3.[43]

Edited by - getrealpeople on 02/13/2014 13:07:08
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Bwakul

Australia
21 Posts

Posted - 02/15/2014 :  05:51:43  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I thought it might be beneficial to post this, as most will not have free access to this journal article from The Journal of Alternative and Complementary Medicine.

I recommend reading the complete article. Some fascinating remarks about Mohs.

A Review of Topical Corrosive Black Salve
Kristin L. Eastman, MD,1,2 Lynne V. McFarland, PhD,2 and Gregory J. Raugi, MD2,3


ABSTRACT

Black salve is a compound derived from various inert ingredients, but it can be transformed into a corrosive ointment by the addition of bloodroot (Sanguinaria canadensis) or zinc chloride. Black salve products have been advertised as a natural remedy for many ailments, ranging from bee stings to skin cancer. This article reviews the current literature surrounding this compound, which in its corrosive form can be dangerous for use without medical supervision. Patients should be educated about the lack of objective evidence supporting the clinical efficacy of black salve as a skin cancer treatment, as well as the possible cosmetic defects resulting from tissue necrosis secondary to the effects of bloodroot and zinc chloride.

INTRODUCTION

Black salve topical products are used as an alternative therapy for everything from boils and bug bites to warts and skin cancer. Widespread use of the Internet has allowed for easy dissemination of non–peer-reviewed information on alternative therapies, often referring to anecdotal reports rather than objective, peer-reviewed studies. Additionally, it is questionable whether the original lesions referred to in testimonials were truly skin cancer because many lack documented biopsy results to confirm a cancer diagnosis. This reliance on anecdotal reports may lead patients to use a black salve product that is not scientifically proven to reliably cure skin cancer and can potentially lead to disastrous complications.

The components of black salve vary widely, from a combination of various innocuous ingredients to inclusion of bloodroot (Sanguinaria canadensis) or zinc chloride, which results in a corrosive topical agent capable of indiscriminately damaging healthy and diseased tissue alike and forming eschar (sloughed dead tissue). It is this escharotic form that has been marketed as an alternative skin cancer treatment, and although numerous testimonials exist, references about the clinical efficacy and associated risks are scarce. Common names of these corrosive black salve products include Can-X, CentreForce (formerly Cansema), Curaderm, HerbVeil8, Hoxsey's dark red paste, Mexican black salve, and PureCents.

Although black salve has a reputation as being an alternative treatment, its history includes significant roots in allopathic medicine. Frederic E. Mohs, the originator of Mohs micrographic surgery for skin cancer treatment, first performed the surgery using a fixed-tissue technique using a paste composed of stibnite (antimony sulfide), bloodroot extract (S. canadensis), and zinc chloride applied to the tissue to be excised.1 In 1944, Mohs patented the paste and signed all rights over to the Wisconsin Alumni Research Foundation for $1. Dr. Mohs explained, “The purpose of patenting was to prevent others from doing so and selling [the paste] indiscriminately to persons not trained to use it with complete microscopic control.”1 He went on to make arrangements to ensure that the fixative was supplied only to physicians certified to use it properly.

The use of this fixative in Mohs micrographic surgery fell out of favor in the 1970s, when multiple investigators, including Mohs himself, discovered the fresh-tissue technique was equivalent to the fixed-tissue technique for cancer clearance1,2 yet was completed in 1 day, while the fixed-tissue technique took an average of 3–5 days.3

Around the same time of Dr. Mohs' discoveries, Harry Hoxsey, a self-proclaimed healer, marketed and sold a similar escharotic paste as a cancer remedy. Hoxsey eventually opened 17 clinics in the United States, promoting his “Hoxsey Cancer Treatment,” although he lacked objective evidence that any of his patients were indeed cured of skin cancer.4,5 Eventually the sale of the Hoxsey Treatment was banned and his U.S. clinics shut down. One clinic in Tijuana, Mexico, established in 1963, remains operational today and still offers Hoxsey therapy.

This article reviews the literature for the benefits and risks of corrosive black salve use. This review is intended to educate providers and patients on current black salve literature and to warn providers about the potential dangers for patients engaging in unmonitored use of escharotic black salve.

ESCHAROTIC AGENTS

The two most common escharotic agents used in modern black salve preparations are bloodroot (S. canadensis) and zinc chloride. Bloodroot, a perennial plant native to eastern North America, was originally mixed with onions by the Native Americans to create an escharotic paste. Bloodroot contains the alkaloid sanguinarine, which causes oxidative DNA damage and apoptosis, thus leading to tissue necrosis.6,7 Two independent studies suggest that sanguinarine contains anticancer properties; these studies found that (1) sanguinarine shows differential binding to various polymorphic nucleic acid conformations8 and (2) at micromolar concentrations it preferentially induces apoptosis in human squamous carcinoma cells over normal human epidermal keratinocytes.9 It is important to note that the differential response of cancer and normal cells to sanguinarine is only at very low doses. Typical bloodroot black salve preparations contain high doses of sanguinarine, which lead to the indiscriminate death of normal and cancerous cells alike and result in extensive tissue necrosis with possible secondary necrotizing vasculitis.10

Zinc chloride was popularized as an escharotic cancer treatment in the early 19th century by Canquoin of Paris, Bougard of Brussels, and Dr. J. Weldon Fell. It was then repopularized by Dr. Frederic Mohs in the 1940s. Dr. Mohs is credited with discovering that zinc chloride causes in vivo fixation, preserving the histologic tissue architecture. These discoveries were the basis for use of zinc chloride in modern-day escharotic pastes, although the exact mechanism of zinc chloride–induced necrosis remains unclear.

PRODUCTION & REGULATION

The U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) does not oversee the manufacturing of herbal supplements but does monitor their marketing. Manufacturers and distributors are not obligated to disclose to the FDA or consumers what evidence they have to support their product's safety or claims before putting their products on the market. However, if products claim to cure, treat, mitigate, or prevent disease and are not proven safe and effective for their labeled use, they are considered unapproved new drugs marketed in violation of the Federal Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act.11 Beginning in 2008, the FDA has collaborated with the Federal Trade Commission to prevent the sale of fraudulent cancer cures by sending warning letters to companies illegally claiming that their product, including black salve, can be used to treat cancer on their websites.12,13 Because of the rapidly changing content available on the Internet, it is difficult for the FDA to eradicate all false claims about black salve. At the time of this review, a simple Internet search yielded websites claiming black salve “completely eliminates abnormal tissue”14 and “can be applied safely to healthy skin tissue, even sensitive skin.…[It] does not affect healthy tissue, only neoplastic (cancerous) cells.”15

Despite regulation efforts, the public continues to have easy access to these ointments advertised as a cancer cure through do-it-yourself Internet recipes, Internet and local distributers, gifts from friends or relatives, and products brought back from trips abroad. To circumvent some of the barriers imposed by regulatory agencies, “animal” black salve products are being marketed and sold with manufacturer admissions that the ingredients for the banned human version and available animal version of their products are the same.16

These compounds are subject to poor quality control and may contain a wide range of active and inactive ingredient concentrations. Beyond manufacturer variation, Graf and colleagues (2007) reported that sanguinarine concentration varies between wildcrafted and cultivated bloodroot.17 Cultivated bloodroot has a slightly lower absolute concentration of sanguinarine (2.25–2.75#8201;mg/100#8201;mg dried rhizome) compared with wildcrafted bloodroot (2.81–3.96#8201;mg/100#8201;mg dried rhizome). Furthermore, the concentration of sanguinarine in wildcrafted bloodroot varies seasonally, being highest in early spring.17 Therefore, the concentration of the escharotic agent, sanguinarine, is variable depending on how the bloodroot was grown and what time of year it was harvested.

CLINICAL OUTCOMES

Although laboratory evidence documents anticarcinogenic effects of black salve ingredients (bloodroot and zinc chloride), no randomized clinical trials on the efficacy and safety of black salve products have been published. Lacking randomized clinical trials, the evidence for any benefits of black salve comes from published case reports, as shown in Table 1,18–26 which details a spectrum of outcomes ranging from patient satisfaction,18,19 unacceptable scarring,20–22 to invasive recurrent tumor21,23 to ulcer complications26 to death due to delayed definitive treatment.21,24 Following are examples of published case reports describing the range of patient experiences

Table 1. Published Black Salve Case Reports

A 51-year-old man who presented with a confirmed basal cell carcinoma on his nasal tip was offered Mohs micrographic surgery. Instead he preferred to self-treat the lesion with a bloodroot-based salve. After eschar formation and subsequent secondary intention healing, he was left with a depressed, irregular scar on the nasal tip and a fair cosmetic outcome. Twelve months after the bloodroot salve treatment tumor had not recurred, but he remains under long-term surveillance because there was no definitive proof (i.e., histology) that the tumor was completely eradicated.26

A previously published case letter by the current authors details a patient who used a corrosive black salve product for a self-diagnosed skin cancer on the left side of his nose. The treatment resulted in necrosis and permanent loss of his left ala (Fig. 1). However, despite his cosmetic defect, the patient continued to support the use of black salve for skin cancer. Since his black salve use 11 years ago, there has been no tumor recurrence on or near the left side of his nose.18 A similar report by Saltzberg and colleagues also describes the complete loss of the nasal ala due to black salve use.22

Metastasis of basal cell carcinoma is uncommon (<1%), but the frequency of metastasis increases according to the size of the primary cancer (up to 50% for tumors >10#8201;cm in diameter).27 An example of this is a case of a 52-year-old man who originally presented with a biopsy-proven basal cell carcinoma of the left side of his nose. In lieu of definitive surgery to remove the tumor, he elected to treat it with black salve, which achieved apparent clinical resolution. However, 11 years later, the cancer recurred in the same area and penetrated to a level that necessitated two stages of Mohs micrographic surgery, a partial maxillectomy, a radical neck lymphadenectomy, and radiation therapy. The cancer subsequently metastasized to distant bony sites, and despite systemic chemotherapy the patient died.24 Whether the recurrence was due to a failure of black salve to remove all residual cancer cells or to a new occurrence of cancer is unknown. Basal cell carcinoma rarely spreads to the bone, but this metastasis has been reported by others.28

STANDARD THERAPY

Surgical excision, electrodessication and curettage, and Mohs micrographic surgery are the current standards of care for skin cancer treatment. It should be recognized that the standard of care, although an excellent management strategy, is imperfect for several reasons: 1) If a lesion is assumed to be contiguous, islands of residual tumor may possibly be left behind in the normal tissue; 2) time constraints in performing Mohs surgery do not allow for routine use of immunostains and cell markers, thus causing some tumor types to be difficult to identify microscopically and possibly overlooked;29 and 3) the health care provider may make technical errors. No skin cancer treatment is curative 100% of the time, but the high success rate of these techniques, in addition to other factors outlined in Table 2, makes the standard of care a superior choice over corrosive black salve.30–33

The scarring that results from initial black salve treatment can obscure the tumor and disrupt the lesion continuity that is essential for optimal surgical performance. Therefore, surgical treatment is best used as a first-line treatment and not as a second-line treatment after black salve therapy.

Table 2. Comparison of Black Salve with Mohs Micrographic Surgery

RISKS

One risk that accompanies self-treating with corrosive black salve is the patient's belief that clinical resolution of the lesion equates to histopathologic clearance of the lesion, which it does not. Because of the escharotic character of black salve, this treatment may destroy both cancerous skin and healthy skin to a degree that eradicates the local cancer.20 However, without proper evaluation, which includes a conclusive biopsy, there can be no guarantee that all the cancer cells have been completely eliminated. If residual cancer cells are present after treatment, the cancer will recur; the lesion may then require excision or the cancer may metastasize to other sites in the body.21,24 In addition, if suspicious lesions are not biopsied to rule out cancer, the corrosive salve may cause unnecessary skin damage in the case of a benign mole or lesion. Self-treatment with corrosive black salve may also result in a substantial delay in definitive diagnosis and surgical treatment of melanoma, which increases the risk of metastasis or deeper penetration of the lesion.21,24,25

Many black salve users do not understand the potential consequences of this product. Health care providers should communicate clearly that although black salve is labeled as “natural,” the salve is not necessarily safe or harmless. Providers should maintain an open dialogue with patients who are interested in using these products and thoroughly educate them on the risks, the range of aesthetic outcomes, and allopathic treatment options. Escharotics may potentially lead to elimination of all tumor cells, but patients may not be satisfied with the cosmetic outcome and choose to undergo scar revision surgery, as other dissatisfied patients have.20,21

CONCLUSIONS

Given the wide range of available skin cancer treatment options, some patients prefer naturopathic/homeopathic treatment regimens, such as black salve, over the current standard of care of surgery or electrodesiccation and curettage. However, the modern public may not fully understand the lack of objective data on the efficacy of black salve products in predictably curing skin cancer. They may also be unfamiliar with the potential risks associated with this corrosive compound, such as significant cosmetic defect, unconfirmed clearance of all cancer cells, and cancer recurrence or spread.

Because of the widespread availability of black salve products, providers should be familiar with this compound and its potential dangers. It is important to keep an open dialogue with patients about alternative medicine, while striving to effectively impart evidence-based information for the patient's decision-making process. Although patients should be appropriately counseled about their treatment options, providers must ultimately respect a patient's autonomy to choose the course of treatment.

As evidenced here, a variety of outcomes are possible after the use of corrosive black salve, ranging from patient satisfaction and cancer eradication to significant morbidity, suboptimal treatment, and death.18–25

The difficulty lies with the unpredictability of patient use, varied product quality, inconsistent user directions, and lack of regulation surrounding this compound. Such unpredictability puts patients at increased risk of adverse outcomes and is unnecessary in a time when the standard of care is scientifically proven to be safe, predictable, and effective in cancer eradication. It is important to note that Dr. Mohs patented his salve to prevent the widespread use of a potentially dangerous topical treatment by untrained persons; however, today this is exactly what is happening with the unregulated distribution of escharotic agents for unmonitored home use by the general public.1

The concept of black salve as a cancer treatment is not unfounded, as some escharotics agents have been shown to have anticarcinogenic properties, but randomized controlled trials comparing them to standard therapies are lacking.23,34 A small, preliminary clinical trial comparing trichloroacetic acid (another type of escharotic agent) with other types of treatments has shown promise for reducing the development of nonmelanoma skin cancer.35 Because of the documented corrosive nature of black salve, enough tissue necrosis can occur to eradicate cancerous cells; however, the resultant collateral damage to surrounding normal tissue can be unacceptable and unsafe and does not constitute optimal medical care.1,10,20–25 Sanguinarine possesses the potential for development as a topical skin cancer treatment as a result of the differential response of squamous carcinoma cells and epidermal keratinocytes documented by Ahmad and colleagues.9 However, more investigation is needed to determine its safety, the optimal concentration necessary to target cancer cells while minimizing damage to normal cells, and its efficacy as a topical chemotherapy. In the future, we recommend randomized, double-blinded clinical trials testing the efficacy, safety, and therapeutic dose of sanguinarine for topical treatment of skin cancer.






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djt10

USA
48 Posts

Posted - 02/15/2014 :  13:57:13  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Did someone miss something? Zinc Chloride is corrosive to organic materials all right--cellulose and silk. Cellulose is what's found in plant cells, and not in normal human cells ...except in human cell walls that have become plantlike, meaning fungal. There is something in cancer cell walls closely related to a fungal structure. This suggests that salve is able to break down abnormal cell walls so that bloodroot can get to the cancer.

Anyone who has watched the salve process carefully and as many times as I have for myself and different family members and friends knows that applying salve to healthy skin with nothing underneath gets no results other than maybe a faint pinkness. When there's something on top of the skin, of course. When it's beneath, it has to absorb into the tissues and it's only when morbid material comes to the surface and breaks through that surface tissue is eaten up, the same as a boil or any skin eruption would cause. In fact, to go after internal things, I always used a sterilized needle to prick the surface of the skin where salve is applied because of the difficulty in having it absorb through healthy skin, and even then it's not immediate. Does someone actually believe that a substance corrosive to skin would take several days to eat through it from the outside? It just doesn't happen that way. And many people take it internally (a tiny bit of salve in a capsule) or in the form of bloodroot capsules or pills with no action on the stomach or bowels.

If you want to risk releasing cancer cells into the bloodstream, by all means, have a needle biopsy. Cutting or puncturing into a cancer is always such a good idea.

And just who is going to allow or finance randomized, double-blinded clinical trials? That is wishful thinking any rational, reasonable person can agree with. Dream on.
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Bwakul

Australia
21 Posts

Posted - 02/15/2014 :  15:48:19  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
ThAT is pseudoscience.

Do your own research on zinc chloride and fixatives. The intention is to retain the structure of the cell and prevent putrefaction but all biochemical reactions within the healthy cell cease and for all intents and purposes the tissue. Whether healthy or cancerous, is dead. Toxicity will depend on the concentration and other contents in the salve. i.e it won"t necessarily "fix" all tissue it comes into contact with.

It is notable that studies have found bloodroot to be selective for cancerous cells over healthy cells, but apparently only at low concentrations, not at those higher concentrations found in most black salve products.

It would be interesting for someone to do some in vitro work on the apparently large amount of empirical data that people experience less reaction on healthy skin than diagnosed BCCs or precancerous skin. There certainly seems to be a strong case from personal anecdotes here. I'll look further at the preclinical studies or scientific rationale for this, if there are any. A lack of published evidence doesn't mean it ain't so! I find some of your stories fascinating.

But yes, unlikely RCTs could attract funding or pass ethics approval with the patient case histories and evidence of serious adverse reactions. Add to that the high efficacy of conventional treatments. Of course, conventional treatment has it's risks too. We nearly lost my father a couple of months ago from a post surgical infection after removal of a BCC from his ear. He came close to sepsis and now has a "Spock" ear. I won't be sending him back to that particular dermatologist. I think I can sort of see why someone who has many recurring small BCCs might choose to self treat. ANIVOC - would you suggest someone with a larger BCC defer to conventional surgery due to the increased risks of not getting all the cancer, greater risk of damaging healthy tissue and especially lack of confirmed borders? Despite your experience of cancer returning.years after confirmed borders, I would think it still offers better odds?
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BlondeAmbition3

USA
53 Posts

Posted - 02/15/2014 :  21:03:27  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Ditto djt10. I've been taking internal bloodroot (30/30 ratio), since 2010 with no damage whatsoever to my internals. I've been using it since 2008 externally, and as you have stated, with NO reactions whatsoever to healthy skin tissues. My Husband, (along with other family members and friends who have tried it), can attest to this also. It's interesting that you mention 'human cell walls that have become plant-like, related to a fungal structure".... Please read what Italian Dr. Simoncini (who discovered that "Cancer is a Fungus"), has to say on this exact matter.

Cancer is fungus
by Dr. Tullio Simoncini
oncologist

Among the many books that try to give an answer to the problem, the one given by the oncologist Tullio Simoncini distinguishes itself by its simplicity and its innovative ideology.

The book “Cancer is a fungus” describes how a fungous infection always forms the basis of every neoplastic formation, and this formation tries to spread within the whole organism without stopping. The growth of the fungous colonies, together with the reaction of the tissue that tries to defend itself against the invasion, causes the tumour. This is a simple and solely extracellular phenomenon.

Therefore, there is only one cause of cancer: candida, which, according to the anatomical branch concerned causes different histological reactions. This is the reason why there are so many types of tumours.

http://cancerisafungus.com/

Nice seeing you on the Forum wall again djt10....


quote:
Originally posted by djt10

Did someone miss something? Zinc Chloride is corrosive to organic materials all right--cellulose and silk. Cellulose is what's found in plant cells, and not in normal human cells ...except in human cell walls that have become plantlike, meaning fungal. There is something in cancer cell walls closely related to a fungal structure. This suggests that salve is able to break down abnormal cell walls so that bloodroot can get to the cancer.

Anyone who has watched the salve process carefully and as many times as I have for myself and different family members and friends knows that applying salve to healthy skin with nothing underneath gets no results other than maybe a faint pinkness. When there's something on top of the skin, of course. When it's beneath, it has to absorb into the tissues and it's only when morbid material comes to the surface and breaks through that surface tissue is eaten up, the same as a boil or any skin eruption would cause. In fact, to go after internal things, I always used a sterilized needle to prick the surface of the skin where salve is applied because of the difficulty in having it absorb through healthy skin, and even then it's not immediate. Does someone actually believe that a substance corrosive to skin would take several days to eat through it from the outside? It just doesn't happen that way. And many people take it internally (a tiny bit of salve in a capsule) or in the form of bloodroot capsules or pills with no action on the stomach or bowels.

If you want to risk releasing cancer cells into the bloodstream, by all means, have a needle biopsy. Cutting or puncturing into a cancer is always such a good idea.

And just who is going to allow or finance randomized, double-blinded clinical trials? That is wishful thinking any rational, reasonable person can agree with. Dream on.

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Nanoagain

35 Posts

Posted - 02/16/2014 :  10:20:53  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
So:

Conventional treatment: lesion may recur if all cancerous areas are not treated

Black Salve treatment: lesion may recur if all cancerous areas are not treated

Conventional treatment: cosmetic outcome may be less than optional per skill of provider

Black Salve treatment: cosmetic outcome may be less than optional per skill of provider

Conventional treatment: cancer may metastasize

Black Salve treatment: cancer may metastasize

If you are happy with conventional treatment, you should continue with conventional treatment. if black salve scares you, then don't use it.

Did you use black salve yourself on your skin cancer and get a bad result?

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Carole

15 Posts

Posted - 02/16/2014 :  13:58:35  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Excellent description of the options, Nanoagain! The wonderful thing is that yet Americans are still able to choose which option is the best for them personally. The sad part is that there are some who would take the choice away. Why not just live and let live and quit trying to tell someone else what is best for them?!
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BlondeAmbition3

USA
53 Posts

Posted - 02/16/2014 :  22:34:23  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Well said.

quote:
Originally posted by Nanoagain

So:

Conventional treatment: lesion may recur if all cancerous areas are not treated

Black Salve treatment: lesion may recur if all cancerous areas are not treated

Conventional treatment: cosmetic outcome may be less than optional per skill of provider

Black Salve treatment: cosmetic outcome may be less than optional per skill of provider

Conventional treatment: cancer may metastasize

Black Salve treatment: cancer may metastasize

If you are happy with conventional treatment, you should continue with conventional treatment. if black salve scares you, then don't use it.

Did you use black salve yourself on your skin cancer and get a bad result?



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BlondeAmbition3

USA
53 Posts

Posted - 02/16/2014 :  22:41:08  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Beautifully articulated Carole!



quote:
Originally posted by Carole

Excellent description of the options, Nanoagain! The wonderful thing is that yet Americans are still able to choose which option is the best for them personally. The sad part is that there are some who would take the choice away. Why not just live and let live and quit trying to tell someone else what is best for them?!

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SRM

1 Posts

Posted - 02/19/2014 :  19:09:59  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Wow, Hoxsey...you are amazing!! I am both humbled and inspired by your courage and your attitude after taking so many knocks on your journey. I wonder if you realize how truly amazing you are! I hope good things come your way :)

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setherd

1 Posts

Posted - 03/17/2014 :  08:29:02  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I was wondering what else besides cancer black salve / bloodroot works on.
I had some black salve from a cancer scare I had about a year ago. (wasn't cancer, was a erupting blood vessel on my neck, weird)
I recently had what I thought was a large pimple on my stomach. I put some black salve on it and well it worked like you see in pictures. I didn't have the pain that people describe though.
This morning taking a shower the eschar fell out. very small less than 1cm
I don't think it was cancer. anyone hear of it working on just a plain old infection? I'll try to post pics later.

thanks!
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Carole

15 Posts

Posted - 03/17/2014 :  11:23:21  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
A couple of years ago a naturopathic doctor recommended to me that I use Black Salve for 1-2 months to clean up my blood stream. At that time I tried to use it internally and my GI system wouldn't handle it. I had previously used it for at least two months without any problems; however, this was a about two years after having kidney cancer and at that time I was very ill.
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getrealpeople

6 Posts

Posted - 03/17/2014 :  14:06:27  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by djt10

Did someone miss something? Zinc Chloride is corrosive to organic materials all right--cellulose and silk. Cellulose is what's found in plant cells, and not in normal human cells ...except in human cell walls that have become plantlike, meaning fungal. There is something in cancer cell walls closely related to a fungal structure. This suggests that salve is able to break down abnormal cell walls so that bloodroot can get to the cancer.


No Cancer is really not fungle, thats the dumbest thing i've ever heard. it's simply normal cells growing out of control. fact! Your crazy buying into the nonsense promoted by one doctor who has been struck off and convicted by an Italian judge for wrongful death and swindling

quote:
Originally posted by djt10
Does someone actually believe that a substance corrosive to skin would take several days to eat through it from the outside? It just doesn't happen that way.


Yes, pretty much all burns whether heat, cold or chemical burn from the inside as the outer layers of skin are much tougher, the heat or chemical seeps into the skin and causes more damage to the deeper layers. fact. If you don't understand simple things like this you clearly should not be offering any medical advice.

quote:
Originally posted by djt10
If you want to risk releasing cancer cells into the bloodstream, by all means, have a needle biopsy. Cutting or puncturing into a cancer is always such a good idea.


Nonsense, cancer does not work like this and seeing as you promote puncturing the skin with needles to get black salve in you risk this all the time, but seeing as this cant happen it doesnt matter

quote:
Originally posted by djt10
And just who is going to allow or finance randomized, double-blinded clinical trials? That is wishful thinking any rational, reasonable person can agree with. Dream on.


Actually if there was any evidence to support your claims these trails would have happened a long time ago as they have with many other proven natural remedies.

The holes in you knowledge/ logic/ arguments are so big it's beyond laughable. it's just so sad that people desperate for hope will buy into your nonsense snake oil cures and harm themselves or worse
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getrealpeople

6 Posts

Posted - 03/17/2014 :  14:24:14  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Carole

Excellent description of the options, Nanoagain! The wonderful thing is that yet Americans are still able to choose which option is the best for them personally. The sad part is that there are some who would take the choice away. Why not just live and let live and quit trying to tell someone else what is best for them?!



I don't want to take anyones choice away, i don't even want black salve banned, i just want people to stop promoting unproven nonsense about it and tell it how it is. Until someone can put together a proper peer reviewed study and trails to prove it's effectiveness and the claims that it can tell the difference between healthy and unhealthy cells people need to accept that this is simply a caustic substance that does nothing more than burn the cancer out but will also burn healthy cells and can cause disfiguring injuries like Hoxsey suffered.

There is a reason science needs to be based on peer reviewed studies, it's to stop someone from promoting a cure that doesn't work purely for profit. It's the age old snake oil scam, a scam you have all bought into because your desperate to believe that anything to do with mainstream medicine is a lie and that the natural way is best. Well if thats so how comes life expectancy and cures for a huge number of
diseases are now far greater than they were hundreds of years ago before modern medicine came about?

There's nothing wrong with natural remedies and alternative treatments as long as they don't stop people from getting the treatment they need, and unfortunately due to the fact that black slave promotors and such like use scare tactics not based on fact to stop people seeking proper medical treatment people are hurt and die
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anivoc

643 Posts

Posted - 03/17/2014 :  17:42:34  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Getrealpeople... It gets old when the facts are right here in these threads for anyone to read....but for some reason some just seem to either be oblivious to them, ignore them and just bang on their own drum.

I strongly encourage you to take the 10 or so minutes it will take you to become properly informed about bloodroot paste ( Zinc Chloride paste) before trying to preach here about.

To be very clear I have been a topicalinfo member here for years...I don't sell this stuff or any of the other supplements or protocols discussed here...I'm just one of the lucky skin cancer gene pool lottery winners..so there is no monetary motivation for me to defend this stuff...trust me when I say...it's not even close to "snake oil"... the stuff works and works extremely well..There have been peer reviewed studies and in fact there are some real live medically trained and licensed American doctors that are actually using blood root paste today. Not to mention plenty of veterinarians for sarcomas on horses.

One of the first things I did before using bloodroot paste, the same as thousands of others have done prior to trying was place some of the same salve on a known to be healthy patch of skin (where the sun don't shine) for 24 hours..

ZERO effect ...nada...

However in just one minute on a biopsied basal cell and I was saying Holy Moses! The stuff is powerful and is a very good option. It would be nice if the average derms around the world were more educated about it and we could all just go to them to get treated..sadly most are as unaware of its efficacy as you are...so HERE is the link to THE TRUTH ABOUT BLOODROOT Paste Do yourself and the rest of us here a favor and read through it so if you choose to continue to speak on the subject you can do so better informed on the matter.

Bloodroot paste is a seriously powerful approach and anyone that chooses to do it should do their own very thorough due diligence..even discuss with an informed dermatologist...if you look hard and far enough you can find them. Highly unlikely the first derm you speak to will have a clue but there are some willing to learn and some that actually use it.

Edited by - anivoc on 03/17/2014 18:05:19
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getrealpeople

6 Posts

Posted - 03/20/2014 :  15:51:10  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by anivoc



I strongly encourage you to take the 10 or so minutes it will take you to become properly informed about bloodroot paste ( Zinc Chloride paste) before trying to preach here about.




10 minutes?? I've spent hours researching this subject and from properly researched articles from qualified people. Unlike djt10 who spouts information written by a doctor who has been struck off and prosecuted for criminal wrongdoings and who's information is not back up and is laughed at by the rest of the medical community
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BlondeAmbition3

USA
53 Posts

Posted - 03/20/2014 :  17:05:59  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Really? You've spent 'hours' researching this Subject? That qualifies you as an expert then hunh?

It wasn't djt10 who spouted Dr. Tulio Simonchini's well documented surgical procedures where he clearly demonstrates in 3 days how he cured both lung and colon Cancers with simple Baking Soda & Water application directly onto Cancerous (fungal) tissues, that would be me.

I find it interesting how so many people (such as yourself), will believe all of the blatant DIS-information and lies the FDA shills plant all over the Internet, and will even come into a Forum such as this one, dedicated to helping people interested in alternative therapies, to run their mouths when they haven't even 'tested' the Product for themselves on themselves.

What is it with YOU PEOPLE? Are you all such control freaks that you can't stand anyone doing anything that YOU think is wrong?

I could care less what YOU think. What bothers me is you think everyone else should listen to you when you have no experience or credentials to back your claims whatsoever, while you sling mud at everyone else on this Board.

Unlike YOU, I've done MORE than research Bloodroot Pastes. (Which I've done since 2007... not just 'hours')..... I've been taking internal Bloodroot since 2008 with no adverse effects and I've had it everywhere on my body for up to 3 days with no reactions whatsoever on normal healthy skin. (The formulation I use is similar to Greg Caton's CANSEMA- 30% Zinc Chloride by volume).

I KNOW Bloodroot cures Cancer.... and I have Medical PROOF of it. MY Medical Proof. I know Baking Soda cures Cancer, I have a friend who has Medical Proof it cured him of his Stage 4 Prostate Cancer.

If you're a Male in this Country, you have a 50 percent chance of contracting Cancer in your lifetime.... Women, 30 percent. I actually think the chances are higher... Most of the People in my Family who contracted Cancer and went the 'conventional' route are all dead... except for myself, my little Sister, and my Mom.... We're all (past five years)survivors.

The saddest thing I've ever had to witness, is when people dismiss the truth for lies...... and then perpetuate those lies as if they're facts.


quote:
Originally posted by getrealpeople



10 minutes?? I've spent hours researching this subject and from properly researched articles from qualified people. Unlike djt10 who spouts information written by a doctor who has been struck off and prosecuted for criminal wrongdoings and who's information is not back up and is laughed at by the rest of the medical community
[/quote]
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sunblock69

Australia
1 Posts

Posted - 05/13/2014 :  15:34:49  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I have a message for "getrealpeople", and that is that while I might agree with you 100% on the potential dangers and risks of cansema, and the fact that some of the people promoting it are crooks and charlatans, the absolute wrong way to go about the discussion is the shout at people and call them idiots.

Despite the facts, and most facts are not as clear cut as we would like them to be, everyone has the right to choose what they want for their health.

I live and work in North West Australia and I have treated more skin cancers than most people will see in a lifetime. If someone wants to use topical treatment (like petty spurge, or curaderm, or even efudix) on what I think are sunspots on their arms - go right ahead, I will check it in 2 months and see if it has worked - these are safe treatments in low risk areas.

But if someone wants to use black salve, I will caution them strongly against it, especially if the skin lesion hasn't been checked or biopsied. I can usually propose a better treatment - often just curretting and burning with a diathermy. It heals more rapidly, and I have at least 95% cure rate, and I can use it safely around sensitive areas like the nose and eyelids.

I don't lecture them or call them stupid, I just provide them with what I think are the facts from my experience, and if they want to choose differently, they have my 100% support, because they are have the same rights as me.

So my advice to "getreal.... " is to treat people and their views with respect, even if you think they are wrong
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anivoc

643 Posts

Posted - 05/13/2014 :  19:18:40  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by getrealpeople
10 minutes?? I've spent hours researching this subject and from properly researched articles from qualified people.



Yes 10 minutes reading the very real and valid information I posted Here and the links therein...OK maybe it will take you an hour..

If you take the time to educate yourself you'll find that the hours you've allegedly spent "researching" have left you sorely misinformed on bloodroot paste. It is not the be all end all but it is definitely a MEDICALLY PROVEN powerful tool in the treatment of non melanoma and melanoma skin cancers...

Edited by - anivoc on 05/13/2014 19:20:01
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Ojay

Australia
3 Posts

Posted - 06/19/2014 :  05:02:51  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
G'day, I am now to this forum and new to Black Salve.

I put some on to a lump on the side of my nose, covered it and left it for a day. When I took the plaster off, it looked like I had seen on others on the net, red, puffy and black in the middle. That was a few days back, but I have not really understood how to have looked after it since. The first day or so I put oil on it thinking this was right, but the scab had softened and blended into the skin around it. So then I left it to dry, but again it doesn't look like pictures where it comes apart from everthing going white and would then fall off. Any help please...
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Ojay

Australia
3 Posts

Posted - 06/19/2014 :  08:25:35  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Apologies to you, after I posted this I found the thread from Ken Murray and have gotten my answers.
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Disclaimer: The three most common types of skin cancer are basal cell carcinoma, squamous cell carcinoma, and melanoma. While melanoma is the most dangerous type, keep in mind that any cancer and potentially some cancer treatments can cause injury or death. The various views expressed in these public forums should not be considered as medical advice. See your qualified health-care professional for medical attention, advice, diagnosis, and treatments.