| Author |
 Topic  |
|
Brigid
68 Posts |
 Posted - 07/09/2010 : 10:54:29
|
quote:
Originally posted by marsha
Im on a trip so I can't send a picture, BUT IM FREAKING OUT!!My nose itched all day, when I took the bandage off and rubbed slightly, all the skin came off and the thing is twice as deep. It looks like I can see the muscles or whatever that is cartalage. So Im not putting ps on tonight. Maybe I should just get my nose removed..Maybe Its just to deep.
Marsha,
I've found that an herbal salve with an olive oil base made by Wiseways Herbals is great for itching. It's called Anti-Itch Salve. I've also used their All-Heal Salve for itching, minor cuts, etc. and it's great too. It has no toxic ingredients, another plus for me.
Hope you get relief soon.
Brigid
|
 |
|
|
Gabby
21 Posts |
Posted - 07/09/2010 : 11:20:16
|
quote:
Originally posted by marsha
Im on a trip so I can't send a picture, BUT IM FREAKING OUT!!My nose itched all day, when I took the bandage off and rubbed slightly, all the skin came off and the thing is twice as deep. It looks like I can see the muscles or whatever that is cartalage. So Im not putting ps on tonight. Maybe I should just get my nose removed..Maybe Its just to deep.
Marsha,
It is because of the deepness of the underlying cancer that it has continued to recur. Hopefully the PS has done what it does, and has gotten to the roots.
Best to you. |
|
|
|
waverider
76 Posts |
Posted - 07/09/2010 : 17:09:18
|
No answers, just thinking out loud:
My understanding is that the chief mechanism of petty spurge is two-fold: modulates protein kinase to induce cancer cell "suicide," then also instigates strong immune response, flooding area with neutrophils -- white blood cells that attack foreigners -- which is why it produces oozing, gnarly scabs, etc.
However, there is one other dimension to PS and that is it's rich in glycosides, which are chemically caustic. THAT'S why you don't want to get it in your eye.
So what I'm wondering about these extended treatments is this: After two or three weeks of PS application, if I still have a raw, open, oozing crater, what am I actually seeing?
Am I seeing the persistence of active BCC which has resisted the PS onslaught and needs a couple of more weeks of treatments?
Or am I simply seeing otherwise normal deep raw wound flesh that is being chemically eaten by daily exposure to the corrosive glycosides in PS and will never heal up as long as I keep putting it on the spot?
One thing we could do: Orange oil is a pretty good "indicator" of BCC presence and we could see what kind of a sting response we get from that to determine if there's still active BCC going on in there.
Say I gouged my knee or cut my finger deeply and dumped daily applications of PS on it for two weeks, would that perhaps be caustic enough to keep it in the raw, open-wound stage instead of allowing it to heal? I don't feel like cutting myself on purpose just to find out but if I did by accident, I'd be tempted to experiment. |
|
|
|
clearlake
25 Posts |
Posted - 07/10/2010 : 13:40:21
|
Marsha, we feel for you and know it takes courage to have gone this far! Whatever you decide to do, we support you. I know this is not a fun place to be! I know someone who got the exact same side of her nose replaced with surgery and some kind of skin graft, and she looks fine, and, lucky for her, the cancer has not returned.
Waverider, thanks for the helpful info in your post on the ingredients of PS. I also wonder about the wisdom of using PS for a long period, but I know from using it on my arm and face for shorter periods of time that the PS simply did not get rid of it and before long the cancer was rearing it's ugly head again. I don't think I'm a typical test case, though. My body system/immune system is very sluggish and slow. Some other, healthier individuals may find that PS works like a charm in 3 days. The skin cancer I'm finding on myself is never just one little spot - it's rooted to other spots now all over the center of my face. I'm just keeping at this section to see if this is going to work for me before giving up. Right now I'm not sure what my alternatives are. |
|
|
|
anivoc
668 Posts |
Posted - 07/10/2010 : 14:16:02
|
quote:
Originally posted by waverider
So what I'm wondering about these extended treatments is this: After two or three weeks of PS application, if I still have a raw, open, oozing crater, what am I actually seeing?
Am I seeing the persistence of active BCC which has resisted the PS onslaught and needs a couple of more weeks of treatments?
Or am I simply seeing otherwise normal deep raw wound flesh that is being chemically eaten by daily exposure to the corrosive glycosides in PS and will never heal up as long as I keep putting it on the spot?
One thing we could do: Orange oil is a pretty good "indicator" of BCC presence and we could see what kind of a sting response we get from that to determine if there's still active BCC going on in there.
Say I gouged my knee or cut my finger deeply and dumped daily applications of PS on it for two weeks, would that perhaps be caustic enough to keep it in the raw, open-wound stage instead of allowing it to heal? I don't feel like cutting myself on purpose just to find out but if I did by accident, I'd be tempted to experiment.
With bloodroot if you apply it to healthy skin there is no reaction. I have a feeling it is the same with petty spurge... real simple test. try some in an area where you are sure the skin is healthy. That will give you the answer. |
|
|
|
waverider
76 Posts |
Posted - 07/10/2010 : 17:08:50
|
I get that it doesn't have an effect on healthy, healed skin ... but I'm wondering about the unhealed open wound -- the bloody raw crater -- that is the usual after-effect of the cancer-consuming action of bloodroot and, in a less dramatic way, petty spurge. Is it standard, for example, to continue doggedly applying bloodroot day after day to the open crater that forms after the first application(s)? And if one did so, would it hinder healing?
I'm just thinking that since the action of the two is somewhat similar (though obviously greater in intensity with bloodroot) the protocol for use would probably be similar, too. |
|
|
|
marsha
122 Posts |
Posted - 07/11/2010 : 02:07:07
|
| First of all I want to thank all of you for responding. It makes me cry. I can feel really isolated and then all of a sudden you all answered. Thank you. Back to the nose. The white spots were gone. So I stopped using ps. Gracetogo your right about the itching. I remember that from the curaderm. But the itching was 5 times as bad. (But the pain with curaderm is 5 times as bad)Anyway, the next day the bottom half had totally healed over.The top half is still oozing and itching. I think the ps keeps working for a while after you stop using it. |
|
|
|
Brigid
68 Posts |
Posted - 07/11/2010 : 09:54:35
|
quote:
Originally posted by waverider
I get that it doesn't have an effect on healthy, healed skin ... but I'm wondering about the unhealed open wound -- the bloody raw crater -- that is the usual after-effect of the cancer-consuming action of bloodroot and, in a less dramatic way, petty spurge. Is it standard, for example, to continue doggedly applying bloodroot day after day to the open crater that forms after the first application(s)? And if one did so, would it hinder healing?
I'm just thinking that since the action of the two is somewhat similar (though obviously greater in intensity with bloodroot) the protocol for use would probably be similar, too.
From reading about PS on the net, my understanding is that it does affect normal skin, is considered "toxic" for that reason. From what I remember it will irritate/redden it but not dig down the way it does where the cancer is. I'm going to try it on healthy skin as well to see what it does.
Has anyone fertilized their little sprouts? If so, at what point ie how tall were they? Mine are about 1 1/2-2" and have no leaves on the stems, only on the top. But I have one plant with 8 leaves which I grew in plain potting soil (as opposed to the soil/sand/vermiculite mix, and it always looked hardier than these spindly little creatures. |
|
|
|
marsha
122 Posts |
Posted - 07/11/2010 : 21:33:16
|
Image Insert:
83.67 KB
This is the day before I freeked out and it went twice as deep.The white spots are almost gone.The bottom one is 2 days after I quit using ps.
Image Insert:
46.61 KB
july 11th starting these new spots
Image Insert:
63.79 KB
|
|
|
|
thanks01
170 Posts |
Posted - 07/12/2010 : 18:37:32
|
Marsha,
I have never yet succeeded with growing Petty Spurge, and also have never yet experienced these deep holes which concern you. (My only procedure so far, really was a Mohs with plastic surgery following).
I would just like to remark that your very good pictures do look like a "clean" process. I can believe this is scary, but to me it looks like you are really cleaning out the problem, and I just hope that these places now heal well for you.
I am just an interested bystander at the moment and can give no weight to my opinions. But I thank you for such clear and detailed sharing. This will definitely be part of the Petty Spurge history as we keep working on the forum here. |
|
|
|
svanip
18 Posts |
Posted - 07/12/2010 : 19:33:23
|
Hey Looks and feels fine however at this stage I am not convinced that the BCC is gone - My derm Dr was not happy that I had taken this cousre of treatment, he called it "Petty Spurge" one of the caustic's and said that all this type of treatment does is drive the cancer below the surface and causes it to spread underneath the skin so - I am still worried its down deep somewhere !!
Lets hope he is wrong !!
quote:
Originally posted by anemone
svanip - I just saw your day 70 pictures. It is looking great! How are you feeling about it?
To others that might be interested - I started treating an actinic keratosis on my leg but not regularly. I think I have applied sap 4 or 5 times in 3 weeks, but it does form a scab which I remove prior to each treatment. So far, no pain whatsoever, just red and scabby. Definitely not a pretty sight.
For those wanting to grow their own petty spurge, this is how I did it. I planted the seeds in Jiffy pots and put them indoors in a SW window. The window is partially blocked by a roof overhang and tall tress so it really only gets mid-afternoon sun. Once the plants got 5-7 inches tall, I repotted them in larger pots using Miracle Grow soil. That has been over a month ago and they continue to do well. Actually, they have seeds developing, so I guess they are happy.
I did make the mistake of putting the plants outside in the sun one day when they were about 3-4 inches high. When I got home that evening, I thought I was going to lose all of them. They looked terrible, even though the soil was still moist. They definitely did not like the strong sun, so indoors they stay. I water them frequently with filtered water and started adding fertilizer when they were a few inches high and had some leaves. So far they have been pretty easy to grow.
Best of luck to all.
|
|
|
|
waverider
76 Posts |
Posted - 07/12/2010 : 20:36:37
|
Marsha, I think it will heal up fine if you let it. It does look very "clean" as Thanks says -- just normal raw flesh. You will be living in Scab City for a while and if I were you, I'd let the scab stay there as long as it wants to. There may be some indentation there for a while after the scab sheds, which you can feel with your finger. That kind of wound is called a "tissue deficit" wound, versus a standard cut or slash, and it takes some time for space left by the eaten-away flesh (sorry, can't think of any less-graphic description) to be replaced with new tissue so that you can't feel any indentation anymore. It's a slow process. I can still detect some indentation on the back of my head where the PS excavated some BCC last year. But its all healed over with smooth clear flesh, so, no problem.
|
|
|
|
marsha
122 Posts |
Posted - 07/12/2010 : 23:55:27
|
| waverider, I don't get any scabs because I keep a piece of tape on all the time. I decide that the part of my nose was not finished at the top, It didn't heal like the bottom part and after looking at my picture again I notice one of those white spots. I too am worried about not getting the roots.It seems like it should be like curaderm.When the cancers gone it heals by its self even while you put on the cream. I had moes surgery in the same spot that I am working on now.They took out about a nickel size.Then I came home and went to another Dr. and he said that my nose looked terrible and he would fix it for me. He cut it back open and shaped it like an eye then stitched it up. Well that pulled the nostril up on one side and put a big lump across the bridge of my nose. Oh well. onward, So I'm going to check out the iodine and agrimony. |
|
|
|
clearlake
25 Posts |
Posted - 07/14/2010 : 13:22:15
|
| Svanip, thanks for getting back to us with the follow-up information. Interesting that your Derm implies you have done yourself harm by using Petty Spurge. I was curious to hear if your doctors would do another biopsy to see if the spot was clear. Anyway, keep us posted on what happens with your Basal Cell. |
|
|
|
marsha
122 Posts |
Posted - 07/17/2010 : 10:39:28
|
Svanip, I dont understand how your dr. can call this caustic. With all the prescription creams they use. Not to mention the burning and freezing and cutting.And I dont think this drives it deeper. I read up on the Iodine site and one thing that stood out was the Dr. was talking about the white spots. I hope I will know when this is done. I hope it will just heal by itself while still using the petty.
Image Insert:
16.86 KB
This is july 16th and 17th.Notice the white spots.I don't know yet but I think they are shrinking. PS works so much faster than curaderm.
Image Insert:
17.59 KB
Image Insert:
20.01 KB |
|
|
|
waverider
76 Posts |
Posted - 07/17/2010 : 11:48:13
|
| I thought the "it will drive it deeper" remark by that Doctor was sort of a giveaway, too. I don't believe you can drive cancer deeper. Like, do the little cells say to each other, "whoa, petty spurge up top, better turn around and go deeper so it doesn't get us"? Cancer is where it is. I don't think you can induce cancer cells to flee to some other location in order to evade treatment. Otherwise, wouldn't Aldara, freezing, etc, also "drive it deeper"? I do think that any derm who says that figures he can easily use a scare tactic to discourage non-surgical attempts to deal with it. I'm also surprised (not really, given my experience with dermatologists thus far) that a Dr. in Australia would be so uninformed about it, since PS has already cleared many clinical trials down under, been written up in Australian medical journals, etc. That alone would cause me to question his judgment. |
Edited by - waverider on 07/17/2010 12:03:59 |
|
|
|
lonewolf1218
5 Posts |
Posted - 07/18/2010 : 23:35:58
|
| I finally got my plants to grow.They are about 2 to 3 inches tall.A couple of leafs on them.How long do I have to let them grow before I can use them.How tall do I have to wait for them? |
|
|
|
marsha
122 Posts |
Posted - 07/19/2010 : 10:29:04
|
| My expierence with ps is you better have a lot of them and once you start clipping off the leaves, the production of sap gets less and less throughout the whole stem that you cut. did that make since? |
|
|
|
marsha
122 Posts |
Posted - 07/23/2010 : 09:44:40
|
| I put a handful of seeds into my boginvilla pot. It is in a sun room ,so it gets pretty hot during the day. But the seeds are partly shaded because of the boginvilla. I watered only when the bogivilla started to wilt. The reason I did that was I had a wild one grow in that pot and figured it didnt get much water so I would just treat these the same. I've allso started digging them up where ever I see them, and I stuck some in a pot out side with my allo. |
|
|
|
marsha
122 Posts |
Posted - 07/23/2010 : 11:52:03
|
Image Insert:
18.08 KB
The spot on the nostrill I used iodine on for 6 days. I allso used banking soda. It got a huge scab then peeled off.
Image Insert:
17.53 KB
The other spots I'm still using petty. They are itching so bad I cant stand it. The white spot on my nose, again I think is a bc root.Also blistering up above. Then I dont use ps for a day. I think the tape is causing the itching and the spreading. The nostrill looks good and the iodine was easy to use, so I decide to use it on all the spots.
Image Insert:
12.56 KB
Image Insert:
19.1 KB But then I keep reading and the info on the baking soda scares me. I dont know what to believe. So I reread the pettyspurge site and desided to go back to using ps.I'm not going to use the tape on it.See if that helps the itching. But I liked using the tape because it kept it open and I could see what was going on, and I knew that the ps was really getting to the bottom. |
|
|
|
thanks01
170 Posts |
Posted - 07/23/2010 : 12:31:27
|
Marsha,
You are very courageous and a wonderful poster on this forum. When I look at your recent attempts I am tempted to say, take a rest and let everything heal and then go back to trying again. Other people might say, "Get to the cancer at the bottom of those pits while you can." I don't know enough to say which is right, but I certainly hope for a good result and peaceful recovery for you. Best wishes from Thx |
|
|
|
svanip
18 Posts |
Posted - 07/26/2010 : 21:02:50
|
Hey yes - I tend to agree - he was completly against this treatment and suggested that there was absolutly no approved petty spurge treatment whatsoever and said that he said it would be many years when and if it may be aproved - told me to stay well away from any of the caustic's :-)
quote:
Originally posted by waverider
I thought the "it will drive it deeper" remark by that Doctor was sort of a giveaway, too. I don't believe you can drive cancer deeper. Like, do the little cells say to each other, "whoa, petty spurge up top, better turn around and go deeper so it doesn't get us"? Cancer is where it is. I don't think you can induce cancer cells to flee to some other location in order to evade treatment. Otherwise, wouldn't Aldara, freezing, etc, also "drive it deeper"? I do think that any derm who says that figures he can easily use a scare tactic to discourage non-surgical attempts to deal with it. I'm also surprised (not really, given my experience with dermatologists thus far) that a Dr. in Australia would be so uninformed about it, since PS has already cleared many clinical trials down under, been written up in Australian medical journals, etc. That alone would cause me to question his judgment.
|
|
|
|
svanip
18 Posts |
Posted - 07/26/2010 : 21:09:53
|
Obviously it is besause it eats large holes in you body and not just on the cancer spots !!
[quote]Originally posted by marsha
Svanip, I dont understand how your dr. can call this caustic. With all the prescription creams they use. Not to mention the burning and freezing and cutting.And I dont think this drives it deeper. I read up on the Iodine site and one thing that stood out was the Dr. was talking about the white spots. I hope I will know when this is done. I hope it will just heal by itself while still using the petty.
|
|
|
|
Irene
18 Posts |
Posted - 07/27/2010 : 12:48:35
|
I see many questions about growing the Petty Spurge plant and I would like to offer some suggestions:
Now that it is summer in North America: grow them outside. My best plant started between the cracks of two walkway stones (accidentally from seeds from my original plants). It is strong and healthy because it has been outdoors and faced the elements.
When it was about 1.5" tall the top got chopped off by mistake - this produced a wonderful, bushy, compact little plant. [See pictures - notice the reddish, thick stems on this one!].
This seedling grew in the cracks in front of my house - so it had full sun exposure. When it was about 3" tall I dug it up and planted in a plastic pot and after a day of sulking, it seems to be happy with the richer soil it now has.
From my experience the rules for this plant are:
1) Don't let the soil dry out.
2) Keep plants in an area where they have plenty of fresh air to avoid moulding.
3) Cut the tip off when it's still quite small - 2 or 3 " max. That way it will branch out and be a more balanced plant.
4) Don't coddle it - it's tough if you let it be.
5) Use liquid fertilizer now and again once it's about 2" tall.
PS I still have plenty of seed if anyone wants to buy some.
Irene
ilester@sympatico.ca
Image Insert:
74.26 KB
Image Insert:
71.8 KB |
Edited by - Irene on 07/28/2010 06:45:50 |
|
|
|
marsha
122 Posts |
Posted - 07/28/2010 : 10:08:47
|
| svanip, Are you saying you are unhappy with your results? I put some petty spurge on the underside of my for arm and taped it up.I will continue this another 2 days. That will make 4 days, So far I have had no reaction. |
|
|
|
adfecteau
5 Posts |
Posted - 07/28/2010 : 12:36:02
|
I had a bcc removed from my forehead via Mohs surgery a couple months ago. Very bad infection, very painful, etc, etc, unpleasant overall. Planted Euphorbia Peplus in case something else came up.
Most important tip for growing - grown them outside if climate allows (I didn't clip the top off). I put some outside after sprouting, they grew several times stronger and larger than the ones I left indoors even for only 3 extra days.
SITUATION: Just tried it out for the first time on a suspect spot on my left bicep (had characteristics of bcc), very small, and on two freckle spots.
RESULTS: No reaction until about 10 hours later THEN:
Suspect spot - Sap started eating with a healthy appetite.
Freckle spots - Slightly pink skin, nothing else.
Hopeful, I'll let you know how it goes, no pictures sorry. |
|
|
|
Brigid
68 Posts |
Posted - 07/28/2010 : 14:38:44
|
quote:
Originally posted by Irene
I see many questions about growing the Petty Spurge plant and I would like to offer some suggestions:
Now that it is summer in North America: grow them outside. My best plant started between the cracks of two walkway stones (accidentally from seeds from my original plants). It is strong and healthy because it has been outdoors and faced the elements.
When it was about 1.5" tall the top got chopped off by mistake - this produced a wonderful, bushy, compact little plant. [See pictures - notice the reddish, thick stems on this one!].
This seedling grew in the cracks in front of my house - so it had full sun exposure. When it was about 3" tall I dug it up and planted in a plastic pot and after a day of sulking, it seems to be happy with the richer soil it now has.
From my experience the rules for this plant are:
1) Don't let the soil dry out.
2) Keep plants in an area where they have plenty of fresh air to avoid moulding.
3) Cut the tip off when it's still quite small - 2 or 3 " max. That way it will branch out and be a more balanced plant.
4) Don't coddle it - it's tough if you let it be.
5) Use liquid fertilizer now and again once it's about 2" tall.
PS I still have plenty of seed if anyone wants to buy some.
Irene
ilester@sympatico.ca
Image Insert:
74.26Â KB
Image Insert:
71.8Â KB
|
|
|
|
Brigid
68 Posts |
Posted - 07/28/2010 : 14:41:18
|
quote:
Originally posted by Brigid
quote:
Originally posted by Irene
I see many questions about growing the Petty Spurge plant and I would like to offer some suggestions:
Now that it is summer in North America: grow them outside. My best plant started between the cracks of two walkway stones (accidentally from seeds from my original plants). It is strong and healthy because it has been outdoors and faced the elements.
When it was about 1.5" tall the top got chopped off by mistake - this produced a wonderful, bushy, compact little plant. [See pictures - notice the reddish, thick stems on this one!].
This seedling grew in the cracks in front of my house - so it had full sun exposure. When it was about 3" tall I dug it up and planted in a plastic pot and after a day of sulking, it seems to be happy with the richer soil it now has.
From my experience the rules for this plant are:
1) Don't let the soil dry out.
2) Keep plants in an area where they have plenty of fresh air to avoid moulding.
3) Cut the tip off when it's still quite small - 2 or 3 " max. That way it will branch out and be a more balanced plant.
4) Don't coddle it - it's tough if you let it be.
5) Use liquid fertilizer now and again once it's about 2" tall.
PS I still have plenty of seed if anyone wants to buy some.
Irene
ilester@sympatico.ca
Image Insert:
74.26Â KB
Image Insert:
71.8Â KB
|
|
|
|
Brigid
68 Posts |
Posted - 07/28/2010 : 15:11:14
|
Sorry about the blank just now. I sometimes can't access the page with the "post a reply" at the upper right.
Soil mix for seedlings is important too. According to Beautanicals 1/3 potting soil/ 1/3 sand/ and 1/3 vermiculite is best to start them. Put in larger pots once they have 6-8 leaves on them. Can fertilize once every 2 or 3 days with a liquid fert. like fish emulsion even when they're in the little peat pots, but I'm not sure when to start fertilizing. Has anyone done this? How big were the seedlings when you started?
Canada, where you live, Irene, is cooler than some parts of the US. People have posted about losing their plants if they live in Texas, for ex. Even in New England my seedlings were dying inside and outdoors,it's been too hot and humid. Putting an air conditioner in revived some of them. I've tried hardening them off outside in the eastern morning sun, but they have to be brought in before the real heat sets in, even though there's no more direct sun at that point--otherwise they droop. I've been trying to prop up the weaker ones that bend over inside: some have responded well but others were too frail to become upright.
|
|
|
|
Gabby
21 Posts |
Posted - 07/28/2010 : 15:19:37
|
Irene,
Your plants look really happy. How long did it take them to get to that stage??
I have 20 or so seedlings that are almost at the "top off" stage. I may transplant them into their own pots first, though.
Mine are growing in an eastern window--really hot and humid in the Atlanta area just now. |
|
|
|
Irene
18 Posts |
Posted - 07/28/2010 : 17:14:47
|
I don't think they like to get too terribly hot - although it's been 30 degrees here for a few weeks... But this plant of mine does get sunshine half the day, shade the other half (southern exposure I guess). I think letting two or three seeds grow in one pot is a good idea as they support each other a bit that way.
The ones I grew over the winter had very very weak stems compared to this summer plant. (See Dan's very first post - it has the picture of my winter plants in it).
Considering that this new one started out in clay dirt with screening on top, I really don't thinks it's all that fussy about the soil it's in.
quote:
Originally posted by Gabby
Irene,
Your plants look really happy. How long did it take them to get to that stage??
I have 20 or so seedlings that are almost at the "top off" stage. I may transplant them into their own pots first, though.
Mine are growing in an eastern window--really hot and humid in the Atlanta area just now.
|
|
|
|
marsha
122 Posts |
Posted - 08/01/2010 : 10:57:58
|
| I think it was a mistake to let it scab over, I think the tape is a better way to go. Keep it open. Allso petty spurge will keep working after you stop putting it on. I put a little curaderm on one of my spots,to get the scab off,It stung so bad that I washed it off, Then went back to ps. Its healed up pretty nice. But will run a test on it to see if it is really gone. |
|
|
|
dan
611 Posts |
Posted - 08/01/2010 : 12:53:36
|
| Hi marsha, what is the test that you mentioned? |
|
|
|
marsha
122 Posts |
Posted - 08/01/2010 : 15:59:06
|
| Hi dan!!!! It's called Plantain Goldenseal Salve,by Gaia Herbs. Its a really nice salve if you dont have skin canser. My herblist friend uses it for mild healing. It has some blood root in it. |
|
|
|
Irene
18 Posts |
Posted - 08/01/2010 : 18:14:33
|
What does it do if it is BCC?
quote:
Originally posted by marsha
Hi dan!!!! It's called Plantain Goldenseal Salve,by Gaia Herbs. Its a really nice salve if you dont have skin canser. My herblist friend uses it for mild healing. It has some blood root in it.
|
|
|
|
marsha
122 Posts |
Posted - 08/01/2010 : 22:41:38
|
Ive never used it for more than one or two aplications at a time. Because I'm kind of scared of blood root. But my friend told me to take a brake from curaderm and put something soothing on my spots.I applied it liberally,beyond the spots.
My spots swelled up and oozed more than they already were. My friend could not believe it. she said she had never seen any reaction before. Maybe I should try it. It has all sorts of good stuff in it like chaparral, tumeric root. |
|
|
|
dan
611 Posts |
Posted - 08/02/2010 : 01:22:02
|
Thanks Marsha! That looks like a good find. From http://www.gaiaherbs.com/product.php?id=194 , Plantain Goldenseal Salve is a combination of Plantain Leaf, Goldenseal Root, Burdock Root, Chaparral Leaf, Black Walnut Leaf, Thuja Leaf, Turmeric Root, Bloodroot, and Eucalyptus Essential Oil. This is an intriguing salve with lots of known cancer fighting components (bloodroot, burdock root, chaparral, turmeric), a delivery oil (eucalyptus and maybe thuja leaf), and anti-fungals (goldenseal and black walnut leaf). Plantain leaf and turmeric may act as an anti-inflammatories. Your skin cancer reaction is a potentially promising sign that the salve could be effective against skin cancer, or at least as an indicator as you are using it.
My first thought was this plantain was related to bananas but it is actually a common lawn weed. I have heard of plantain leaf to relieve poison ivy and the reviews at http://www.iherb.com/Gaia-Herbs-Plantain-Goldenseal-Salve-2-oz/13500?at=1 confirm that.
Some of the ingredients have safety issues if taken internally but that may not be an issue if applied topically. For example, Chaparral can cause liver and kidney problems. Brain damage (kernicterus) has developed in newborn infants exposed to goldenseal. Do not use goldenseal during pregnancy or breast-feeding. Thuja (cedar) oil taken internally can cause convulsions. |
|
|
|
marsha
122 Posts |
Posted - 08/02/2010 : 09:22:06
|
| Well its been 24 hours whith the salve under tape. 2 applications, on 2 of the spots. Looks good.no swelling, or rash. I guess I'll try the thrid spot, and then I thought I'd try the orange oil test. |
|
|
|
dan
611 Posts |
Posted - 08/02/2010 : 21:02:02
|
| Hi marsha, that's great about the lack of reaction with the Plantain Goldenseal Salve test! For the orange oil test, I would not trust the result until the area has had a chance to settle down for awhile. Applying orange oil to broken or inflamed skin may give a false positive. |
|
|
|
marsha
122 Posts |
Posted - 08/02/2010 : 23:18:33
|
Dan, Its good you told me that. I bought the orange oil today and tried some on myarm. no reaction. but I also put some more salve on my nose. I think pictures are really important, I did'nt know how large the bump was (white arrow) untill I saw it in the picture.The white arrow is my next spot to work on. The black arrow is the spot I just fin
Image Insert:
16.13 KB
Image Insert:
18.16 KBshed. |
|
|
|
marsha
122 Posts |
Posted - 08/03/2010 : 13:36:50
|
Image Insert:
20.08 KB
This morning after 3rd application of the salve, I think the side of my nose is red and swolen and slightly itchy. Then after reading the site about bcc and scc I feel very worried. What If I put blood root on and it eats into the catilage? |
|
|
|
thanks01
170 Posts |
Posted - 08/03/2010 : 16:24:12
|
Marsha,
I've never used bloodroot so I don't know what to say, really. But hopefully the application 3 days ago will not go that deep. My suggestion, try to be gentle with this side of the nose and just let some healing take place. I hope you do well with this. Let us know later.
If information will be comforting to you, try reading some of the threads on this forum by doing a search for "bloodroot". I just scanned some and there's lots of personal experience reporting there. Those threads have not had much attention lately because people right now are trying other things (bloodroot being banned by the FDA, and perhaps with good reason).
Best to you for your current problem and its concerns.... |
Edited by - thanks01 on 08/03/2010 16:33:35 |
|
|
|
marsha
122 Posts |
Posted - 08/04/2010 : 18:20:40
|
| Thanks01, Thank you so much for responding. Ive noticed your post throughout this site, and I think you are so kind. I took your advice and reread the bloodroot stuff. I looked at the horrific pictures again. I don't think that is the bloodroot. Or rather I think that is the bloodroot, eatting away the cancer. Thats what I'm worried about. That my cancer is so bad that I would end up like that. So that creates a dalema. If it is that bad, nothing I do will heal it without taking it to that point. |
|
|
|
anivoc
668 Posts |
Posted - 08/05/2010 : 08:07:30
|
Hi Marsha,
Sorry things are going slow and painful. In regards to the horror stories of bloodroot, I am one of the members here who has used it several times and can speak with personal experience.
Firstly because unlike most things we use for health, manufactured under strict conditions and guidelines, with bloodroot it is totally dependent on the source. The best way to find a good source is to do your homework. I hunted for months before going with a guy who now no longer sells to the public. He does sell his xxterra to veterinarians and fortunately for me spent quite a bit of time with me on the phone explaining what his paste did, how to use it and what to expect.
I also hunted down many people who had used bloodroot and posted stories on the net and e-mailed and spoke to them before I ever tried it myself. Lastly, because of the infamous lady with half her face missing, I did an experimental area application on my thigh where I knew there was no skin cancer. 24 hours covered up with tape no reaction..maybe a little red.
When I applied to my first BCC..there was things going on in seconds. I knew things were happening..like something pulling on it..from there the fun begins. I have a pretty high tolerance for pain..but it does hurt and it is continually annoying. It swells and it aches.
Here's the link to the pictures again..
http://public.fotki.com/Anivoc/xxterra/
As you can see in the pics taken over about 30 days it is quite aggressive and I healed up pretty good..
Bad news is the two on the forehead have come back. The nose one which was the smallest but deepest has behaved itself now for 10 years..whew!
Using it is not to be taken lightly. If there is skin cancer it is going to go after it..That is why for the last few years I have been trying all of this other stuff mostly to no avail.
Right now I have the petty spurge available to me but I am experimenting with some other things that I won't talk about here until I have concluded it is worth discussing. Though this site is great for sharing, I have been sucked into the group "Hopium" syndrome i.e. eggplant vinegar and wasted time and energy on treatments that in the end didn't work for most of us.
Hate the fact that I have to deal with this stuff but there are people with way worse afflictions and people dying from all kinds of terrible diseases. I may be scarred up but I am alive and been able to enjoy my family and continue to provide for them.
This forum has been a God send to me..but as Bono of U2 says..I still haven't yet found what I'm looking for.
To assume that perhaps the Mohs surgery is going to take less skin in eradicating a BCC..maybe..but since I've done both IMO I kind of doubt it.
You've been a brave soldier in this battle. I hope and pray for your success in winning the war or at least comfortably controlling the enemy till the medical world figures out how to control this with DNA modification therapy.
Good Luck! |
|
|
|
marsha
122 Posts |
Posted - 08/05/2010 : 11:13:05
|
| Anivoc, That was such a good letter!! Thank you. |
|
|
|
Gabby
21 Posts |
Posted - 08/05/2010 : 11:39:58
|
Anivoc,
I had a bcc on my noggin in much the same place. Was frozen several times, then cut out and stitched up (no mohs procedure by derm), then when an adjacent spot popped up, was burned off. My scarring is not any worse than what you ended up with via bloodroot.
Glad your nose has stayed clear. |
|
|
|
gpz
4 Posts |
Posted - 08/20/2010 : 23:54:06
|
Anivoc,
sorry, but just to be clear, have you used petty spurge and it didn't work, or have you not used it on a BCC?
|
|
|
|
Kanga
4 Posts |
Posted - 09/01/2010 : 02:47:38
|
Euphorbia Peplus - Systemic and or side effects?
I have successfully grown some plants from seeds bought from Beutanicals.com in Australia and the largest are now around 300mm high. I have used the sap from the plants on suspected solar keritosis, or possible BSC on my right forearm. (I have had many BSC excised surgically and solar keritoses frozen with liquid nitrogen, which GPs do routinely in Australia, as AK and BSC is so common here that for simple cases you don't need to always go to a specialist dermatologist.)
The first spots I treated (started treatment about a month ago) are now almost fully healed after a severe reaction, which burned the skin off over an area about 25mm x 12mm, which was considerably bigger than the area of the flaky skin being treated to which the sap was actually applied. It also burned more deeply into the subcutaneous layers of skin in a small area in the middle of the original area. There was very little pain, very mild really and I just kept it covered with a band aid plaster. I applied the sap several times, the second after the initial reaction, was applied to the open wound and came into contact with the raw surface. This stings a little but is not painful. So the sap could perhaps have entered the bloodstream too. The wound has now healed very well over 95% of the area with only a very small central scab remaining to come off.
However I also noticed that several other suspect spots nearby (flaky skin) to which I had not yet applied any sap also began to redden and become inflamed and in several a small pustule erupted from beneath the skin which burst. The area around still appears flaky. This suggests that the sap active compounds have been carried in the bloodstream to affect nearby AK or BCC lesions, as there had been no direct application to the site. I had intended to treat this lesion later, and may still do so depending on how it heals.
Have any other readers using this treatment experienced any similar "remote reactions" in nearby suspect (but not directly treated) skin areas a few days to a week after application of the sap to a treated area?
Also do any users report any other possible side affects of the treatment, as it appears from my observation that substances from the sap can enter the bloodstream and could therefore cause other systemic side effects?
In particular has any user noted any psychological effects such as acute anxiety, mood alteration, or depression when using the treatment? I appreciate that any such observations may make a very tenuous connection with the treatment, but not a lot is known about the effects of this "drug".
The Australian company Peplin based in Brisbane that was developing Euphorbia Peplus as a commercial skin cancer treatment cream, and had done clinical trials, was taken over on the Australian Stock Exchange last November for A$269 million by a large multinational drug company, so there may have been some research on possible side effects. Can any one link to any published research on these aspects, although I suspect that it is still a commercial secret.
|
|
|
|
annieh
41 Posts |
Posted - 09/01/2010 : 09:42:27
|
Kanga's message reads in part:
quote:
Originally posted by Kanga
Euphorbia Peplus - Systemic and or side effects?
> I also noticed that several other suspect spots nearby (flaky skin) to which I had not yet applied any sap also began to redden and become inflamed and in several a small pustule erupted from beneath the skin which burst ...
> Have any other readers using this treatment experienced any similar "remote reactions" in nearby suspect (but not directly treated) skin areas a few days to a week after application of the sap to a treated area?
Yes, Kanga, I have experienced that in one area I am treating, but not in others, and I read your posting with great interest.
I have a very elderly farmer-friend who has been using Petty Spurge for years to dab onto his freckled hands. I have learnt a bit from him about using it:
a) He only uses the merest tiny speck of it.
b) He told me he is always extra careful of the stuff in spring time when the sap seems very strong. And it is spring time here in Australia!
For me, I can't say that I have noticed any psychological reactions after using the Petty Spurge.
However, as to it producing a reaction in nearby tissue, in regard to my chest (though not to my hands) this has been the case. I have been using Petty Spurge on my upper chest recently and although I have very very carefully applied it to only about 4 suspect spots, I have indeed found that the nearby skin also goes very red and other spots light up. Like you this has surprised me as it had not happened when I used it on my hands.
However, on reflection, my entire upper chest area was severely sunburnt to the point of blistering when I was young -- so in my case I believe there must be a lot of contingent flesh that is damaged, apart from the obvious bits I can see with the naked eye and which I am targetting in my layman fashion.
I find that in treating about 4 spots, an adjacent area of about 4 square inches also goes red and then feels inflamed to the point where I have had to apply something soothing (best for me seems to be plain vitamin E cream).
I am now fairly optimistic as the petty spurge is slowly doing its work on my chest. It is so that no matter how careful I am to treat only a few tiny spots at a time, the whole area lights up like a firecracker, but with successive applications the degree of redness is decreasing.
So far on my chest I have applied Petty Spurge three times (once a day only; and with about 3 rest days in between)
When it gets too sore after treatment, I soothe it down with vitamin E cream on those rest days. Paw Paw ointment also helped.
All this is my attempt to heal my skin after another doctor had sprayed the chest area with liquid nitrogen. (See my photos of this at http://www.topicalinfo.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=755 -- NB I am not knocking liquid nitrogen -- I have had it heaps of times before with success, it is just it was the wrong thing for my chest area.)
Back to Petty Spurge:
I recently Googled clinical trials, and found something about the clinical trials of a product being developed from Petty Spurge at http://www.peplin.com/ -- and also see http://www.peplin.com/pipeline-products.php -- wish the product was a reality, and sincerely hope it gets on the market soon!
|
|
|
|
clearlake
25 Posts |
Posted - 09/02/2010 : 10:56:48
|
Hi, would like to respond to Kanga about the side effects of petty spurge. This link is from an earlier thread on this topic, it is an audio interview with the professor who first started developing the possibility of using "radium weed" as a treatment for cancer in a controlled scientific way.
http://blogs.abc.net.au/queensland/2009/05/milkweed-and-sk.html#
In this interview, the professor claims radium weed boosts the immune system as one of it's features on going after cancer. I think Aldara does that same thing. Why I bring this up, is that I've noticed that when I use petty spurge, in the first couple days I notice I am very hungry. I'm supposing this has something to do with the spurge calling on my metabolism to mount a defense, and this takes energy that my body needs more fuel to accomplish. However, he also claims that the cancer spot will be eradicated in a couple applications of the prescription version of the radium weed. This has not been the case for me (treating with regular sap). It seems to work much slower on me, maybe because I'm a slow oxidizer.
I've also experienced the treatment going after much more area than was visible, the longer you use it, it goes after subclinical areas and brings them to the surface. It is powerful. I was using it on my face most recently, but am taking a break from it right now. |
|
|
|
Kanga
4 Posts |
Posted - 09/02/2010 : 23:26:16
|
Research Literature on drug trials using Euphorbia Peplus.
I have managed to track down some of the publish extracts of trial reports of the drug derived from Euphorbia Peplus which is being called PEP5, Pep005 or Ingenyl angelate.
Here is a link that should bring up all the search results.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?db=pubmed&cmd=DetailsSearch&term=PEP5+OR+3-Ingenyl+angelate
Very heavy scientific stuff but makes interesting reading.
The point made in one reply to my earlier questions about the plant producing a much stronger more potent sap in spring time makes a lot of sense, as it is a common factor with many herbs. Of course a problem with using the sap directly is the inability to control the dose accurately, and the old farmer's advice about using very little particularly in spring makes sense.
The substance derived from Euphorbia peplus is also being studied as an anticancer agent in connection with other types of cancer, particularly colon cancer, but also including breast cancer and cervical, prostate cancer and melanoma.
See this link.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2600681/
The research referred to is early stage with in vitro cell cultures, but the direction and implications are pretty clear. I am led to wonder if any reports exist of sufferers from various other cancers have experimented with any extract of the plant, such as perhaps a tincture in alcohol to extract the sap, as a means of taking the drug internally? Not that I suggest anyone try this as the effects could be very unpredictable and nothing as known about it that I have seen. However people with imminently terminal conditions, with nothing to loose, may have experimented, or there could even be some knowledge of it in the domain of Chinese herbalists or in Indian traditional medicine?
Does any one have any information on medical applications of Euphorbia Peplus beyond skin cancer, from traditional European herbalists?
|
Edited by - Kanga on 09/03/2010 00:09:41 |
|
|
|
svanip
18 Posts |
Posted - 09/14/2010 : 02:57:25
|
No all seems OK at this stage - :-)
Image Insert:
3.26 KB
Image Insert:
3.3 KB
Day 160
quote:
Originally posted by marsha
svanip, Are you saying you are unhappy with your results? I put some petty spurge on the underside of my for arm and taped it up.I will continue this another 2 days. That will make 4 days, So far I have had no reaction.
|
Edited by - svanip on 09/14/2010 03:34:59 |
|
|
|
annieh
41 Posts |
Posted - 09/14/2010 : 22:34:14
|
Someone wrote to me asking,
quote:
How many times a day did you use the petty spurge on your spots, and did you bandage them when they started to ooze or scab? My plants are almost ready to use, another 3-4 weeks, hopefully. Also, what is paw paw ointment? I don't know if it's available in the US, New England, where I live. Where did you get it?
I used the petty spurge once only, a tiny dab.
I left the spot(s) unbandaged.
If after a week no scab had formed, I applied petty spurge again -- as I say, a week later:
again only a tiny dab on each spot.
For the first hour or so, there was no reaction, but then there would be inflamed redness in the area around the spot.
On some spots this redness occurred in quite a wide area.
On some spots this redness did not occur (from which I conclude those then were not skin cancer or AKs.)
I was also asked about Pawpaw: a fruit (papaya. There is a wound healing cream made from it (quite a few brands, one is just called "Papaya ointment made by Phytocare (http://www.phytocare.com.au and the other one is in a red tube (Lucas Papaw I think but I have used it up so can't check).
In the days inbetween applications of petty spurge, I used healing ointments on the lesions to ease the stinging (paw paw initially, and then Vitamin E cream or Calendula ointment). If the redness looked really bad with suppuration, I popped on a bit of Betadine ointment to prevent infection.
I am not sure if what I am writing is the correct/safe thing for anyone else to do, so just regard this as one person's attempt to heal themselves.
Most of all I am tackling my dietary needs (e.g. good vegetables, green and yellow, and very little sugar or fructose) so that my immune system can help the healing process.
|
|
|
|
annieh
41 Posts |
Posted - 09/14/2010 : 22:40:55
|
| I don't think Petty Spurge works on Melanomas. I think I recall reading, using the plant only works on bccs and sccs and AKs. With anything that might be a melanoma it is so very very important to get a diagnosis early !! And then, I would not mess with home remedies if I was diagnosed with melanoma. Just my humble opinion. Who knows maybe one day when Petty Spurge comes out on the market as a pharmaceutical cream it will work on all kinds of skin cancer, but in the meantime, I just regard Petty Spurge as an alternative to liquid nitrogen and a way to get rid of AKs before they go nasty... |
Edited by - annieh on 09/14/2010 22:45:02 |
|
|
|
SoFl
79 Posts |
Posted - 09/18/2010 : 15:18:13
|
quote:
Originally posted by marsha
Svanip, I dont understand how your dr. can call this caustic. With all the prescription creams they use. Not to mention the burning and freezing and cutting.And I dont think this drives it deeper. I read up on the Iodine site and one thing that stood out was the Dr. was talking about the white spots. I hope I will know when this is done. I hope it will just heal by itself while still using the petty.
Image Insert:
16.86 KB
This is july 16th and 17th.Notice the white spots.I don't know yet but I think they are shrinking. PS works so much faster than curaderm.
Image Insert:
17.59 KB
Image Insert:
20.01 KB
From my experience having used the PS versus efudex or surgery or whatever, I have found to have a much better end result with the PS. I wouldn't call it caustic. The only scars I have are from Dr hacker. It will go deep if the lesion is deep, but it seems to be to be much more powerful and selective at targeting the bad tissue than anything else and on my they heal up such that you can't tell there was anything there...maybe a little whiter than the surrounding skin but usually nothing visible. It has worked on me now for over 15 different lesions. I had to re treat 2.
Compared to efudex for example, it works much faster and on me it's far more selective...and I have cured lesions that efudex never cured.
I think there's a natural reluctance among the established profession to consider the possibility that there is something out there better than anything they have, not to mention it's bad for business. I went from going to the derm every 6 months to not going for a few years now because everything suspicious just gets the PS treatment now.
I was also just reading that Peplin who was working to bring this to market in Australia was acquired by another firm, so I have no idea when the product will actually be in the market. Maybe it's been iced until some patents run out. |
|
|
|
SoFl
79 Posts |
Posted - 09/18/2010 : 15:26:25
|
quote:
Originally posted by Brigid
Sorry about the blank just now. I sometimes can't access the page with the "post a reply" at the upper right.
Soil mix for seedlings is important too. According to Beautanicals 1/3 potting soil/ 1/3 sand/ and 1/3 vermiculite is best to start them. Put in larger pots once they have 6-8 leaves on them. Can fertilize once every 2 or 3 days with a liquid fert. like fish emulsion even when they're in the little peat pots, but I'm not sure when to start fertilizing. Has anyone done this? How big were the seedlings when you started?
Canada, where you live, Irene, is cooler than some parts of the US. People have posted about losing their plants if they live in Texas, for ex. Even in New England my seedlings were dying inside and outdoors,it's been too hot and humid. Putting an air conditioner in revived some of them. I've tried hardening them off outside in the eastern morning sun, but they have to be brought in before the real heat sets in, even though there's no more direct sun at that point--otherwise they droop. I've been trying to prop up the weaker ones that bend over inside: some have responded well but others were too frail to become upright.
I'm in South Florida and I have a lot of trouble with it. It doesn't thrive at all in hot weather. I have done enough experimenting now to know that it likes shade and cool weather, and can easily tolerate frost (from taking it to cold climate).
As far as soil conditions, I have grown them in all types of soil and am trying to figure out what it likes best. My best plant ever was in a topsoil mix with a lot of styrofoam, but I have also grown them ok in almost pure sand.
The biggest problem I have is that almost all the seeds propagate, but they remain in this dwarf state of only a few inches high and just not looking like they are thriving at all.
In one particular case, I remember I had one like that, then we had a cold (40) degree night and I had just fertilized it with some scotts liquid fertilizer, and it exploded in growth. So I think it likes cold and it likes fertilizer, but exactly how much and how cold it likes best is still TBG.
Any growing tips or how you grew a big healthy plant are appreciated.
|
|
|
|
SoFl
79 Posts |
Posted - 09/18/2010 : 15:52:15
|
quote:
Originally posted by waverider
Looks like a pretty typical Petty Spurge excavation project to me. It has connected the dots between the two focal points, probably wiped out some sub-clinical stuff which was on its way to becoming malignant, anyway. That's the good thing about PS: you get a bonus preemptive strike against areas that probably aren't full-blown BCC yet -- but are heading that way.
I'm not a Dr nor a PS expert by any means but after 13 days, personally I'd be inclined to lay off now, let it scab over, heal up, and then see what you've got. Looks pretty clean and like it wants to heal up now if you let it. In reading the patent pdf's at the Peplin website I don't find any reference to these extended treatment periods. Most of the examples there describe 3 to 5 days, if I recall correctly. If it turns out there are still some lingering hot spots later, you can hit them again with PS in a "mopping up" operation and it seems to work just as well the next time around (i.e., I haven't seen any sign that the BCC develops a resistance, or that the PS loses its effectiveness.) It will "find" any leftover residual stuff, target that, and leave the other healed areas alone. Just my two cents.
I just stopped by to throw in my 2 cents.
From my experience, if you have something that's deep, the challenge is to get the PS to the bottom of it before it starts to heal. In other words, letting it heal up or giving it a rest is exactly what I don't want to do despite the temptation to do so. In other words, if it's augered down fairly deep and is still going deeper, if you let a scab form the risk is that will block the PS from getting to the bottom of it. If you don't get to the bottom, from my experience it will return.
Also PS has a strange action on tissue in that if you are using it and it digs a pit, and you keep using it without letting it scab, it may still not bleed but would be deeper than would bleed if you just scraped that deep or something. It seems somehow to more or less just bleach the life out of the bad tissue...it's hard to explain unless you've used it.
Sometimes a small visible lesion will be much larger when the PS goes to work on it....sometimes 2x or so the visible part. So when I treat, I always now treat an area larger than the visible area.
I have found that the action of PS can be magnified by keeping the area moist by taping just the tape from a band aid over it (not the cottony part). If you put some crushed leaves on with tape after a sap treatment and keep it covered, that's basically the most full blown way to use it and what I have done on ones that were deep, deeper than I thought my skin even was in a few cases.
I'm not recommending anything for anyone else, just saying what has proven to work best for me and what I've noticed.
In terms of duration, I have used it on lesions that went deep, scabbed over and then healed, all while using PS. If I get an early scab, these days what I do is wash it off in the shower and retreat to open skin when I get out. On my body, PS will irritate good skin but that's it. In other words, it won't dig a hole in good skin.....possibly on the nose or forehead it would...on me those are the most sensitive areas to PS. I would imagine everyone is a little bit different in this regard.
I would agree that in most cases, three days of pure sap treatment has done the trick for me but now I routinely use it for longer just to be sure. I started out really scared of the stuff, but after you have seen how bad it can make a site look and then it ends up looking like nothing ever was there it has given me a lot more confidence to use it liberally. I have developed a lot of trust in it. To date I have never experienced any sort of side effects other than obviously site irritation.
That said, it doesn't take much. Like I said in earlier pages, an amount of sap equal to a grain of sand is all it takes to do a small lesion in. It's extremely powerful especially if you have an angry war torn plant thats been through a lot to survive. |
|
|
|
annieh
41 Posts |
Posted - 09/24/2010 : 08:48:56
|
quote:
Originally posted by SoFl
[quote]In terms of duration, I have used it on lesions that went deep, scabbed over and then healed, all while using PS. If I get an early scab, these days what I do is wash it off in the shower and retreat to open skin when I get out. On my body, PS will irritate good skin but that's it. In other words, it won't dig a hole in good skin.....possibly on the nose or forehead it would...on me those are the most sensitive areas to PS. I would imagine everyone is a little bit different in this regard.
Ah this issue of scabs: I am currently using Petty Spurge on both my nose and forehead. It is not a pretty sight! THe scabs feel very dry and I am tempted to soften them with a cream of some sort, so what do people recommend: leave it alone, or use Vit E cream (tried that today and it stung a lot) or use Pawpaw cream or rosehip oil or what? I am pretty desperate to soothe the rough scabby skin with something and also I still feel I might need to use more petty spurge:
for example on my forehead: above my eyebrow: what began as a tiny indented area turned into a huge swollen circular raised bump after my first application of petty spurge. A few weeks later it had subsided to a flat reddish area but still had the indent. I re-applied petty spurge this time in a wider area (realising that the cancer was larger below the visible surface indentation) and it got swollen and angry again but not as dramatic as the first time.
Now, there is a decent scab. I know not to scratch it off or I will have a scar; but should I soothe it with a topical cream of some kind?
Grateful for help. |
|
|
|
marsha
122 Posts |
Posted - 09/24/2010 : 10:02:33
|
| well in my opinion, keep it covered with not stick tape. |
|
|
|
SoFl
79 Posts |
Posted - 09/27/2010 : 11:03:10
|
quote:
Originally posted by annieh
quote:
Originally posted by SoFl
[quote]In terms of duration, I have used it on lesions that went deep, scabbed over and then healed, all while using PS. If I get an early scab, these days what I do is wash it off in the shower and retreat to open skin when I get out. On my body, PS will irritate good skin but that's it. In other words, it won't dig a hole in good skin.....possibly on the nose or forehead it would...on me those are the most sensitive areas to PS. I would imagine everyone is a little bit different in this regard.
Ah this issue of scabs: I am currently using Petty Spurge on both my nose and forehead. It is not a pretty sight! THe scabs feel very dry and I am tempted to soften them with a cream of some sort, so what do people recommend: leave it alone, or use Vit E cream (tried that today and it stung a lot) or use Pawpaw cream or rosehip oil or what? I am pretty desperate to soothe the rough scabby skin with something and also I still feel I might need to use more petty spurge:
for example on my forehead: above my eyebrow: what began as a tiny indented area turned into a huge swollen circular raised bump after my first application of petty spurge. A few weeks later it had subsided to a flat reddish area but still had the indent. I re-applied petty spurge this time in a wider area (realising that the cancer was larger below the visible surface indentation) and it got swollen and angry again but not as dramatic as the first time.
Now, there is a decent scab. I know not to scratch it off or I will have a scar; but should I soothe it with a topical cream of some kind?
Grateful for help.
On me, PS works most actively on the nose and the forehead, next arms and torso, and least actively on legs. I believe the forehead was the first place I ever used it and I had quite a reaction, meaning that the biopsied bcc was attacked and I had an area the size of a half dollar that was swollen up on my forehead surrounding the lesion during the first two days of treatment. It wasn't painful, but it generated a major reaction.
I have also subsequently used it on the nose. After some trial and error, what I have done is to make up a tincture of smashed up leaves and distilled water, and if I am working on something that gets a scab, I get in the shower or a tub to soften up the scab, wipe it off and then use an artists paintbrush to brush on some of the tincture which I keep in the refrigerator, which acts to soften the scab. I feel like this aids the healing process and also continues to work on anything that may still be there while healing. It is not nearly as strong as the pure sap. Sometimes I use tincture and a band aid to soften up the scab too. I know there are some people who say removing a scab will cause a scar but this is not true for me. The final result on my forehead was an area that is a little whiter than the rest of my skin but it is not visible unless you really look for it and being a M, it really isn't an issue at all in terms of appearance.
I'm doing this on my shoulder now. I used the sap for about week, and then I've been using the tincture for a couple of weeks every day, removing the scabs and using the tincture as the scabs get smaller. This is sort of standard operating procedure for me now. The current area is healing up nicely. Each subsequent scab I remove is smaller and the outer skin growing toward the center looks normal and healthy.
I remove the scab in the morning every day or now about every other day, and brush on some tincture. The next scab is smaller...and so on.
The skin underneath the scab looks uniform which is something I look for. After brushing on the tincture, it gives a good uniform view of the area and stops any bleeding there may have been from removing the scab.
As I have posted in other posts in this thread, personally, I would rather over treat than under treat, but I have NOT used it on a major lesion on the nose, only a minor one. My goal now is to treat anything before it becomes major. Any time anything changes or pops up, it gets the PS treatment straight away.
So all this is just my experience experimenting on myself. I'm not recommending what anyone else should do, just sharing my own experience. One thing I have mentioned before is that the more I have used it, the more confidence I have gained in how it works and how to use it. I suppose that would be true for others. I am always very careful to wash my hands after using it and not to get any in my eye. |
|
|
|
Brigid
68 Posts |
Posted - 09/27/2010 : 11:35:58
|
SoFi,
During the first week and subsequent weeks, did you only apply the leaf tincture once a day?
Can you tell us the details of how you made the PS leaf/distilled water tincture? How long before it becomes moldy? How many leaves to how much water? How long did you let it sit before you used it? Did you shake it 2X/day?
I'm about to start, but have a total of 10 spots on my face, two of them known tumors. Not sure how many to tackle at one time. |
|
|
|
marsha
122 Posts |
Posted - 09/27/2010 : 11:41:07
|
| Bridgid,What do you mean known tumors? What do they look like? I'm wondering if I have those? Marsha |
|
|
|
Brigid
68 Posts |
Posted - 09/27/2010 : 11:53:29
|
quote:
Originally posted by marsha
Bridgid,What do you mean known tumors? What do they look like? I'm wondering if I have those? Marsha
One was biopsied and the pathology report came back as : "basal cell carcinoma with elements of squamous cell carcinoma." It was originally a raised bump, 1/2 pearly white, 1/2 of it shiny pink, looked like a raised blister. The other one was a small slightly raised bump, about 3 mm (size of a pinhead or so). That one was looked at by some surgeons and the derm and they all agreed it was a type of BCC. They can't tell what type until they biopsy it. I used coconut oil 3-4X/day on that one and it now has more defined circular edges and looks a little bigger. It's been there a year or so. |
|
|
|
annieh
41 Posts |
Posted - 09/28/2010 : 05:22:00
|
quote:
Originally posted by SoFl
[quote]In terms of duration, I have used it on lesions that went deep, scabbed over and then healed, all while using PS. If I get an early scab, these days what I do is wash it off in the shower and retreat to open skin when I get out. On my body, PS will irritate good skin but that's it. In other words, it won't dig a hole in good skin.....possibly on the nose or forehead it would...on me those are the most sensitive areas to PS. I would imagine everyone is a little bit different in this regard.
I had an area the size of a half dollar that was swollen up on my forehead surrounding the lesion during the first two days of treatment.
Thanks for replying Sofi. I had the exact same reaction after applying some to an indent: it swelled up hugely beyond the area and was like a lump. Anyhow: scabs: I decided by instinct to wash the thin layer of slight scabby skin off my very red forehead. I washed it off with TeaTree oil (ouch ouch) given that TeaTree is an antiseptic and anti-fungal; soothed it with plain Vitamin E cream and with pawpaw cream, and then carried on with Petty Spurge: just for three days. I am leaving it alone now, just dealing with the area's redness (tiny dab of a low-dose cortisone cream). |
|
|
|
clearlake
25 Posts |
Posted - 09/28/2010 : 10:20:57
|
I was also just reading that Peplin who was working to bring this to market in Australia was acquired by another firm, so I have no idea when the product will actually be in the market. Maybe it's been iced until some patents run out.
SOFL, what do you mean by this? Has Peplin been gobbled up by the competition or Big Pharma in order to make them go away, with the product never going to market?
SOFL, you are such a great healer! You do a great job on yourself. I live in South Florida also.
Hey everyone here, I have a problem, would appreciate some feedback. I've had a history of superficial BCC on area between lip and nose. Treated with Aldara multiple times, didn't work. Had Moh's surgery there which left a scar, then I felt the cancer returning and used more Aldara just to see if something was going on (this was before Petty Spurge). Using the Aldara revealed another bad spot on the other side of area between lip and nose, and this spot was doing a sneaky journey across the upper lip area back to the original spot. I experimented with using bloodroot on both areas; the bloodroot lit up pretty good in both spots and left a significant disfiguring scar on the first spot where it ate into the Moh's scar, pulling my lip up into a sneer in the process. (Sorry, graphic)
I tried petty spurge on these areas, and really the whole center of my face it lit up plenty. I really did too large an area and could not sustain. Also, that original Moh's/disfigurement area just seemed so deep and it was painful. I quit, thinking I would get back to it. But it's just such a visible area to be experimenting on, and too painful, as I said. Meanwhile, my lips are getting flaky and bleed if I pull off the peel.
I decided to break down and go to the dermatologist, a new one. This guy seems top of the line, head of the skin cancer center, went to an ivy league medical school. When I showed him my face, he was very angry that I used topicals and said I couldn't be his patient if I continued to do that because he is against that kind of thing. He wouldn't biopsy 2 places I wanted him to (my arm! remember the pictures of my arm y'all!), but he did do 2 punch biopsies in the area of the original Moh's scar/now disfigurement. I have stitches in 2 places. Adding to my scar collection.
Anyway, they just called me from the clinic with biopsy results. They said they were negative, just scar tissue. What am I to make of this? I will get my stitches out Friday and see this derm, but . . . what about my lips and how I can feel the creepy crawly itchy ever spreading to around my nose, etc? What about the fireworks every time I use a topical? Do I believe them or believe in me? I never expected this negative biopsy result!! Any insight? |
|
|
|
thanks01
170 Posts |
Posted - 09/28/2010 : 11:00:28
|
| I imagine that some other people like me tend to try several solutions all at once, and then it's difficult to sort out which one helped. But we do it because we are so eager to get rid of the cancer problem. What I'm suggesting is that WHILE you do this search for a topical or dermatologist-suggested solution, that you try paying attention to your diet. The tendency to recurrence seems to me to be related to metabolism (my "two cents"). At the moment (along with some topicals) I am trying the 3 supplements suggested in the Forum Thread "Tried the rest and found the best" ( http://www.topicalinfo.org/forum/topic.asp?whichpage=1&TOPIC_ID=533#3125 ). I also am trying to avoid sugar/alcohol and high glycemic foods, since I (personal history for me) am prone to Candida Yeast, which is covered pretty extensively in other threads in this forum. |
|
|
|
waverider
76 Posts |
Posted - 09/28/2010 : 13:42:05
|
| The dermatologist's response was pretty standard. I understand the basis for it -- MDs have other concerns incl. liability issues if they advocate use of non-approved treatments. Everyone should be aware that a negative response from a dermatologist re topicals is a 100% foregone conclusion: They are going to advise you not to use it and/or to stop using it if you already are. Period. Now, that may in fact be sound advice and should be taken serious. But I didn't even get halfway thru one sentence describing Petty Spurge treatment before my MD started shaking his head, cut me off, and told me there was no such treatment in existence that worked. Anywhere. Ever. He wasn't receptive to listening to the Australian studies of PS and the petty spurge derivative topical now making it's way to FDA approval (I don't think he'd ever heard of it.) In a way I didn't blame him. If I was in his position and some patient came in the door saying he wanted to treat himself with a plant he was growing out on his patio, frankly, I'd probably tell him the same thing. Still, it helps to realize where everybody's coming from, and what their agendas are, on this subject. |
|
|
|
marsha
122 Posts |
Posted - 09/29/2010 : 10:17:17
|
| clearlake I am really sorry about all that. After being turned down for biopsies by a derm I finally got an appointment with my Dr. When I got my appointment with her she said she didn't do biopsies on the face. So I called another derm, but didn't make it past the appointment desk. So then I called my Dr and asked her for a referral, while waiting for her reply, I made an appointment with the first derm, for DEC. Then my Dr. called and left a message saying I should just hire a plastic surgeon, and get some moes done. I think the thing you have to remember is moes does scar, but if you have deep canser and you treat it with curaderm, petty,or blood root you will have scars all so, but they are not as bad as if you had moes. The ssc on my nostril was treated with curaderm, I thought I was going to end up with a huge piercing. It was biopsied first with a punch. I made it all the way through that treatment, meaning I kept using the curadem until after it had healed. I didn't make it through the petty spurge yet. I don't know what to make of you biopsies. Did you try putting the ps,or other things on places that don't have skin canser to see what your reaction to them are? |
|
|
|
annieh
41 Posts |
Posted - 10/16/2010 : 23:44:55
|
quote:
SoFl had said
>In terms of duration, I have used it on lesions that went deep, scabbed over and then healed, all while using PS. If I get an early scab, these days what I do is wash it off in the shower and retreat to open skin when I get out. On my body, PS will irritate good skin but that's it. In other words, it won't dig a hole in good skin.....possibly on the nose or forehead it would...on me those are the most sensitive areas to PS
I can only agree heartily: like SoFL, I too had an area the size of a half dollar that was swollen up on my forehead.
Just thought I should share my forehead story -- to spare others' eyes... WHen I reapplied PS recently (after a stint with orange oil) I got a massive reaction: the forehead near my eyebrows became swollen up and red well beyond the area on which I had applied the petty spurge. With a plant one gets an unknown dosage of sap and it is best to therefore not risk it near the eyes: I had not been very close to the eyes but the sap sure travelled into that area systemically ...
I think I might have got overconfident in using PS and had used too much -- OR my skin had got sensitive to it perhaps? But most of all the mistake I think I made was to use it in my eyebrows: to me that was too dangerous: too close to my eyes.
While a scab had indeed formed above my eyebrows at the original lesion, everything else was inflamed and sore. Then the scab went a pale yellowy colour and I was worried it was infected. I put some tea-tree oil on to disinfect it. Oh troubles began: I woke up in the night and did not recognise myself in the mirror: not only was my forehead swollen but worryingly, the eye area was swollen up too. This area of the face is the danger zone near the brain, a friend said. I did not want to take any chances and so I saw a doctor at once.
After a prescription of antihistamine and antibiotic I am now using only a mild moisturiser to ease the broken skin and a mild cortisone cream.
MORAL OF THE STORY: BE EXTREMELY careful when using petty spurge on the face, and DON'T use it anywhere near the eye area.
Elsewhere on the forum it warns not to use it near the eyes too ...
* * * * *
It is now a week later. My very confused skin is settling down. I am using gentle things like a mild sorbolene cream and a low-dose cortisone cream. After a rest period of a few weeks maybe I will apply some orange oil to see if the area reacts, to see how healed up things are. Just my experience; just my thoughts on things, shared in good faith in case it helps others for the best. Regards, Annieh |
Edited by - annieh on 10/17/2010 00:08:22 |
|
|
|
lonewolf1218
5 Posts |
Posted - 10/19/2010 : 00:29:18
|
| I' hoping someone can help me.I have been trying to grow petty surge without any luck.I was in so.fla now I am in west texas.I have the seeds,I get them to sprout but after they get to be about 2 to 3 inches tall,they start to die.When they get that big,should i water everyday?Get more sunlight?Please help.My cancer sores are getting bigger and I am tired of the surgeries. |
|
|
|
annieh
41 Posts |
Posted - 10/19/2010 : 16:23:39
|
quote:
Originally posted by lonewolf1218
I' hoping someone can help me.I have been trying to grow petty surge without any luck.I was in so.fla now I am in west texas.I have the seeds,I get them to sprout but after they get to be about 2 to 3 inches tall,they start to die.When they get that big,should i water everyday?Get more sunlight?Please help.My cancer sores are getting bigger and I am tired of the surgeries.
Where are they, in a pot inside? or outside in a pot? or in a garden, in a shady area? Mine seem to grow best when growing with another plant to shelter them a bit, but they seem to produce more sap when they get good light and a fair amount of water. But then I am writing from a temperate climate very different to Texas! |
|
|
|
Brigid
68 Posts |
Posted - 10/19/2010 : 16:42:38
|
quote:
Originally posted by lonewolf1218
I' hoping someone can help me.I have been trying to grow petty surge without any luck.I was in so.fla now I am in west texas.I have the seeds,I get them to sprout but after they get to be about 2 to 3 inches tall,they start to die.When they get that big,should i water everyday?Get more sunlight?Please help.My cancer sores are getting bigger and I am tired of the surgeries.
Hi,
First thing about PS: they really like cool to cold weather, so put your air conditioner on high. Second, I was told by the company I bought the plants from to plant them in soil that was 1/3 potting soil, 1/3 vermiculite or perlite (the white, lightweight styrofoam-looking stuff)and 1/3 humus. Have you tried buying the seeds from different sources? Some from Irene (see her posts on this forum) and some from beautanicals.com in Australia? I posted elsewhere in this forum about the soil mix. You can put one, two or three seeds in each little jiffy pot if you want, they don't mind. You DO want to keep the soil evenly moist from time of planting until they're 5-7". Then you can skip some days, but if it's very hot in FL and TX, water at least once a day and feel soil a few times a day to make sure they're damp. You may have to water more than once a day. Don't let the soil dry out. WATER GENTLY with a spray bottle so as not to dislodge the seeds. I found some seedlings just die at the stage you mention--2 or 3". If the stems are too fragile to stand upright at that point, you can pack extra soil around them the stem a little way up, enough to prop them up, dampen with the spray bottle, and firm the added soil in with your fingers. Keep the AC going 24/7, but don't put them right near it. Start them out in moderate light on a window sill, not a very dark northern exposure and no direct sun, no very bright southern exposures. Some western exposures also get too much afternoon sun. Once they hit about 3",you can fertilize with fish emulsion every 3 days or so. Just be careful their leaves don't get too big for the stem to hold up. The fertilizers increase leaf size. At 3" or so put the survivors very carefully into a bigger pot w/ more soil. Make a hole in the new pot's soil with a pencil approx the length of the roots. Put plants in and spray w/ water. Don't fertilize for several days after repotting, let them adjust to the new pot. (When you put them into the new pots, keep as much of the old soil as possible---reduces shock.) You don't need many plants, so if you start out with 30 and end up with 4-10 healthy ones, I think you'll be OK. Half of mine survived. They took 17 weeks to develop seed bracts (no seeds yet). I have them in a bright northern window that reflects light off the neighbors'bright white house close up. I started them off in fairly low light, eastern window, b/c they didn't seem to want much light in the beginning. I also put them outside every cool or cold night, and quite a few days along the way. Good luck with it. |
|
|
|
clearlake
25 Posts |
Posted - 10/21/2010 : 13:19:53
|
| lonewolf, I live in South FL which is probably even hotter than Texas, and I am able to grow the petty spurge. I keep it indoors, and surprisingly, I have it within 2 ft. of a southern exposure window on 2 small tables. I pulled the tables a couple feet away from the window so that at times during the day they get dappled light or only indirect light. But it is an extremely bright room in general. I've discovered that they do better only getting watered every other day, and not drowning them either. Maybe because of the humidity here they need less water. I had a friend take a couple plants for me while I was away and I told her to water them daily. They died! The ones I left for my son to water while I was away thrived - I could tell he did not water them every day. They looked better than when I took care of them. So since then I water every other day and they are growing well - it has cooled off here (below 80 at night) and the plants are responding. I also have 7 pots full of plants that I keep crowded all together on the 2 tables next to each other. I think they like being crowded together. But for sprouting seeds, maybe I would water more than what I said above. |
|
|
|
Brigid
68 Posts |
Posted - 10/23/2010 : 09:24:13
|
If you’ve used petty spurge, please reply. I'm on day 5 of applying the sap to a 2 1/2 year old twofer one squamous/ basal cell tumor above my upper lip. The area puffed up more from the sap, got a little red and developed a thin scab that I pulled off a few times and kept covered with a poultice of the crushed leaves and a band-aid. The scab was not on the whole puffy area, it was just on 2 tiny red eruptions that popped up 8 months ago. Nor did the whole puffy area turn red. Now it’s red but no oozing yet. There's also a strip of bumpy, non-puffy inflamed skin about the length & width of band-aid adhesive that extends from the original site to the crease at the end of my mouth (smile line.) There's no similar irritated area on the other side, so it’s not from the band-aid adhesive. I guess its either a surface reaction to the spurge or more cancer there that was under the skin. When I tried the spurge on a spot on my hand, nothing happened, so it’s probably not an allergic reaction. I put the crushed leaves poultice on 1 - 3 X/day and sap once or twice a day, but not much is happening other than stinging, redness, scabbing (which I’m trying to keep off) and rash-like stinging area I described. There’s some deeper pain at one of the eruption sites when I put pressure on it.
Where’s the oozing that will get the cancer OUT? Is oozing a sign that the cancer’s leaving, or can it leave without that? I hope someone knows the answer to that...
On the other side of the lip, above it, a new spot I treated blistered up, onto the red skin of the lip and there are some little white bumps, similar to what Marcie described. I also treated one AK on my nose that got red, but no pain there. Yea!
My face is reacting only on the exact spots where I apply the sap: it’s not spreading. Why hasn't it spread over the whole puffy area above my lip since that's clearly from the tumor? (It was a little puffy for some months before I applied the sap.) Wondering if my plants have weak sap? Is it important to take the sap from the main stem? But that reduces the # of times you can use a plant, while if you take it from the smaller branches at the top, you can use the same plant many more times. Still I’ve taken some main stem sap, too.
Like other people, I'm trying to conserve the plants: I have 4 or 5 other spots ony my face to treat. Do you think the sap in the little branches at the top is weaker than the sap in the main stem? Of course there’s less sap in them. Or is it possible that the tumor is somehow partly dead or encased? Also, does anyone know whether the clear watery sap you get from pinching a recently cut stem is potent? I assumed less so than the white sap. Please reply if you have any experience with this or know about apoptosis, etc..... |
|
|
|
Brigid
68 Posts |
Posted - 10/27/2010 : 17:21:13
|
Day 9, yellow scabbbing, hardly any oozing, very inflamed on the 2 big sites above the lip (both about 1 3/4") out to the smile lines, and 1 on the nose, which is painless, btw. My lips are flaking big pieces of dead skin. Drinking a lot of water, but it continues.
A 4th site @ the corner of the nostril was itching and getting my attention even though there was no redness. I put the PS on and sure enough: firecracker and blisters. What an amazing plant. I realized from rereading the posts that I could just cut the leaves and let the stems be. Thanks to all who posted about that. I'm putting more sap on than most people recommended b/c the areas are so big and the SCC/BCC is 2 1/2 years old.
For anyone else out there with MCS, the sap has been a little hard on my immunity. Email me if you have MCS & want more info.
Pain level after the first week intensified, 8th evening was tough. OTC pain killers don't work for this and I've gone to one day on, one day off. Still can't smile and I cut food into small pieces.
I'D REALLY APPRECIATE ADVICE ON WHEN TO STOP. I think Svanip said to keep going until the pits stop scabbing. I've been trying to keep the scabs off, but they're thicker now & hard to get off. EVEN IF YOU"VE POSTED BEFORE about how you decided to stop, PLEASE post again about how you determined the cutoff point. (I've reread over 1/2 of all the posts on this Forum but don't have the energy to read the rest today to see if there's more info on when to stop. I want to get it all out on the first go.
Sorry I can't post photos. Clearlake kindly told me how to do it, but it's more public than I want to be for now, and I'm not great w/ computers to start with. |
|
|
|
Topic |
|
|
|
Petty Spurge Herb sap for skin cancers
