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tomm

USA
3 Posts

Posted - 12/14/2007 :  18:14:54  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I have been to 6 different dermatologists and I am totally frustrated by the fact they all are different in their approaches. I have been frozen on my arms and face and back, legs etc. hundreds of times. I am very fair skined male, almost bald and have years of sun damage. I recently was told that I needed to use efudex for 4 weeks and after reading your forum and seeing the pictures, I say no way! How should I start treating my arms face and scalp? Should I start with sunspot es and then progress to eggplant and vinegar. I do not have anything that is other than scaly areas and red spots to treat. Please let me know what you might suggest? Thanks for all that you contribute. Pictures would be a great addition to the forum so people could see what people refer to. I will certainly do this. TomM

anivoc

605 Posts

Posted - 12/15/2007 :  10:51:24  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Hey Tom. Welcome to the club..

Most of us here are at some point in the same place you are. You didn't mention your age but as I see it, it appears it just goes on and on.

Dan the owner of this site has a lot of information on neutralizing our bodies which helps us to be less acidic thus a less conducive soil for skin cancer or for that matter any cancer to grow.

I'm a certain that approach has some merit.

Currently there is no set protocol here. In my opinion we are all lashing out into the darkness sometimes striking something, sometimes missing completely.

Personally I am very frustrated right now. Before coming to this forum I had already been trying a variety of alternative approaches.
The only one that absolutely worked on a bcc is bloodroot. If efudex scares you, you aren't going to want to go that route.

I'll go through the list of what I have tried and my opinion on each.
Keep in mind I am treating both AK's and BCC's and BCC's are tough to knock out.

I, like you, discovered that in the dermatological world, though there is a general consensus, the left hand does not know what the right hand is doing. Sadly just like a plumber or painter or tradesman with a "Skill" there are 1000 roads to Rome and some aren't safe or the best way to get there. Most derms are using liquid nitrogen incorrectly, You mentioned Efudex. Depending on which derm you speak to or which study you read, it is the greatest thing since sliced bread to it may actually increase the odds of future skin cancers! I was sure happy when a derm told me that after I had been using it for a few years. I used efudex off and on in the early 90's.

OK the list.

Bloodroot... Ouch! It works ..did I mention ouch?
But ouch isn't all bad. If you have ever had a BCC cut out it hurts bad too.

If you want to get totally scared away from using it go read this http://www.quackwatch.com/01QuackeryRelatedTopics/Cancer/eschar.html IMO very naive and biased opinion at quackwatch. I am certain the author is sincere..just ignorant. The first picture they show is horrifying..
It is gross but sadly ( and this is just my opinion on this) that poor woman had a horrible amount of skin cancer growing on her face and nose. It is my opinion that unfortunately the woman was going to lose her nose either way and would have needed the plastic surgery and skin grafts with Mohs as well.

They don't show you the 1000's of people who have lost their nose after having cancer removed with Mohs Surgery. The only difference is they lost it to a scalpel and had a plastic surgeon there to rebuild it when it was removed.

They go on to show another woman who lost her nose. I saw those kind of pictures before I tried bloodroot but after educating and talking personally to enough people that used it and swear by it. I went for it and had decent success...( Didn't lose a nose ...whew!) You can see pictures of my nose elsewhere on this site.

The last picture they show kind of looks like what happened with my nose.. At the point in the process that the picture is taken it looks pretty scary.. they fail to show how it healed up. My bet is it healed pretty well.
I'm not against Mohs surgery it works. Dr. Mohs originally used Bloodroot paste to reveal the cancer damaged tissue.

The biggest untruth they elude to there is that bloodroot paste effects healthy skin. That was my biggest fear and concern before using it. So when I got my first bloodroot paste I placed a dab of paste on the inside of my "never seen the sun" side of my arm and covered it with a bandage for 24 hours... no effect.. Onward I went.. big ignoramuses!

When I placed that first dab on a known BCC I knew it was working in minutes.. YIKES!


OK so what is happening? As it was explained to me cancer has a bubble or veil around it that fools the immune system into thinking it is part of the body and belongs there. Placing an escharotic like bloodroot on it burst the bubble and the the white blood cells attack the tumor killing it within 48 hours.

That is just a theory that was explained to me by a vet who makes the stuff and uses it on horses for their sarcomas, very successfully I might add.

Efudex.. I would not use it with so many other options out there.
It originally was a Chemotherapy drug. People getting Chemotherapy for serious cancers started "Breaking out" when they were given treatments and the light went on that it was killing skin cancers too.

Aldara It supposed to work pretty well..again there are other alternatives

Curaderm:
I have used it. It does do some good. I was unsuccessful at knocking out BCC's with it.

Sunspot ES:
Used as directed ( just applying it topically) I had no luck. Used using the curaderm method ( covering it with tape)( Read the sunspot es works best thread completely) I have had some success and am still working on some.

Vinegar / Eggplant:
Jury's out for me. I just don't know. I know Curaderm and Sunspot ES both use eggplant as their source of chemical to expose the tumor to the immune system. Then again I know for certain I have knocked out an AK with just vinegar.

Orange OIL:
I just don't know enough yet to say yes or no. I can say it definitely irritates the heck out of your tumors.

Baking soda:
Maybe? It sure does make your skin smoother.

Vinegar:
To a degree it knocks out AK's maybe going at them more consistently and aggressively vinegar is a viable tool. I don't know why the one on my neck died and the ones on my face didn't but I have knocked out one crusty AK on my neck using only vinegar.

Ammonia:
Certainly irritates the tumors

Cymillium:
The main ingredient is Ammonia.. I can't personally endorse this one. I've tried it but not religiously and maybe it works better than I believe.

Vitamin C paste:
Haven't tried it. yet... but it could work like Bloodroot but in a slower milder way.

Broccoli:
I'm using it mixed with eggplant along with sunspot ES. I use the sunspot es during the day and then apply a paste of eggplant, broccoli /vinegar sauce on the wound at night. I am using this method on a huge
Nodular BCC on the top of my head. It is getting UGLY.. It is painful .. But I am slooooowly eating this monster away .. I hope. I'm giving it till 2008 If I don't feel I'm getting there by then I'm going to the savages to get it cut out ...ugh!

You may wonder why I don't use the bloodroot on this big one on my head. Swelling. Knowing what I went through before with how much swelling this causes, I am afraid it might cause swelling in the brain and I don't want to go there.



If you want to get an idea of what exactly you are dealing with,
Take a shower and clean all the areas where you know you have problems well. After you get out of the shower take a wash cloth and soak it in vinegar and gently scrub all suspect areas. You will light up like a red light bulb for an hour or so and then it will subside. While lit up take a good mental picture or take photo's of yourself. You're going to have a good idea of where the problems lie. How you proceed is your choice. Alkalize for sure.

All you other guys chime in here.. As usual I'm running out of time so I need to go.. I'll come back and add to this post as time allows.

















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Martha1

50 Posts

Posted - 12/15/2007 :  17:51:43  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Tom,

I would like to add something about Cymilium, since it's the only one I have tried “religiously.” I thought the “main” ingredient in Cymilium was pancreatin, and that the ammonia was there to alkalize the area so the pancreatin could work. It does sting for a short time after application, probably due to the ammonia.

The one spot I used Cymilium on was much improved after 2 months. It did bleed and scab initially, but by the end of 2 months it seemed almost healed. In September, I went ahead with my derm appointment anyway, and after a biopsy he diagnosed it as an AK and froze it off. I kinda suspect it might have been skin cancer earlier; I had it for a long time and it had bled on and off. You can read more about it on my thread, “My experience with topical treatments.” Either way, I'm happy that it's gone, except for a small scar from the biopsy. I still check this board now and then for old time's sake.

Best wishes,
Martha
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tomm

USA
3 Posts

Posted - 12/15/2007 :  23:17:44  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
I talked to a good friend of mine who has tried lasar pulse and swears by it. Does anyone know much about it? Can it treat multiple kertosis, BCC's and SCC's etc. By the way, I am half tempted to go back to the doctor who burned me a hundred times a session, as it is over in a half an hour and I can tolerate it it barely. Anivoc, you said most doctor's are using liquid nitrogen inappropriately, what did you mean by this? Anivoc,I am 56 and starting to see the effects of many years of sunburn as a child. Thanks for your support as it gives me the strength to investigate alternatives when in my heart I know that it is all a very vague science at best. Are the pictures of the fellow who used effudex, fairly typical.
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anivoc

605 Posts

Posted - 12/16/2007 :  12:48:28  Show Profile  Reply with Quote

Tom in regards to liquid Nitrogen,Here's a blurb from skincacerinfo.com
A common improper or false treatment may occur when the doctor treating a skin cancer with the cryosurgery (liquid nitrogen) method does not also freeze a margin beyond the tumor to create an adequate ice ball time (freeze-thaw time which should be 90 seconds, in most instances). Many times, the doctor is afraid of producing a scar. However, in the case of liquid-nitrogen surgery for cancers, treating to the level recommended by the medical textbooks, almost always results in a scar. Another example of inadequate treatment is that a patient may not have received proper scraping and burning of a skin cancer if the treating doctor removes only the epidermis in the zone of the cancer.

PDT is generally now accepted as the best current approach to treating AK's, however it cost a few bucks for the V-beam laser machine so a lot of derms are not going to tell you about it or recommend it because their monetary interest comes before your best interest.. just a business fact of life..
The jury is still out on BCC's but it looks promising on superficial ones.

quote:
Originally posted by tomm

I talked to a good friend of mine who has tried lasar pulse and swears by it. Does anyone know much about it? Can it treat multiple kertosis, BCC's and SCC's etc. By the way, I am half tempted to go back to the doctor who burned me a hundred times a session, as it is over in a half an hour and I can tolerate it it barely. Anivoc, you said most doctor's are using liquid nitrogen inappropriately, what did you mean by this? Anivoc,I am 56 and starting to see the effects of many years of sunburn as a child. Thanks for your support as it gives me the strength to investigate alternatives when in my heart I know that it is all a very vague science at best. Are the pictures of the fellow who used effudex, fairly typical.

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jan

USA
18 Posts

Posted - 12/16/2007 :  18:31:17  Show Profile  Reply with Quote
Great information here, sort of a synopsis of much information elsewhere on this site. Why would my derm tell me that the ALA/light therapy doesn't work on BCC when I see here others have success??? Doesn't make one completely trust traditional medicine...also, I didn't see mention of pancreatin, which I think had the best effect for me. However, since I have been using several treatments, it's hard to know what was really working. I highly aree on the alkalyzing theory and treating the inside as well as outside.
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Disclaimer: The three most common types of skin cancer are basal cell carcinoma, squamous cell carcinoma, and melanoma. While melanoma is the most dangerous type, keep in mind that any cancer and potentially some cancer treatments can cause injury or death. The various views expressed in these public forums should not be considered as medical advice. See your qualified health-care professional for medical attention, advice, diagnosis, and treatments.