Bloodroot / Zinc Chloride Paste / Black Salve
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Topic:
Topic author: Hoxsey
Subject: Bloodroot / Zinc Chloride Paste / Black Salve
Posted on: 09/23/2012 11:44:43
Message:
Hello, I am new to this forum, and I have read many posts looking for a situation similar to mine, and found none. Well, one, but it didn't totally match up. I have a diagnosed basal cell spot on tip of nose, opted out of MOHs surgery to go the natural route, after much research on the web. I followed the protocol for application as per the alpha omega labs website (which I ordered from) Friday night (night before last). I applied to nose, and to forehead, where I knew I had another spot, undiagnosed, but I knew what it was as it felt and behaved just like my prior 2 bcc's. my face has now swelled up so badly, I look like Ia boxer at the end of a long fight. My left eye is almost swelled shut. Is this normal? I'm going to try to include a photo. I did take ibuprofen, 400mg last night, on top of the hydrocodone I take every 4-6 hours for the pain. I was getting worried about so much swelling, wondering if I need to succumb to a 'real' doc to make sure it's not an allergic reaction? Sure hope not! Any experience, suggestions? Thanks!
Replies:
Reply author: bonder
Replied on: 09/23/2012 17:18:18
Message:
Dear Hoxsey lol ( Wish I'd thought of that)...
I have used Black salve as part of a successful protocol for my nose area and pain/swelling WAS part of it.
Go to www.canceramerican.com and scroll down to bottom in order to see the pics I took including the dead cell mass pic.
Now, the swelling is not part of what you will see there but, the idea of " It gets worse before it gets better" is quite evident in the pics.
My lower lip hung down on the left side like a cartoon and hardly anything on my right. suffices to say I stayed indoors for a few days until it all went down again. I had read that this was part of the ordeal beforehand and just waited it out while staying away from ALL optional chemicals like, coffee,canned foods, frozen pizzas candy, limited the booze, just a shot or two for pain before bedtime, no fast foods etc.
In my opinion, the reason I could whack a lump as big as mine down to a divit with a border was not due to the salve alone.
I have read and experienced that the body needs to be cleansed from the inside out to get the best reaction and so, I went to the organic store and bought flax seed oil in the dark bottle to take with cottage cheese in the morning (yuck is right) but, well worth it, we have hardly any vitamin B 17 in our diet
My lump was as big as the side of my nose and sat just under it above my lip.
There seems to be a lot of opinions but I am guessing that for a lump smaller than a dime in diameter you are looking at a month or less until it is just an area no one will be staring at any longer if you do the whole body routine.
Caton's video at Omega gave me the best explanation of how the salve works and is why I eventually tried it.
Remember these words KEEP IT MOIST KEEP IT MOIST KEEP IT MOIST......
Get some white vaseoline like Aquaphor at walmart or somewhere and keep applying it after the lump falls out, drink you orange juice daily.
Try and report back here with your issues and someone will get back to you and quite quickly if you leave pics I have noticed ha!
People like to see living proof I think lol...
Keep the faith and
Be Well Always,
Bonder
Reply author: anivoc
Replied on: 09/23/2012 18:48:55
Message:
Hey Hoxey...welcome to fight club..;)
One mistake that a lot of people make (including myself) is they try and treat everything at once... it's a mistake IMO ..just to much bad juice flowing and it is really uncomfortable, painful and in my case caused nausea. You're already there so now it is just time..hang tough it will be history sooner than you think.. Ibuprofen is your friend and as Bonder says don't let the areas you treated dry out if you can avoid it. Wishing you a fast and successful recovery.
Tom
Reply author: Hoxsey
Replied on: 09/24/2012 20:02:27
Message:
Thank you so much for your responses! I slept most of the day, and the swelling has gone down a bit. My forehead is now puss-ing up, and the nose Eschar feels veerrrrry deep. I took two Benadryl last night after it was suggested that I may have had an allergic reaction, to help take the swelling down. Not sure if that helped, or if it just went down on its own. I couldn't have tolerated this without the Vicodin.
I have one more question. Well, two...
1. Should I treat the eschars with hydrogen peroxide?
2. What am I doing wrong when trying to upload pics? Tells me I need to log in, but I am!
Wow, am I ever going to have a hole in my nose! Sure hope it fills in like most pics I see!
Reply author: Hoxsey
Replied on: 09/24/2012 20:05:40
Message:
Bonder- thank you for all your contribution to this forum...
When you say keep it moist, do you mean all the time, or AFTER the Eschar falls off?
Thanks in advance!
Reply author: bonder
Replied on: 09/24/2012 22:01:09
Message:
Howdy Hoxey,
You asked about peroxide during this protocol and I would have to say that if it were me doing it again, I would still not use peroxide, I'd wake up in the morn and hold a rag of warm water over the wound on my face and
(never,ever,ever pic at the wound no matter how tempting). This is a natural process from your body's immune system forcing a foreign matter out of it which is why I wanted to keep all the crap we eat out before and especially during the healing process.
Note : If you feel like you have a small cold for a while do not be surprised, that will also go away.
If you went to canceramerican.com for the pics, then you know what I mean when I say, " it gets worse before it gets better "
but, once that sucker falls out perhaps in the morning while you are applying a rag onto it, There Will Be A Hole...
It is going to take patience,courage and some belief in others to achieve your goal. Personally, I still have a chunk sitting in rubbing alcohol for some reason lol...
As I mentioned before, the idea of adding more salve is a mistake until you have seen what comes off during the 1st round.
I went through 3 rounds until I had all of what I wanted off of me but, my lump was huge due to being too doped up on seizure medicine to react to planning correctly. ( I had to reduce the med on my own to think correctly once again).
In retrospect, it is entirely possible that one of the reasons I could go through 3 rounds with no pain killers was due to the (numbness) of my brain at the time, I do not know and will hopefully not have to try it again.
Hoxey, one thing to remember here is that once it falls out, you are now past the protective epidermis and it is open territory for other cancer-killing liquids if you have the mindset for it.
http://www.webmd.com/skin-problems-and-treatments/picture-of-the-skin
In other words, If you were to find Tom Haugen, Anivoc or Dan the owner of this site, they may be better at enlightening you on things like DMSO and orange oil. Just like a ninja warrior always finishes off his target with options if needed, in my opinion, this fight also needs a one-two punch.
If you notice in the 1st day pic I have on the site, there is a line over the tumor. That is from my incision in order to get through the epidermis with liquids before the salve use. With something as big as that sucker, I felt the only thing I was risking was infection but, I cleaned it daily and was not too worried.
Again, if it were me, I would clean with warm water, use a white vaseoline right away to help keep moist and then a 20,000 IU bottle of vitamin E after it falls out for repair and moisture. Scabbing up is not your friend here Hoxey once it is off your face if you want to limit scars.
At some point, you will see the hole getting smaller during repair phase and the lower red layer becoming new skin. For me, it was only then that I backed off and let some drying occur but, the using of vitamin E oil even in smaller amounts usually mushes up that eventually anyways and I am still applying it daily once or twice.
Keep up the good work and please tell others about these two sites if you believe in them to (pay it forward).
BTW, Anivoc or Dan might be the best bet for your answer to the reason why your pics are not uploading.
Be Well Always,
Bonder
Reply author: bonder
Replied on: 09/25/2012 22:24:05
Message:
Hoxey,
I found this today and hope it helps...
Here's how to insert a picture stored on your computer into a post:
1. First prepare a .jpg or .gif image file to be less than 90KB in size. You can go to http://www.crunch4free.net/ to reduce image file sizes if necessary.
2. Save the image file into a directory on your computer where you know the path to it (such as C:\Temp).
3. In the forum where you would like to post your message with a picture, click the "Reply to Topic" or "New Topic" at the top or bottom of the thread. Don't use the "Quick Reply" method.
4. In the forum post editing window that results, click on the paperclip icon available near the bottom just above the post changes and preview buttons.
5. Browse to the directory on your computer where you saved your picture, click on your picture file, and hit the open button.
6. Hit the upload button (or select one of your previously uploaded files).
7. Close the popup window that says your upload was successful.
8. Hit the preview button in the editing window to see if it worked, then close the preview window.
9. Write a caption or message. You can delete "Image Insert:"
10. Hit the Post Changes button and you have done it!
I hope people will find the posting picture capability useful. These instructions probably sound much more difficult than it really is.
If you are concerned about your privacy, do not upload a picture you do not want the world to see. I'm not sure if the pictures can be deleted easily once uploaded.
Reply author: Hoxsey
Replied on: 09/26/2012 10:58:28
Message:
Thank u, bonder, I will try that next. My big worry now is that it's SO deep, I may have to get reconstructive surgery after all. I say this because of how deep it feels to have gone in my nose, AND the fact that I think it has gone all the way through my nose cartilage to my nasal passage, because the pus and too is INSIDE my nostrils as well. I cleaned it out with a. Qtip last night, but decided if its gone through, or close to it, I should leave the inside alone just like the outside should be left alone. But dang, just how normal can ones nose look when that much skin dies out of it? Scaaaaaary scary time coming up for Hoxsley. I definitely had a couple of 'what the hell have I done?' Moments... But I know it was the right thing to do.
I'll try the photos again, hope to get past the 'must be logged in to use this window' screen!
Ask, this cancer on my nose was biopsied less than a year ago, and it came back as 'actinic keratosis', so they freeze sprayed it. I had it sprayed more than once. What are the chances of a cancer going from per cancer to full blown entire tip of nose in a year? Is that possible? Anybody know? Thanks for the support, fellow cancerites!
Hoxsley
Reply author: bonder
Replied on: 09/26/2012 13:34:22
Message:
Hoxey,
From what I am reading here and without benefit of a picture, it seems that this small area on the tip of your nose is not the (fleshy part) at the very end but, above the bone ? Because if I try to imagine sticking a needle through the very end of my nose to then go through the bone,or (cartilage area) that is a long drive dude...
See, as I understand it, depending upon the mixture, Black salve usually travels through cancer and eats up the camo hiding it from the immune system then, once it can see it ,the body uses it's normal way of kicking out a foreign material like it pushes out an infection.
So as you mentioned, unless your wound went from an AK to a full blown basal or squamous in less than a year, I have to wonder if you might be kicking out something else inside there that the salve just sort of (unmasked) for your body to see ?
In any case, through my experience and research, a black salve will send out (tentacles) like an octopus to go after cancer but, then it stops when the body's immune system says " Hey, get the ..ck out of here and take your cancer crap with you ! "
Then its back to healing like all wounds do under normal circumstances AND this supposes that you are not so full of coffee, booze, pizza and illegal drugs that your immune system is too busy fighting all that to heal the cancer.
Check out this guy removing a simple mole with black salve (watch it all) he sort of looks like Castro but, he is from NYC lol...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1P5Kn2ijJ00
http://youtu.be/8R8fEMkDvro
This is an example of what can happen above the neck for healing naturally along with eating right.
I'm no doctor but, like my pictures show, it gets worse before it gets better....
Be Well Always,
Bonder
Reply author: Hoxsey
Replied on: 09/26/2012 15:35:13
Message:
Bonder-
I am working on the diet thing, as it has been pretty baaaaad in the past. Lots of sugar, processed foods, etc. during this time, I have been eating very little, to give my body energy to put towards healing. I have had a few veggie juices from local health food store, eaten some fruits, I did do the cottage cheese thing before, too, but with ground flax seed, not the oil.
I got scared today about what I'm going to look like after this huge thing falls off of my nose, so I called the aolabs and they reassured me that it grows back. My biggest concern is that I am pretty sure the cancer had grown all the way down Affecting the nasal passages. You know the photo of the lady on the quack watch site that had most of her nose gone after applying a fake salve? Well, that's what I fear I will look like after this comes off! Not really attractive, ya know?
Ugh. Anyhow, thank you again, I am going to see if my pc will upload the pics that my iPad seems unable to...
Reply author: anivoc
Replied on: 09/26/2012 16:36:25
Message:
Hi Hoxey,
I want to clarify about the picture of the poor woman on quack watch.
That picture is not what she looked like after Bloodroot paste..it's what she looked like during plastic surgery.
I don't have the exact story at hand but as I recall it, This woman had skin cancer all over her face and applied bloodroot paste everywhere..Not for the faint of heart and definitely not anything I would recommend. I don't think she got bad bloodroot paste I think she tried to treat too large of an area at one time. That's how I recall it..
Reply author: bonder
Replied on: 09/26/2012 17:12:58
Message:
Anivoc, Thats Da Man...
I was thinking about that picture of the lady and the quack that seems to be the largest (Big Pharma) advocate Doctor bashing alternatives everywhere I looked...
Here is what surgeons can really do if you need it...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=53FFUbnlzos
But, b4 you get ahead of yourself,I'd get your pics up here and then see what some folks have to say.
Be Well Always,
Bonder
Reply author: Hoxsey
Replied on: 09/26/2012 17:52:54
Message:
photo worked on my pc. The nose spot- It's pretty big, this is the exact area that the salve touched, wherever salve was, it turned. I'm pretty sure there's more, but thank god I didn't do an even bigger spot! It's been very painful and feels quite deep. Anivoc- thank you for that info, I thought I had read that she did another treatment that was a fake salve or something....
Reply author: bonder
Replied on: 09/26/2012 21:02:00
Message:
Hoxsey,
Ok, no big surprise that you have an oval-shaped pattern turning brown colors...
There is a lot of redness on the nose compared to the forehead however.
I have read here that others have put a dab of the salve on a part of their arm or leg to see what sort of reaction occurs to skin without cancer and determine if there is any allergics involved.
As you know, you can be allergic to dust, vegetables or whatever...
I think one of the most important things I did was get vaseline all over the wound and keep after it and get warm water on it several times a day as well but, for sure in the morning.
Before you came to this site, you followed the directions that came with the package right?
What is the full name of the product you bought and does it indicate DMSO as an ingredient ?
Be Well Always,
Bonder
P.S.
A thought for medical professionals if you are inclined.
This is going to sound bizarre but, if you don't have both wounds biopsied yet, I'd get 2 cleaned out glass bottles from spaghetti sauce or whatever and pour enough rubbing alcohol into them in order to cover the lumps that falls out in case you do want to know what it was that fell off. Make sure to keep them covered.
Reply author: Thomas Haugen
Replied on: 09/27/2012 08:41:02
Message:
Hoxsey,
Your nose wound looks like your immune system is in full response against the cancer cells as the redness/swelling indicates. Dead cancer cells are (deconstructed) and the intercellular stuff also is carried away through the bloodstream. As others have stated, the main cancer mass may come off your nose in one glob. Afterwards your nose prolly will have a depression(there's a medical term for it) where the mass was, and the new skin prolly will be redder than normal.
The good news is most skin cancers don't get as deep as you fear, so you may heal without needing extensive surgery. Google Mohs Surgery and then click on Images and you'll see lots of people who got a lot of scalpel work but none of them (IFAIK) got into the nasal passages. If you can heal up the wound by keeping it moist, then over the following months the depression prolly will start to fill in with healthy flesh and on the surface the skin will gradually lose the redness. My wound on the end of my nose became barely noticeable after a year in this exact process. Solid paste makeup will be your friend after the skin heals.
About your forehead, you now know why others have advised against treating more than one spot at a time. A strong immune system might be able to respond well to multiple wounds, but then again, maybe not. On the other hand there is the desire to get these hideous cancers over and done with and get your face back to normal. Your forehead doesn't look like the experience of others. That's why Bonder and Anivoc are asking what salve you used.
Some quacks added sulfuric acid to their salve formulas which kills normal cells. Buying known formulas and testing them on healthy skin appears to be the best Caveat Emptor.
Tom
Reply author: Hoxsey
Replied on: 09/27/2012 13:58:13
Message:
Yes, I ordered from alpha omega labs, I got the 'amazon deep tissue black topical salve'. I tried it on 2 areas prior to facial application, and it did nothing more than turn red for a few days. My nose is confirmed basal cell. My forehead was never biopsied. I do know it was at least per cancerous. (The forehead.)
The ingredients are listed as:
The original Amazon original salve formula has evolved over time, largely to improve performance and minimize pain management issues. The current ingredients of the original formula are, listed in order by weight: zinc chloride (ZnCl2), chapparal (Larrea mexicata leaf [contains active principle: NDGA (nordihydrogauaretic acid, 17% by weight)]), glycerine (used as a humectant, to keep the product moist), graviola leaf extract (distilled water, Annona muricata), oleander leaf extract (distilled water, Nerium oleander), and sanguinaria root powder (Sanguinaria canadensis).
At least the packaging it came in says alpha omega labs, and looks just like what is on their website...I haven't gone back to look at receipt or email to confirm-
do the fraudulent companies use identical packaging?
My cheeks (or maybe I should say 'jowls') are puffy in that photo as the swelling has slowly traveled down my face. I am sure my immune system is not very strong, and I now understand the importance of ONE SPOT AT A TIME. I only did 2 because I never imagined they would both react under the entire treated areas! Lesson learned.
I am just disgusted at how the FDA and AMA have controlled our options in health care, and have MISguided the American public as to what works regarding healing ourselves.
What a sad state our country is in.
Thank you again for your responses... I certainly couldn't have done this without the benefit of these forums and websites dedicated to opening up this world I never before knew existed, or knew was an option! (The natural cancer cures) I plan on getting my whole story out there among them somehow, once the process is complete, so others may have one more positive proof that its not quackery, it works.
Reply author: bonder
Replied on: 09/27/2012 19:23:50
Message:
Ok Hoxsey,
If the recipe for your product is (by weight) and the 1st item is zinc chloride and the last is (Sanguinaria canadensis) AKA Bloodroot, then in my opinion you just chose a recipe much different than many others which are largely made of Bloodroot...
I'd be interested in anyone else's opinion here... so, the caustic nature of Zinc chloride is probably why it is called
(deep tissue.) and probably why you have more reaction to it and not due to any allergies or other issues.
Obviously, you should seek professional advice if you see fit.
If it were me, I'd be ingesting lots of carrot juice with apples (preferably in a juicer), take in lots of water,rice, greens and (soft gel or liquid ) multivitamins like the ones linked to the banner at the bottom of www.canceramerican.com
Although they are pretty cheap, you don't need to buy there but, you can sure listen to what the natural doc says in the videos and see what they look like etc. Discount store hard vitamins are a waste of money during healing times.
20,000 IU vitamin E liquid is quite important here to be rubbed on after the glob falls off until the wound is pretty much minimal.
I was talking to a guy at a place I bring my used clothing to today and he told me a story of a friend who was diagnosed with stomach cancer like his father and uncle before him. The friend told him there was no way he would go through the proceedures like the others only to suffer and then just die...
The friend totally changed his eating habits, did the juicing, used an enema bag for cleansing and he has been doing it since the 1980's and still today. so, I pay it forward...
All of this info can be found on the net and I feel a lot of it is in the videos on my website.
Be Well Always,
Bonder
Reply author: Hoxsey
Replied on: 09/27/2012 19:45:02
Message:
Bonder- Well, crap! Why do you mention seeking professional advice? Do you think I have hurt myself here with this recipe?? You don't think my forehead is reacting from skin cancer, just possibly from sensitivity to what has been put on it?
Now I am wigging out a bit. I'm going to feel like and idiot for doing this to myself if I am now scarred for life!? Oh boy....
Reply author: Hoxsey
Replied on: 09/27/2012 22:31:25
Message:
Ps- I have been loading up on vegetables and have been getting juices that are mainly carrot and apple among other veggies from the local health food store. Tomorrow I just might have juices only. My daily vitamin is from a company called mega food, it's one hundred percent whole food based. I have read that typical grocery store ones are crap. I take fish oil (from a good company as well)!and have flaxseed oil, from the grocery store. Not sure if the maker is very good or not...
I watched 'forks over knives' today, and have been doing a lot of research regarding how the foods we eat are the primary source of what makes us sick, and I am trying to slowly make changes in my diet to be more healthy. It's tough. Another good one is 'fat, sick and nearly dead', if you havent seen it. I highly recommend!
Reply author: bonder
Replied on: 09/27/2012 23:43:28
Message:
Hoxey,
Here is the deal when you self-medicate...
You run the risk of over-doing it and while I think you will heal like everyone else,the (double dose) you put on may not be much fun for a while fore sure so, I'd be a jerk not to remind you that one can go to emc and ask their opinion, reflect on what they suggest and decide if you just want to wait it out or have them do something for you to make things easier
Nobody says you have to go to a surgeon tonight and have surgery but, always keep in mind that those guys see people with burns, cuts etc. every day.
Zinc chloride is no party favor and while we are talking about a small chance, you must consider that you might be sensitive to it.
SCARRED FOR LIFE IS AN OVER-STATEMENT.
Longer to heal is more accurate in my opinion which is why it is imperative that you watch what goes into your system and keep things moist
Nobody wants bad news but, you came here for truthful information good and bad...
I think the (good news) Is what Haugen said about no nasal passage issues typically.
Be Well Always,
Bonder
Reply author: Hoxsey
Replied on: 10/01/2012 00:33:55
Message:
Ok, it's been a few days to 'see what happens" with my two treated cancer spots... - Unfortunately, I MUST be of those cases that ends up with a MUCH worse case than most people experience. :( Crap.
-The eschar is still attached to my nose, but it's loose enough that tonight, I could pull the top part away enough to see that my worst fear/outcome is going to be my reality. I can see my nose cartilage underneath the eschar, and I can even pull air through the top/front area of my nose if I completely clog my nostrils. To put it bluntly, there is no skin left under the eschar to regenerate NEW SKIN outward from the center of the eschar pit???!!(it's going to be an open PIT, exposing my nasal cartilage and nasal passages to the WORLD!!!) (YAY!). What do I do now?) Yes, I have had the 'Holy ****, what have I done??!! thought...) I'm past it, because what's done is done. I have to move forward now.
Any personal experience/heard of others' experiences with this??????
(I have only heard of one individual, personally.... He did a black salve like I did, and ended up with such deep penetration it exposed the internal nasal passages like me...) that he had to have plastic surgery to fix it. -Which is what I was trying to avoid from the start, of course, but I suppose you never know until you start cutting or salving, eh?)
But seriously, from ALL of the photo documentaries I checked out online, I have not seen one case where this has happened to another individual using a herbal remedy... (The first one I saw and that completely convinced me to do this was Bill Oleary's blog. Just google "Bill oleary cancer" and it will be the first webpage to come up on Google. Scroll down from there and you see his photo journal...)
Sooooo, am I just an unlucky, unusual cancer individual, or is this an uncommon, but known sort of case where an individual has such an aggressive basal cell cancer on their nose that it has eaten up more skin than can be naturally regenerated????? How does a hole in the middle/front of your nose naturally fill in with no skin left underneath in the center????? I had my nose biopsied about a year ago, and it was 'diagnosed' as 'actinic keratosis', or 'pre-cancer'. (and has been 'treated' with freeze therapy three times since then.)
Can it really go from being a basal cell pre-cancer to full blown 'it's the entire tip of your freakin nose' BCC in less than a year??????? I have heard basal cell was a slow grower. : /
Understandably, as you can imagine, I am sickened and freaked out by my personal revelation tonight- that the salve went completely through my nose down to my nasal passages.... The only thing that makes my mind feel halfway ok right now is that I have faith that the salve only took out CANCEROUS cells, not normal skin cells, and that a Moh's surgery would have taken more, and would have had much more initial scarring. I did test this salve on two suspicious skin spots prior to application on my known basal cell cancer spot, (one on my inner arm, one on my shin.) but nothing happened more than they got a bit red. Yes, I used a 'deep tissue salve' that has DMSO in it, but would that kill regular skin cells???? I didn't think so.
I believed, instinctively, that this was THE RIGHT thing to do once I saw so many salve photo healings online. Unfortunately, mine reacted like no other I have seen, where its so deep, the center of the cancer spot is gone/open??? Will it grow back in from the center somehow? I have heard that it can/will. I just don't see how it could..... yet, on others I suppose (now that I think back) that I have seen a breast cancer come completely out of a breast from @ the breast center, and the skin tissue came back together.... I don't know how that happens!?
Ok, so from all of this, I have two questions:
1. Does anybody have evidence to prove my nose might fill back in, from an empty center, or will I need reconstructive surgery to look normal again?
2. Is there some chance that the 'deep tissue' formula containing the DMSO somehow burned through my healthy tissues?
I cannot tell you how much your unpaid/experienced responses mean to me. I mean to pay it all forward.
(got many great chances today because everyone that sees bandages on your face is compelled to ask what happened, so I 'witnessed' to about 5 individuals today about how wacked our AMA and FDA are, and how Criminal it is that they hide all of this in our country!!!!!!!) :o)
PS- I have many many photos if anyone wants to see more evidence of what I am going through....
Reply author: bonder
Replied on: 10/01/2012 17:33:52
Message:
Hoxey,
Luckily skin usually grows from the outside-in so I'm thinking things will still be ok IF... (you leave the eschar alone)
My wound did not go to a cartilage but, went down far enough to see deeper tissue layers for sure.
Eventually, most salve wounds just get smaller and smaller.
If you could, post some pics of what you are trying to describe here so others can get a better grasp of what is happening A.S.A.P.
Be well always,
Bonder
Reply author: Hoxsey
Replied on: 10/02/2012 13:50:27
Message:
Yes Bonder,
I do need to post more pictures, and I am going to now. I can't seem to do it from my iPad, so I have to trudge over to my sloooow PC to get the job done!
The Eschar has not come off of my nose. I am getting a little concerned only because of how 'attached' it still feels on the bottom, or lower section. I am also struggling with keeping the edges moist, yet not covering it too much because it's my understanding that the eschar needs to be 'dried out' to shrivel up and come off. So what I have is an eschar that needs to stay dry, and borders that all need to stay moist!
-Am I correct in my thinking, or can/should I just keep this thing covered and totally moist all around all the time?
Pics to come, next post!
Reply author: Hoxsey
Replied on: 10/02/2012 14:22:19
Message:
Removed pic.
Reply author: bonder
Replied on: 10/02/2012 20:56:27
Message:
Hoxsey,
My experience was warm water all over the mass and the vaseline or vitamin E all over as well.
The mass will probably shrivel in size regardless but, scar tissue is better when kept moist longer which means keeping moist well past the time the mass falls out.
Also, these are often deep connections and need time come off, rushing it is not a good idea....
Be well always,
Bonder
Reply author: Lily44
Replied on: 10/05/2012 13:07:36
Message:
Hi HOXSEY:
Just wondering how you are doing today. I check on this forum almost every time I log on to see if there are any new post. I hope everything turns out well for you.
Reply author: Hoxsey
Replied on: 10/05/2012 14:02:26
Message:
Hi lily44...
Well, the forehead Eschar came off today, and it looks good underneath. It's kind of pitted, like I had expected. The nose Eschar is pretty loose but still seems attached near the bottom. It's quite scary and pretty traumatic to look at when I lift it and peek under. I feel quite like a freak show, or that I will look like one when it comes off. I am totally having second thoughts about going this route. I hope I can soon look back at this and say 'well, everything turned out alright, I need not have worried'. Right now, under the Eschar, I do not have a nose tip. It feels like I have mauled myself, deformed my nose, possibly for good/forever. Yes, people keep telling me it may fill in, but right now... It just seems like an impossibility. If my nose tip just miraculously grows back from a completely open hole, (and looks normal enough to not have surgery to look normal again) it will be one of, if not THE most miraculous thing I have ever seen.
On the plus side, like every online story I have read, there has been no sign of infection whatsoever in either spot. I'm unsure why they seem unable to get infected, but that's all i ever read, and it has been my experience as well.
I'll try to post updates as I heal.
Reply author: anivoc
Replied on: 10/05/2012 15:51:31
Message:
Hi Hoxsey..
First things first ..who told you to let the eschar stay dry? That is exactly the opposite of what I was told and did with decent results..I used chickweed salve that is mainly beeswax and olive oil. I always kept my lesions covered especially after the eschar fell out.
I've heard of other people using auquaphor.. Anyway not sure which is "right" but that's how I dealt with mine.
One thing for sure we are not supposed to pull on the eschar..we need to let it fall out on it's own..
...really sorry that you like so many of us here have to go through this skin cancer hassle. Your's are especially tough because of where they are and the magnitude of the size... Bonder sure had a big one under his nose that he is healing nicely from .
Our aesthetics are really important and for women even more so... I remember complaining to a nephew of mine about the scars and he said yeah but a few scars add character.. Well as guy yeah maybe..for you ladies not so much.
IMO and bottom line as far as you doing this or going traditional. In my experience bloodroot paste knocks out the tumor...it does not take damage healthy skin.. I applied the same paste that went crazy on my lesions on the inside of my thigh ( where the sun don't shine ever) and had zero effect on that healthy skin..
So what does that say? Again just my opinion but the major loss of skin you have experienced was tumor and if you had gone the Mohs surgery route they would have had to take easily as much and likely much more to get all the bad tissue. Once they were done removing all the diseased tissue they would perform plastic surgery to improve the aesthetic end result. Once you are through with this treatment if you are unhappy with the end results you can have plastic surgery too if you so choose. I was lucky the one on my nose was very small fell out and healed amazingly nice. The ones on my foreheads left some scars but they were much bigger lesions.
I am hoping and praying the best outcome for you.. hang in there.
Tom
Reply author: Hoxsey
Replied on: 10/08/2012 21:45:45
Message:
I wasn't told to let it stay dry, what I wrote last is a bit confusing. I am keeping them moist for sure. I use vitamin e oil sometimes, but mostly now am using aquaphor. It's day 17, and the nose Eschar still has not come off. It still itches too, so I suppose it is still doing its thing and healing/killing the deepest cancer cells. Forehead it'll itching as well. Just an update, wanted to clear up the moist/dry confusion.
The saga continues!!!
Reply author: Hoxsey
Replied on: 10/08/2012 21:50:31
Message:
quote:
Originally posted by Hoxsey
I wasn't told to let it stay dry, what I wrote last is a bit confusing. I am keeping them moist for sure. I use vitamin e oil sometimes, but mostly now am using aquaphor. It's day 17, and the nose Eschar still has not come off. It still itches too, so I suppose it is still doing its thing and healing/killing the deepest cancer cells. Forehead it'll itching as well. I am still sometimes taking an anti itch Benadryl type medication. Just an update for anyone interested, and I wanted to clear up the moist/dry confusion. Tom- I agree...scars on men='cool'...on women , 'not so much'!! But it does add character!
My saga continues...
Reply author: Lily44
Replied on: 10/09/2012 14:22:27
Message:
HI HOXSEY:
Not many people would have a sense of humor in your situation. I'd say you must be a very wonderful, and brave person. I wish only the best outcome for you.
Reply author: cvxixi
Replied on: 10/10/2012 16:35:29
Message:
Hoxsey-
I have a BCC on my nose, and will be having Moh's surgery on the 25th of October. Thank you so much for sharing your story!
Do you have an updated photo to share? I'd love to see the gradual results. From what I've seen online, it looks like your wound is very similar to all of the others'
Reply author: Hoxsey
Replied on: 10/10/2012 18:59:00
Message:
Thank you, lily44... Cvxixi- good luck with your surgery! I hope it's not very deep... My Eschar is about to drop off. Ick! Once it does... It will be countdown to see what happens. I know I should have faith, but if somebody had the end of their nose cut off, would it just grow back? No. I'm not sure how this is any different, but I am going to find out, whether I like it or not! I'll send pic in next post...
Reply author: Hoxsey
Replied on: 10/10/2012 19:13:21
Message:
Removed pic.
Reply author: cvxixi
Replied on: 10/10/2012 19:23:56
Message:
Do you have any photos of the original BCC?
Reply author: Lily44
Replied on: 10/10/2012 22:20:19
Message:
[quote]Originally posted by Hoxsey
It looked just like a tiny spot...
I have a spot on the side of my nose that looks worse than that. I just wonder if maybe you got a hold of some "bad" salve. I've never tried black salve, and probably would never use it on my face, maybe some place less visible. Best of luck to you.
Reply author: Hoxsey
Replied on: 10/10/2012 23:03:25
Message:
I will double check who I ordered from, but I think it was alpha omega labs... That's what the container says. But I will double check. I have heard that there are copycat companies. Wouldn't that be a bitch! But I have also read that those (or that ) company(ies?) use ingredients that do nothing at all. (?)
Reply author: anivoc
Replied on: 10/10/2012 23:14:49
Message:
Hi Hoxsey,
I have to admit having never seen the before picture before, I am really surprised how much tumor was there. I have a few questions ..
You mentioned you tried it on a test area i.e. and area that you were sure was healthy skin before using it on the diagnosed BCC..Did you leave the paste on that healthy area for 24 hours?
On the picture is this the worst it ever looked before applying the paste?
Did it ever bleed?
When you applied the paste how much did you apply on that tiny spot?
Please do confirm that you did buy this from the real "Alpha Omega Labs"
Reply author: bonder
Replied on: 10/11/2012 09:22:49
Message:
Okidokey Hoxsey :)
You seem to be at the (Gets worse before it gets better) stage...
(Now) in my opinion, is the most crucial time to treat the area to aid in scar minimization.
So, when the mass falls out,if it were me, the idea would be to get a clean & warm wet cloth in there every morning to soak it. Then,once it dries from the water apply the gel throughout the day to keep moist.
KEEP THOSE VITAMIN C SUPPLEMENTS GOIN !
Anivoc has asked some very important questions here and he was the guy I asked the most questions from when I wanted to know about Bloodroot so I hope you respond to him.
These are all important.
1.You mentioned you tried it on a test area i.e. and area that you were sure was healthy skin before using it on the diagnosed BCC..Did you leave the paste on that healthy area for 24 hours?
2.On the picture is this the worst it ever looked before applying the paste?
(In other words, did it get much worse and you finally said "ugh, I'm tired of this getting worse and worse so, I'll try bloodroot")
3.Did it ever bleed?
4.When you applied the paste how much did you apply on that tiny spot?
(Some people first use the size of a grain of rice and others start with the size of a finger full).
Hoxsey, if you notice once again on your forehead as with the area under my nose, it is easy to see that the paste seems to work in a (Uniform Cylindrical Manner). On your nose, the shot is a bit squashed to be able to see but the mass is certainly not (jagged) in structure.
I don't yet know if this is due only to bloodroot or just how the immune system works on the face.
Before bed, I rubbed a finger full of vitamin E oil over it.
My guess is, slowly but surely you will see the hole getting smaller and pink skin forming there.
One thing to consider is, the mass on your forehead is probably easier to heal.
You might be able to judge what is going to happen there first....
Keep up the good work,
Be Well Always...
Bonder
Reply author: Hoxsey
Replied on: 10/11/2012 20:24:55
Message:
Hi Antioch and Bonder!
Yep, I'm am at the worse before better stage as I still strongly believe I will need corrective surgery to look normal again. Oh well!! At the least, hopefully I got it all, and took out less tissue than MOHs surgery would have. It sucks that the scary pictures of forehead flap surgeries and scars that led me to learning about black salve are likely going to be in my future anyway. But why cry over spilled milk?
I have not yet confirmed where I purchased my salve, but I will call them tomorrow to find out. Here are the answers to your questions:
1. Yes, I covered and left the salve on 2 spots for 24 hours, one on my inner upper arm, and one on my shin. All my skin did was get a tad red, nothing more, no reaction.
2. This pic is not the best, does not show the bcc area very well, but it was the easiest one to share as it was already on my ipad. The funny (maybe the wrong adjective to use?) thing is that about a year ago, it was biopsies and came back as pre cancer, or actinic keratosis. I have had it 'frozen' about three times. It continued to bleed every now and then, and never stopped being a little red spot. The derm said the redness would eventually go away. Seeing as it never did, and that it still bled, I wanted a second opinion/biopsy, and sure enough, it came back positive as a bcc. I'm thinking the first biopsy was not taken properly, or was mis diagnosed. I was not impressed with that derm, and went to another one for the MOHs surgery I had on my upper lip, that the unimpressed derm biopsied. ( I had both spots biopsied at the same time, as they both would bleed every now and again, looked and behaved exactly the same.)
3. Yes, it bled if rubbed vigorously when washing my face with a washcloth.
4. I put the salve all over the tip of my nose. I wanted to get it all, and any little satellite cells that may be around it. As I said before, everywhere the salve was applied, my skin reacted on my face. So that leads me to believe there has got to be more. 
I am keeping it covered at all times, (for the weak of heart and the general publics sake!!) and use the aquaphor cream to keep both spots moist. Will continue to until it is completely healed, or until I have surgery...
The Eschar is literally hanging by one strand now. I'm leaving it to fall off, no pulling, no rush! It's pretty freaky to lift it and look under though. Wowza... i never thought I would see my nose look like this! I just cannot imagine people dealing with disfigurement who do not have the money or means to have it fixed. So, things could be much, much worse, and I realize this. I never much liked my nose. Of course, I would love to have the nose i hated back! Just makes you realize how silly it is to be hard on ones self, when its easy to forget how lucky you are to have what you have, in that regard. I guess it's human nature, eh? Sill, looking at my nose in the mirror makes me look back and realize I had a great nose compared to this!!
Not sure why I just went off on that tangent.
That's it for now! I'll be back with updates as they come up.
Cheers!
Reply author: anivoc
Replied on: 10/11/2012 20:53:51
Message:
Hats off to you Hoxey! Great attitude.
Interesting what you said about how it effects anywhere on your face. I am wondering if bloodroot paste attacks any sun damaged skin be it pre AK or full on BCC.
Reply author: Hoxsey
Replied on: 10/12/2012 08:47:34
Message:
Anivoc-
I thought it did, from whati remember reading here and there, but not positive. I am looking into doing Gerson therapy to treat the rest of me, and avoid any more holes in my face or body! :)
Reply author: anivoc
Replied on: 10/13/2012 12:27:20
Message:
Hi Hoxsey..
I'm all for better nutrition but ..
Here's a link that seems to take a reasonable look into the therapy for you to draw your own conclusion..
http://www.cam-cancer.org/CAM-Summaries/Dietary-approaches/Gerson-therapy/Does-it-work
Not sure if you were planning on going to the clinic or doing it on your own..but if I was going to try the clinic ( at $5500 a week) I would ask for some previous customer references. I'd speak to several and qualify that they are real and sincere. Before I ever tried Bloodroot paste I spoke with ( on the phone or via e-mail) at least 10 people who had used it personally.
As a contractor I was always able to provide a list of happy customers..they should be able to do the same ..if they can't it is because they don't have them...
Reply author: bonder
Replied on: 10/13/2012 17:59:43
Message:
Good point Anivoc,
Here is some more text...
The Gerson Institute provides a newsletter and contact details of support groups run by long-term recovered patients. The Gerson Institute offers a list of “Recovered Patient Referrals” to prospective new patients. Further details of the Gerson network are set out on their website.
http://gerson.org/gerpress
Charlotte Gerson has continued her father's work much more than most (with) a degree in medicine do.
While it is true that the clinic stays are expensive, you can learn a lot just from some of the videos on www.canceramerican.com and go on from there to study. If you listen to Dr. Blaylock (Neurosurgeon), the diet most of us eat is the playground cancer lives in along with many other illnesses and the more of a (raw food) sort of diet is having a tremendous effect.
But, don't expect to get that from the AMA or NCI,why admit you are wrong when keeping up the facade keeps paying the bills ?
For a very long time they had me convinced there was no other way than the knife available.
When the cavemen screwed that up on me, I did some significant research of my own....
Be Well Always,
Bonder
Reply author: anivoc
Replied on: 10/13/2012 20:33:40
Message:
Bonder you are a good man!
Thanks for digging deeper and providing the info above...
As you always say.. "Be Well" my brother!
Reply author: Hoxsey
Replied on: 10/14/2012 12:53:28
Message:
Hi guys! Well, to be more specific, I am not looking into going to a gerson clinic, I'm just fascinated by all I have read about it online, and in videos. I am juicing some and studying up on the what and whys of food as your cause of disease, and using real food as your healer. I looked at the cam cancer site, and wasn't impressed at who they name as backers for the trials and researching. I am also wondering why they don't check out and list black salve a remedy?
Well, my big news is that the Eschar came off night before last! Boy, it felt like such a Huge Event! It looks EXTREMELY clean underneath, but I prefer not to look at it much. It's been kept bandaged and moist ever since and I'm not taking it off until tomorrow night. Yes, I am taking photos, and still hope for a positive outcome so I may list another success story!
Reply author: bonder
Replied on: 10/14/2012 14:17:59
Message:
Hey There Hoxsey
Oh happy day it finally all came out YAY !!
Now its just sort of (wait n watch), keeping moist and clean as I recall. It was kind of strange waiting for my top layer of skin to grow back in place of a red and (open) look.
How is the forehead looking ? If you have about an hour to spend, maybe scroll down on www.canceramerican.com to watch Dr. Russell Blaylock the neurosurgeon speak about (excitotoxins). He seems pretty well convinced that industry is (dumbing down American society). He also seems to feel that these poisons are exhausting our cells and immune systems.
I spent a bit of time around some of those with seven zeros in their bank balances and I noticed they rarely spent any time in fast food joints...
Here is a good link for this sunday www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDVNGW76-uA&feature=related" target="_blank">http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eDVNGW76-uA&feature=related
Be Well Always,
Bonder
Reply author: Hoxsey
Replied on: 10/14/2012 23:21:34
Message:
For the full effect, and just in time for Halloween, I am sending the pic of what I have to work with. I am glad it's off, but cannot wait for it to fill in, at least as much as it can. Anyhoo, here goes. 'Enjoy!' 
...aaaand there went nothing. Files are too large, will try again tomorrow. It's late.
Reply author: Hoxsey
Replied on: 10/15/2012 16:15:59
Message:
I'm am CONFIRMED! I just called alpha omega labs, and they confirmed that it was them that I ordered the deep tissue bs from. So that's a relief.
Reply author: Hoxsey
Replied on: 10/15/2012 16:30:45
Message:
Removed pic
Reply author: bonder
Replied on: 10/16/2012 09:30:10
Message:
MAN NEWS TRAVELS FAST ....
But, you went onto the UK google under black salve search
http://www.google.co.uk/search?q=black+salve&hl=en&newwindow=1&prmd=imvns&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=Imx9UK_lKMbqiwKss4HADg&ved=0CAcQ_AUoAQ&biw=1280&bih=567
I guess my news was (too good)...
Keep up the good work,
Be Well Always,
Bonder
Reply author: Hoxsey
Replied on: 10/16/2012 15:11:43
Message:
Hey Bonder!
Well, I have the dumbing down of America still in my open window of many to watch... I had to go to YouTube to get the full version.( you are referring to the story of the dad who wanted his son to study max gerson?) I think that's the one? Correct me if I am wrong...
Now, I am struggling to understand your last post... News? What news? What did you mean about me searching the uk google black salve? Forgive me, but I' am completely lost at what all of that meant. A I missing something?
How bout the hole in my nose? What you think/ever seen such a deep case in that region?
One question, for anybody that may have official proof or know for scientific fact which of these two opinions are correct...,. (I am starting to believe that either way will suffice and will heal pretty much the same either way) i keep hearing 'keep it covered/moist', then 'keep it open, let it breathe', bask and forth, back and forth. The last thing I remember reading, from what source, I cannot honestly say at this point, that wounds scar less, or heal faster/better by keeping moist. I keep them covered with aquaphor, and pure vitamin e oil, so far at least, but am really worried I may make the wrong choice, as my nose will need all the help it can get!
Help?
Reply author: Lily44
Replied on: 10/16/2012 16:25:42
Message:
Your "battle scars" seem to be filling in already. Maybe you'll only need a minimal amount of corrective surgery.
I don't know which is correct, moist or dry.
I had a large cysts removed from the top of my hand in March. The doctor said to keep it dry, and uncovered. It got to looking cruddy, with redness and swelling. I mixed up some Neosporin and honey, and smeared it on. I kept a bandage on it most of the time, especially at night. When I went back for a check-up he said it looked good. I didn't tell him I disobeyed his orders. Now the scar is barely visible.
Best of luck to you.
Reply author: Hoxsey
Replied on: 10/16/2012 16:45:30
Message:
Lily- heck, I almost now HAVE TO do my own research on o conventional doctors 'orders', ya know? Glad your scar is barely there... As I said before, I am starting to believe its going to be fine either way. I am not doing both... Leaving it open for short times, and keeping it covered, most of the time.
Reply author: bonder
Replied on: 10/16/2012 18:30:23
Message:
Yeah, its pretty hard to get a decent opinion these days....
On www.canceramerican.com there are 2 videos from Dr. Russell Blaylock, the short one actually refers to (the dumbing-down of society) and the longer one tells quite a bit about (excitotoxins.)
All I can say is keeping things moist worked out quite well for me I feel.
Be Well Always,
Bonder
Image Insert:www.topicalinfo.org/forum/uploaded/bonder/20121019182051_SIDEFACEBLUR1A.jpg" border="0">
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Reply author: Lily44
Replied on: 10/28/2012 16:25:32
Message:
Bonder:
Looking good.
Hoxsey:
You haven't posted in a few days. I was just wondering if the spots are filling in.
Reply author: bonder
Replied on: 10/31/2012 13:52:06
Message:
Thanx Lily,
I am sure I won't ever be the same as before but,considering my obstacles lately I am pleased enough....
I am wondering if Hoxsey will ever post again after I found her face pic displayed on the U.K. Google link from my post
above ? It may be a bit scary if someone is new to this stuff.
I must say, she seems remarkably composed about it all which is in her favor.
For a wound as small as hers, the results seem uncommon to me and my research into Black Salve which I don't like to see but, all one can do is try to help.
I am relation to a government lawyer and my research is probably different than most.
A bit off the mark but today on www.canceramerican.com I found this link that may be hopeful for cancer in men if anyone thinks there may be a problem.
www.nanowerk.com/news2/newsid=26984.php" target="_blank">http://www.nanowerk.com/news2/newsid=26984.php
Be Well Always,
Bonder
Reply author: Hoxsey
Replied on: 10/31/2012 16:09:20
Message:
Lily-
I am doing ok, thank you. I am pretty certain I will need reconstructive surgery on my nose. It sucks, but it's my reality.
But no, I don't regret going this route. I believe I have more tissue to work with now, than I would have had if I elected to get MOHs.
But the edges are healing up well, and my forehead looks really good. I will say that if anyone else chooses to use black salve, and it's on your nose or face, do it in SMALL sections. When I do this again on my face, I will only use about a pea size on the area. I have now seen people say that about the nose or face, but unfortunately for me, I didn't see it before, even with all of the research I did.
What I still haven't figured out yet, is how to go about figuring out if I have more. (Without the rest of my nose going with it...) Since the entire area that got black salve reacted, it seems to me there could be more where I didn't apply the salve. So I am unsure about what to do before I get surgery. I'd hate to get surgery only to have to have MOHs done on it again : /
Reply author: anivoc
Replied on: 11/01/2012 19:57:37
Message:
Hey Hoxsey you're a brave and gutsy gal. I really appreciate you sharing your experience, albeit not a fun one, with us here.
In regards to plastic surgery and your concern of is "if there's more" here's my thoughts..just my belief and perspective from my own experience so far.
I believe there is more..but to clarify...in different stages of evolution. For those of us that seem to be prone to developing skin cancer, areas that have been exposed more to UV (Face, Head, Neck, Shoulders and Arms)are more apt to be the problem areas than areas without sun damage. I believe any area that has been burned several times on we fair skinned suseptibles is weakened or is in the slow process of evolving from healthy to unhealthy tissue. As it was explained to me by Dr. Larson , the bloodroot paste unmask the unhealthy tissues own defense mechanism ( that allows it to not be attacked by white blood cells) When unmasked the white blood cells attack and kill what they see as an intruder. I believe that it not only exposes tissue that has become cancerous but also pre cancerous tissue. Skin cancer doesn't just happen over night and where a BCC exist today, skin that was on the edge of very healthy and just beginning to become what is labeled Actinic Keratosis existed years ago.
That said I am pretty sure if I rubbed bloodroot all over my face I'd be in for a world of hurt..All over an area where "the sun don't shine" and no problem at all.
I know you get what I mean because you've just gone through a major battle.
Clearly some people can have serious sun damage, I mean blistered skin damage many times in their life and never even get a pimple.. It has been my observation that these are people who "tan easily" or are darker skin colored. I have a lot of Mexican and Italian friends who played out in the sun just as much or more than me growing up ...no problems..A lot of Caucasian friends that weren't as fair as me ..no problems..Even my siblings and cousins..Out of about 50 cousins on my Mom's side there are about 7 of us who have been dealt the skin cancer fun and games.. None on my Dads side.
So anyway back to your nose and the plastic surgeon.. I'd wait another month and see how well you heal up and in the mean time bone up on your plastic surgeon options / choices. Then get at least a couple of opinions and have them discuss your options and how they plan to go about it.
When I spoke to one here in Cali he told me if I wanted he could "harvest" ( gotta love that word ) healthy skin..from an area "where the sun don't shine" to fix my forehead scars.
The plastic surgeon that Bonder posted work of is amazing but then again those may be the cream of the crop of good results.
Well it's a journey and we're on it..and breathing..just went to a buddies funeral last Saturday who passed away 18 months from diagnosis of lung cancer.
I'll take life with the scars and hassle with dealing with these darn lesions over not being able to be with my family and enjoy the grandkids.
Hang in there and best of luck on your road to recovery.
Reply author: anivoc
Replied on: 11/01/2012 20:19:05
Message:
Ah the good ol days...This is what I used first..the real deal for Horsies...
Reply author: Hoxsey
Replied on: 11/01/2012 20:43:36
Message:
So is that black salve for horses?
I'm about to post updated pics... I am looking into seeing the doc in Arizona that Bonder posted about.
I also am concerned that my forehead scar may make the forehead flap not workable, as I assume that the forehead flap may be what they recommend doing. You're right, this all is better thn being in the ground! I'm hoping my better eating habits will eradicate any other possible cancerous areas.
My nose really has filled in quite a bit! Just not enough. I am going to wait, let it heal as much as possible, and look at doctors in meantime, and go to some consults.
Reply author: anivoc
Replied on: 11/02/2012 02:28:30
Message:
Yes Hoxsey xxterra made by Larson Labs is just a standard bloodroot paste mix. Dr. Larson started using it on Horse Sarcomas I believe @ 20 years ago..
He had a relative that was supposed to come up with a version for people but with all the weird things happening with the FDA and their legal attack on Caton and a few others I think he got spooked away from trying.
Healing up nicely keep up the good work.
Reply author: bonder
Replied on: 11/05/2012 09:18:24
Message:
Sadly it seems that some folks end up (still) wanting a doctor to cover up problems on their face but, my hope is that due a lot to this forum that need will be much less.
It has become clear that modern medicine has become quite a money-making industry and with the packaged and the fast food we are offered, a person should definitely become more knowledgeable about what it can do to us if we are not careful.
About moist wound-healing...
http://www.squidoo.com/heal-open-wounds-faster
Be Well Always,
Bonder
Reply author: Hoxsey
Replied on: 11/06/2012 18:22:41
Message:
Hi all...
I am still in limbo here. Today I went to my dermatologist intending to have it biopsied to be sure there is nothing more. My derm wasn't there today, so we did not biopsy. Now I am glad, as I spoke to Greg Caton today, briefly, but in that time, I feel that there MAY be a chance that this could fill in. I emailed him my photos, and am waiting to hear back from him. That's my update for now...
Reply author: Hoxsey
Replied on: 11/06/2012 18:44:52
Message:
What do you guys think? After seeing my pics, I would love to hear your individual guesses as to
1. If it will fill in flush with my remaining skin.
2. If you think it will look normal enough to not have surgery.
Looking forward to your guesses! (Don't take this too seriously by the way!)
hoxsey
Reply author: anivoc
Replied on: 11/06/2012 21:32:47
Message:
Hey Hoxsey..
I'd be surprised if it filled in all the way but anything is possible.
The depth yours went is much deeper than I have seen on anyone else. The tip of the nose is a meaty area and you went deep.
The hole in my nose was much smaller but healed up and filled in awesome. 10 years later there is a slight straight line where the hole was.. Of course I was 10 years younger (@48 at the time)and healed easier then.
After @ 2 months
Reply author: Hoxsey
Replied on: 11/07/2012 18:46:58
Message:
Anivoc, I covet your lil spot!
As it turns out, this nose will not be able to heal by itself and look normal. this is per two surgeons, a dermatologist and from the mouth of Greg Caton himself. It's decision time, and today I opted out of getting it biopsied, as he cannot really do a few biopsies and call it clear, instead, he has to do a full MOHs excision of the entire wound, and then he would want to proceed with MOHs removal from there if he finds more. I figure, and am only slightly hesitant to do this, but I have the best test for whether more is there or not in my hands. I will use small amounts of black salve around the areas that were treated to see if there is more. Am I scared to do this? You bet your arse I am, partly out of fear of how much more there may be, and part from what I know people will think about my decision and how stupid they may view it to be if the results are less than desirable. In my heart of hearts, I just somehow KNOW this stuff works and only kills cancer cells. But even so, I sometimes don't trust my instincts, and I hate that aspect of myself, but it is true.
So, I will possibly start the process tonight, and I am not planning to leave the salve on for the full 24 hours, but maybe twelve or less. Ready or not...
Reply author: Lily44
Replied on: 11/07/2012 21:57:42
Message:
I think I would try to find a milder salve, with less zinc chloride in it to use on my face. Best Wishes to you.
Reply author: anivoc
Replied on: 11/07/2012 22:46:45
Message:
Sorry for the diagnosis but I was pretty sure that was where it was going..it was deep.
If you have already jumped into the water,.... well let it happen. I am hoping that you get no effect..here's the deal.. as I already mentioned I KNOW bloodroot paste does not react to my healthy skin ...that said I do believe it will react to precancerous cells as well as full on basal or squamous cells..That's the rub.
Not sure if you watched the video I posted on anti-angiogenic's
Here.. http://topicalinfo.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1342 or gone through the two post I posted in that thread but I recommend you do.
Science and medicine are on to some new paradigms and revelations in cancer. Though certainly Big Pharma likes to make money..There are humans behind the walls of big pharma with family members and friends they love.. This medical development thing is a clumsy and arduous process but we are really making gains.. Hope we live long enough to enjoy the results.
I believe the orange oil, cymilium, vinegar, astaxanthin, iodine, baking soda and a litany of other products all serve to promote a antiangiogenic effect..whereas Bloodroot paste and petty surge pretty much just pull the cancers covers so that the white blood cells can attack and kill it whamo..that is good and bad...reversing the process, slowing or shrinking the growth seems like a much more civil and less skin damaging approach.
The whole purpose of me trying all these other methods was to find that softer more gentle way... so far not so much..but definitely keeping things pushed back ..
However you proceed I wish you the best and prayers heading out for you and your journey in this battle.
Reply author: bonder
Replied on: 11/07/2012 23:09:46
Message:
Hoxsey,
Do yourself a favor and get someone to help you with the next decisions you want to make.
This stuff is very hard on us alone...
Here are some common (Antiangiogenic Foods) to starve cancer cells.
Maybe try to incorporate them into your diet.
The Video from TED about eating to starve cancer is now at the top of www.canceramerican.com
Be Well Always,
Bonderwww.topicalinfo.org/forum/uploaded/bonder/20121198530_antiangiogenic_foodpic 38k small.jpg" border="0">
38.91 KB
Reply author: Lily44
Replied on: 11/20/2012 15:28:01
Message:
Hoxsey,
You haven't posted in a while, just wondering how things are going.
Reply author: julypanda
Replied on: 12/18/2012 04:38:54
Message:
Hi Hoxsey,
I am new to join, but had previously read your story. I pray that everything is going ok for you. You are one very brave person !!!
Take care. I hope you can update or just say hello so I know that you are alright.
Reply author: Hoxsey
Replied on: 12/18/2012 17:31:33
Message:
Sorry to not get back right away, lily. I had been kind of taking a mental vacation from this issue.
I went to see dr. Gary Burget in Chicago last week for a consult. Previously, I went to another surgeon in Pensacola. I think I'll choose to have the guy that wrote the nasal reconstruction manual to re build my nose! In the meantime, I will have to have a full MOHs excision performed to get the all clear so that insurance will pay their part. Surgery will start in February. Dr. Burget said it will take from 4-6 surgeries altogether. He will take cartilage from my rib to reconstruct the missing cartilage, and perform a forehead flap to replace skin for the nose. That first surgery will take about eight hours. Four to six weeks later, I will go back for him to cut the wonderful pedicle(sp?) I am so looking forward to, and re shape the tip. The third surgery will be some refinements, as well as the possible next two.
No, I did not expect it to be so involved, but there it is.
In the meantime, I have been taking the liquid form of black salve, called tonic iii internally. (I spoke with greg caton from alpha omega and he advised me to do this as my great fear was going in for mohs and coming out with an even bigger defect! the black salve has been 'saying' that there is more, so you can understand my apprehension. I must say, The FIRST DOSE I took was quite scary to take, as my face reacted so 'violently' to the black salve. Yes, I took a smaller portion than rx'd, you better believe it! No side effects, it's pretty hard to get down, but I mix it with a little chocolate almond milk and pinch my nose to get it down. About two weeks ago, I tried the salve around my nose, and it really didn't react anymore, so that is uplifting that it is working. I hope it is!
Reply author: julypanda
Replied on: 12/19/2012 01:33:56
Message:
Hi Hoxsey,
I am so glad that you are ok, although it sounds like you have a big road ahead of you. Did you end up reapplying more black salve after the photos that you posted. Your last post said that you were going to go again. Do you regret doing it ?
I too toyed with mohs vs salve, especially because of the cost involved and the disfigurement i expected from surgery. I did quite a lot of research and spoke to a few people (although saw your post after I had started). I opted for Black Salve. It has now been two months and I have quite a lumpy scar and I sometimes have a little bit of "odd" pain in the area. Don't know whether to do it again, even a bit scared to do it again, and don't know whether i took the right option. So I can certainly appreciate your "mental vacation from the issue". I hope you are not going through this alone and have someone to help you. I certainly have been thinking about you and hoping all is ok.
Take care Hoxsey......
Reply author: djt10
Replied on: 12/23/2012 12:12:52
Message:
My family has used black salve since 1986. Pictures and info on the home page of my website http://truthquest2.com which has several other linked pages. The reason why surgery rarely succeeds is because tumors have roots. They can remove a tumor/cancer mass but not the roots unless it's like a dog I treated with just bloodroot paste, before we had the actual salve. The dog kept biting at the tumor near her anus as it was turning gray and dying, so I took her to the vet and he removed what was left of the external tumor and then went after the root which went clear to the end of her tail. Unfortunately, we don't get roots that can be removed like that. The salve kills the roots, which then release the "eschar". You NEVER want to remove on your own. It needs to fall out by itself. The Alpha Omega lab makes what used to be called "Cansema" --the most famous salve in the world. The kind we use we made ourselves from a formula out of a 150-year-old book, and it's simpler--just bloodroot, zinc chloride, white flour and water. I don't know if it's as good as Cansema, but it works. But this formula calls for a second light salve (which is easy to make)used in between black salve applications until it's completely healed over. It's a drawing/healing salve. Salve isn't gentle. A small spot on the skin can hide a much larger area in the tissues and it goes after everything that's there, so if there's widespread involvement in the deeper tissues, like there apparently was on Hoxey's nose, it's going after all of it. We always do a small test patch after the first treatment has healed up. It does sometimes take more than one application, for sure if any of the roots break off from the scab prematurely, like what happened to me when I was pulling the eschar up to take pictures once and another time when the dog jumped on me and hit the scab. If there's any bleeding, that has probably happened although you usually know because of the pain. One of the most unusual reasons we used it for was my husband's cirrhosis of the liver. Over a couple of years we did it 4 times. The third time, the salve triggered a massive detox through the bowels (black tarry substance) and he was so sick for several days he couldn't even keep water down, so we went to our naturopath who verified that he was detoxing. She gave him liver glandular protomorphogens to support his liver. This was before he even quit drinking for good. The cirrhosis was diagnosed at the veteran's hospital the first time he went in for rehab. The second time, several years later, there was no more cirrhosis, so the treatment and detox it triggered completely cured him.
I've read up on the Moh's treatment extensively. Originally, Mohs used salve to identify and isolate cancer, which was then cut out and the procedure repeated until they found borders that were cancer-free. He didn't even allow the salve to complete it's work. It left disfigurement as any surgery does, and I don't know how successful it was. Certain more than conventional surgery. However, the "modern" treatment doesn't used salve at all. They just start cutting into a cancer, testing borders, cutting more and doing the same. Personally, that is a skin cancer treatment I would never do, any more than I'd do regular surgery. It's too easy to miss cancer cells, and there's still the problem with roots left to regrow a cancer. Salve is my second choice of treatment. My naturopath cured stage 2 stomach cancer in 5 weeks, around 1979. No scars, no disfigurement, but 2 weeks of spontaneous detoxification was something I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy--unless it was to save his life. Salve treatment is cheap, at home, and effective although one needs to also change the conditions which allowed a cancer to grow, which means a different diet, better lifestyle, changing an overly acidic internal environment into a more alkaline one (pH), getting the nutrition you need to repair and rebuild the health, like omega-3 oils, etc. (Dr. Budwig), a lot of raw food/juices with enzymes. Pancreatic enzymes. It's important to treat the liver and pancreas. Changing one's body chemistry is not an easy task, but it's part of the long term healing process.
Reply author: cheryl21
Replied on: 12/24/2012 20:20:17
Message:
Thank you djt10 for your informative post. You mention that black salve is your second choice of treatment. Maybe I missed something but I didn't get from your post what your first choice is. Could you please tell us what your first choice of treatment for skin cancer is? Thank you.
Reply author: djt10
Replied on: 12/24/2012 20:59:46
Message:
Around 1979 I was desperately ill and found my way to a brilliant naturopathic physician, the late Dr. Harold Dick, N.D. who diagnosed stage 2 stomach cancer, chronic bronchitis, arthritis, ovarian cysts, an unhealed injury to my thigh, low thyroid, anemia and a heart murmur. The stomach cancer was the basis of most of it, but the ovarian cyst was a "hot" acute infection which was also poisoning me and causing the heart problems. He did a one-of-a-kind blood test, the Carroll test for digestive enzyme deficiency food intolerances, which also picks up primary tissue salt deficiencies. This is a problem almost all people have, but few know about. The lack of enzymes for certain foods, food groups and food combinations which means digestion and assimilation is incomplete, leading to toxins which basically poison us. He gave me the tissue salts (also called cell salts or mineral salts), glandular protomorphogens which rebuild healthy glands rather than replacing hormones and further suppressing glandular function, and I took treatments for 5 weeks--Constitutional Hydrotherapy which increases blood circulation and jump-starts the immune system. The last two weeks as I recovered, I went into a spontaneous detoxification as my body threw off a lot of poisons. It was awful, like the worst flu and body fluids making their way out anyway they could, through the lungs, sinuses, skin, bowels, etc. But when it was over, one day short of 5 weeks, he checked my heart and said I was ready to go home. All of the pain was gone and for the next 20 years I had better health than I've every experienced in my life, even as a child. Then, I let stress create a new set of problems, but that's a different story. I went back later and spent 2 1/2 years with the doctor as a lay student planning on writing a book about his methods, which are not like other naturopaths, but that "book" turned into a book length website instead. That would be my first choice of treatment, but his daughter who did a residency with him and took over his practice when he died has her office 200 miles away. The whole diagnostic process is now around $300, and going there for treatment would mean having to stay there and pay for lodging as well as treatment, which is around $150 a week now. Cheap by most standards, but not with a limited retirement income. (I'm 65) So, we do the poor man's treatment at home. Black salve has been miraculous, but it's messy and potentially painful. So, if I could afford it, I'd go with the naturopath, but given the circumstances, we do salve treatments. However, to back that up, we know how to eat and do other kinds of supporting therapy like enzymes, superfoods, seawater, glandulars, and a home version of hydrotherapy. You can get rid of tumors and cancer with salves, but one still needs to work on changing the body chemistry that allowed cancer to develop, so it won't come back. We were lucky enough to find a doctor now described by some as a "naturopathic oncology pioneer" who gave us the tools to deal with almost anything. Combining that with salve treatment, which works for far more problems than most people could even imagine, makes us very, very lucky. So yes, given the choice I'd leave almost everything in the hands of the second generation of naturopaths, (actually the third generation, because Dr.Dick did his residency with Dr. Carroll who developed his methods outside of his formal naturopathic training) but nothing would convince me to throw out the jar of black salve I made at home that has been in my fridge for several years. I'm just about to use it on myself again. I got a very, very bad sunburn several years ago on my hands and arms that I think has gone bad and I'm going to do a treatment, not only for myself but so my best friend with possible breast cancer can watch the progress. I'm hoping she'll use it herself but she's scared. The alternative is a breast biopsy, and if possitive, surgery, radiation and chemo. Chemo has something like a 3.1 overall success rate, which means still alive at 5 years, but not necessarily at 6 years. Anyway, I'll be taking pictures of my next treatment and will start a website page.
Reply author: djt10
Replied on: 12/24/2012 21:07:41
Message:
I just read over my post and saw a bunch of typos and misspellings. Sorry, I'm a former school teacher and not really that illiterate. Also, I said "3.1" overall success rate for chemo, but that's wrong. A study done in Australia comparing American and Australian statistics listed that as 2.1 percent, not 3.1% "success" rate for chemo. Oddly enough the stats for "spontaneous" cure of cancer is around 5% which means you have better odds of recovery doing nothing rather than getting chemo.
Reply author: cheryl21
Replied on: 12/25/2012 22:16:57
Message:
Thanks djt10 for your helpful reply. Looks like there is lot of great information on your site and I'm looking forward to studying it to see what is needed to bring one's body back to a good state of health. Best wishes.
Reply author: Salver2013
Replied on: 12/31/2012 15:29:11
Message:
It's important to remember one important thing. Black Salve is a cancer treatment. That means it is serious business and a few rules should be followed.
Firstly, treat only one area at a time and keep the treatment areas quite small (eg: 1cm2) This is particularly important for your first treatment and any treatment involving the nose.
It is very common for the eye area to swell if they is any application near the eye area or if the cancer you are treating has spread to this area.
I treated an area beside the nose and my eye puffed up but this lasted only a couple of days. If you find pics of skin cancer surgery near or around the eye, that same swelling is evident. It is just temporary.
Remember to rest and nourish your body and mind during treatment. This is a cancer treatment and care must be taken.
Reply author: julypanda
Replied on: 01/01/2013 19:13:27
Message:
thanks Salver for your message. You forget sometimes that skin cancer is quite serious and not just a simple skin condition. I am still treating my scar in the hope that it will flatten out a bit.
Hoxsey, I hope you are doing well.. Thinking about you.
Reply author: aehinkley
Replied on: 01/03/2013 18:08:41
Message:
Hello Hoxsey,
I hope all is going well for you. Do you have any updates on your situation? And how your nose is healing.
Reply author: phxvalleygirl
Replied on: 01/20/2013 19:15:30
Message:
quote:
Originally posted by aehinkley
Hello Hoxsey,
I hope all is going well for you. Do you have any updates on your situation? And how your nose is healing.
I have been following her posts as well and would love to know how she is doing. on 12/21/12, I did MY ENTIRE FACE all at once...my friend had done 1/2 face at a time, so I thought I'd save time. It was an ordeal, and there were a couple days that my eyes were so swollen that I could not see. It sucked everything out of my sinuses (it's a drawing salve) and I had stinky mucous coming out of the side of my nose. I have a small gouged out area on the side of my nose and it could have been MUCH worse. I did think that I had a hole in my nose.
I did my chest about 6 days ago and I have a huge eschar forming near my breast bone. It pulled all sorts of phlegm, etc. from my lungs, I believe.
I'm with all those who recommend going lite on the ears and nose, especially. Small amounts...
Reply author: phxvalleygirl
Replied on: 01/20/2013 19:24:16
Message:
A friend of mine went to the allopathic doc to have cancer cells cut from her face. Well, she had no idea that they would make an incision about 4 inches across her cheek and then SCOOP out a section 4 inches long...as if someone had taken a melon baller and just scooped it out! Then, they closed the gap and stitched it shut. She said that they could barely keep the area closed with stitches. It formed a ghastly scar.
She tried black salve from www.bestonearthproducts.com (only saying this, in case there is a difference in the different black salve recipes) and applied it to the scar area. It lit up and everything... well, after three times of doing her face, the scar is barely noticeable on her face! That means that it compensated for the are where the flesh had been cut out by the docs!!!
This is just too amazing to have a product that will go in and excise what is unwanted and replace with the proper DNA structure of flesh/skin that should be there!
Reply author: julypanda
Replied on: 01/21/2013 03:22:12
Message:
Hi valleygirl
I used the black salve from bestonearth. I had a small bcc in the crease of my nose, however the area where the eschar formed was considerably larger. The pain was almost unbearable and I have been left with a scar, but it has only been about 3.1/2 months so I am hoping in time it will improve. It is certainly a better option to surgery, but care should certainly be taken.
Reply author: Hoxsey
Replied on: 01/21/2013 09:46:31
Message:
Thank you all for inquiring. There's not much to update yet, but I will try...
I still wear a bandage on my nose to spare people from seeing it. It still looks like the last pics I posted, it's not going to miraculously heal and grow back like a lizards tail. ( I wish!) My dermatologist decided to just do a few biopsy scrapings around the edges of the area instead of doing a full MOHs excision of the area, and I am very relieved of that. It turns out that Dr. Burget is NOT in network with my insurance, so this is going to wipe me out financially. That fact is the hardest pill to take of this entire journey. So now I am getting my affairs in order with the cost and taking time off work. Burget is out of town until the fifth of February, so my surgery won't be before then. I am starting to get nervous about the actual surgery. I think I have sort of been in denial about what has happened, as a way to cope, but the surgery date getting closer is forcing me to face it. (No pun intended!) I even looked up the cost of getting a prosthetic as a way to escape going under the knife! (That idea only lasted for a day.)
In a way, I cannot believe this has happened to me. I'll never know what would have happened had I opted for the MOHs surgery on my nose instead of using black salve. (theres always the question in the back of my mind- did the salve just somehow react weird on me and 'burn' my nose off? Or was that WHOLE area really bcc?) My sanity needs me to believe that if I'd had MOHs, they would have cut out just as much or more, and I would have not had the time to research the best surgeon to do the forehead flap surgery. Still, there's no way to go back and find out. It's done. Now I have to face the music and deal with it. I am not saying that I believe that bs does not work the way it is supposed to, I am simply addressing the question that I think ANYONE in my situation would naturally have to ask. This is not the result that I had In mind when I learned of, researched and decided to use the salve.
I WILL say, to anyone wanting to use it on their face ( I'm sure you can guess what I am about to say...). ...be VERY VERY careful... I would use it in such small areas, especially around the eyes or nose! You never know.... Look at me. I am an example of what could happen. The doctors I am dealing with now look at my before photos, and of course they say the area was much smaller than what I lost, and I thought it would be too. Instead, the whole area under the salve reacted and you can see what I am left with. So, small small areas only people!
I can't wait to have all of this behind me and be done with it. I hope I will soon post pics of my new, improved nose! I hope I am happy with the result. I hope I am not used by doctors as another 'example' of how black salve just 'buns healthy skin'. And I hope you have a great day! Thank you for reading along about my journey.
Reply author: djt10
Replied on: 01/21/2013 09:51:22
Message:
What shows on the surface is often just the tip of the iceberg. When there's much more underneath, salve will involve a larger area when stuff comes up. Cutting into it surgically often leaves affected areas behind, doesn't kill the roots and it can release cancer cells into the bloodstream to travel. Most of the time the cavitation left by salve fills in with healthy tissue. You don't see that happen with surgery. Sometimes there's a lot of pain and sometimes not. I had a small lump beside my chin that was nearly painless and it seemed to drain out infection in several teeth. But another small spot on my hand that I could feel clear to a fingertip was terribly painful. When the salve works and you have a functioning immune system, redness and swelling is part of the process--that's the immune system at work, and it's a beneficial process.
Reply author: Hoxsey
Replied on: 01/21/2013 10:14:50
Message:
One thing I forgot to mention... In a previous post, I mentioned I started to take the internal salve, the tonic iii. Well, I eventually had a couple of days of feeling achy and feverish. I stopped taking it for a couple of days, then tried it again, got the same symptoms, then they got worse, way worse, to the tune of having a massive headache in the back of my neck that got worse with movement, and a fever that got up to 102.8. So off to the emergency room we went, with the fear being that I had meningitis. Great. Just what I need! I had a chest xray, bloodwork, and finally,even got to have my first spinal tap! I do not recommend getting one, by the way. The doctor was quite positive i had meningitis. But the spinal tap came back normal. They found nothing at all. A mystery illness. Sent me home around 2am with pain pills, call my doctor if symptoms come back...
So was it the tonic? Maybe I have something internally that was causing the reaction? I have not taken it since, but will try again. Maybe today. I am just curious to see if the symptoms coincide with the tonic? We'll see... (Boy am I a case!)
Reply author: djt10
Replied on: 01/21/2013 12:40:59
Message:
If the tonic triggers detoxing, you can plan on feeling miserable. When I was treated for stage 2 stomach cancer and many other conditions around 1979 by a famous old naturopath, besides a diet change, glandular protomorphogens, and cell salts, I was so ill I needed the big guns--constitutional hydrotherapy which lasted for 5 weeks. The last two weeks my body had recovered enough to go into detox spontaneously. I was so sick I was ready to shoot the doctor, but he assured me it was an essential part of the healing process. It was like the worst flu you could imagine. Fever, vomiting, terrible pain in my muscles, congested lungs and sinuses. I was sick as a dog. Then at the end of two weeks, I woke up one morning and it was all gone. The sickness, and pain from my stomach, arthritis, ovarian cysts, chronic bronchitis, sciatica, and even a heart murmur was gone. I had 20 years of good health after that, until I let stress create a new set of problems, which wore my adrenals down and that affected many other organs and systems. When I saw the next generation of naturopath (the old doctor's daughter) in 2001, I couldn't afford to stay for treatment so she instructed me to do a 3-day water fast to detox, along with other forms of home treatment, but I could never get through it until I had an attack of hives that made my tongue swell up and my throat swell almost shut. The pain was so bad all I could manage was a few drops of water at a time, so I finally got through a fast the hard way. Into day 4 I felt it happen. For 3 days of fasting toxins are still being dumped from the blood into the tissues, but after that with no digestion going on, it then begins picking up toxins from tissues and cells to get rid of them. The muscle and nerve pain was horrendous, but by the next day it was all gone, and that was the last episode I've had with the conditions caused my low adrenal and they thyroid function. Detoxing is NOT fun.
Many years ago we did a salve treatment on my husband, an alcoholic who was diagnosed with cirrhosis of the liver. We actually did 4 treatments over the course of a couple of years because he was still drinking at that time and I figured that his condition would be on-going. On the 3rd time, with just the salve alone, it threw him into major detox. He was so sick he couldn't even keep water down, the salve had brought on a large draining eschar, and he was passing black tarry stuff through the bowels. He was scared so we drove 200 miles to the naturopath, who said, yes indeed he was going through detox. She gave him liver glandulars to support the healing process and after another day or two of misery he got over it. He was still drinking and ended up going to rehab a second time, but when they tested him, his liver had healed in spite of his continued drinking. That's what detoxing can do. Happily, that second stint in rehab was the end of the drinking, but he credits the salve treatment and detoxing like that for restoring his health. That was several years ago. He's going on 76 and out chopping wood and living a very active life.
I can't say for certain whether your symptoms were part of a detoxing event or some kind of other reaction to the tonic, but anyone going through a serious detoxing can expect that kind of misery. Getting bad stuff out of your body isn't going to be pretty by any means. When my grandmother was taken to the naturopath, cell salts and glandular support alone threw her into detox. It was different in her case--her ears, eyes, nose and bowels were the exit points. She was "mental" and had a half dozen different diagnosis which ended with "Alzheimers" and a boat load of anti-psychotic meds. It turned out she was poisoned with heavy metals--nearly lethal levels of cadmium and high levels of aluminum. You could smell the metals and drugs coming right out through her skin. That also took 2 weeks, but it restored her mentally and physically.
It's too risky to advise other people or be an armchair diagnostician, so all I can do is describe our own experiences.
By the way, 2 years ago I tripped over a raised section of sidewalk and fell so hard I thought I had broken bones but it was about 10 days before I could even get out of bed and to a doctor. No fractures, but I slammed my right breast so hard I knew there was soft tissue damage, and the same with my left knee. Last night, I applied salve to the breast and today I'm seeing a reaction. I went to a friend's house whose doctor thinks she has breast cancer so we're doing it together. She opted to not have a biopsy because of the dangers involved, or any more radiation from mammograms, and I wasn't going to do that at all--thermograms don't pose the same kind of risks, but they aren't available in this area. Anyway, we're both "off to the races" with salve treatment. I make my own, but would advise others to purchase it from one of the top companies.
Reply author: julypanda
Replied on: 01/21/2013 15:32:49
Message:
Dear Hoxsey,
I feel so much for you and what you are going through. I can only begin to imagine how much "second guessing" you have been doing. My problem is minute compared to yours and I have been second guessing all the time, but like to think I took the right option.
I wish you all the best for your upcoming surgery and pray that you end up with a beautiful nose at the end of it all. Please let us know how you get on. I think your postings have inspired a lot of people - myself included.
Take care Hoxsey, and stay in touch :)
Reply author: Lily44
Replied on: 01/26/2013 20:29:21
Message:
Are you saying that you put BLACK SALVE on your whole face at the same time?
quote:
Originally posted by phxvalleygirl
On 12/21/12, I did MY ENTIRE FACE all at once...my friend had done 1/2 face at a time, so I thought I'd save time. It was an ordeal, and there were a couple days that my eyes were so swollen that I could not see. It sucked everything out of my sinuses (it's a drawing salve) and I had stinky mucous coming out of the side of my nose. I have a small gouged out area on the side of my nose and it could have been MUCH worse. I did think that I had a hole in my nose.
I did my chest about 6 days ago and I have a huge eschar forming near my breast bone. It pulled all sorts of phlegm, etc. from my lungs, I believe.
I'm with all those who recommend going lite on the ears and nose, especially. Small amounts...
[/quote]
Reply author: 123zane0
Replied on: 01/31/2013 15:41:34
Message:
I also have used Black Salve numerous times I learnt a lesson to use only a small amount at a time as your toxins are coming out of your body. Use only 1 square cm at a time. I have a spot ive used the salve on and my face is pretty swollen look a bit like an Avatar! Waiting now for it to calm down. But its better than the alternative....Medical incisions and scarring with stitches and maybe even a spreading which is much much worse.
Reply author: 123zane0
Replied on: 02/01/2013 02:46:10
Message:
Forehead pic. 3 days after application
Image Insert:
33.8 KB
Reply author: 123zane0
Replied on: 02/01/2013 03:34:41
Message:
Hear Hear
quote:
Originally posted by julypanda
Dear Hoxsey,
I feel so much for you and what you are going through. I can only begin to imagine how much "second guessing" you have been doing. My problem is minute compared to yours and I have been second guessing all the time, but like to think I took the right option.
I wish you all the best for your upcoming surgery and pray that you end up with a beautiful nose at the end of it all. Please let us know how you get on. I think your postings have inspired a lot of people - myself included.
Take care Hoxsey, and stay in touch :)
Reply author: Hoxsey
Replied on: 02/01/2013 08:07:39
Message:
July panda, thank you for your kind words! 123zane0, I am sure you saw my forehead application. You have one nice spot in there... I never got that really, just got the general scabbling without one or two 'main' spots. I see your swelling, all looks good! My forehead is still a little lumpy, and probably won't get any better without dermabrasion or something.
I went to get my outer edges of the nose defect biopsied a couple days ago. I may get results as early as today. I am more nervous about this than my upcoming surgery. I am really scared... My derm biopsied five spots around the edges. He wanted to make sure that the 'big daddy' of the lab testers was the person who will test my biopsies for the results. I could get them as early as today. What a weight off of my shoulders it will be if it all comes back negative! Then I can just get on with my first surgery, scheduled for feb 20th in Chicago.
Thank you all for following this post. I hope it can help others who find themselves looking for answers and for others experiences to help them make decisions about using black salve. I never thought I would be in this situation from using it! VERY VERY powerful stuff. Please use with great care.
Ill update again when I get biopsy results...
Reply author: Hoxsey
Replied on: 02/01/2013 08:10:38
Message:
Djt10, thank you for your input and stories! How is your breast application with your friend going?
Reply author: djt10
Replied on: 02/01/2013 13:52:03
Message:
When I read about someone putting the salve all over their face, my stomach just clenched up. One small spot will usually do it if it's internal because the bloodroot seems to travel where it needs to go. When my husband decided to try it for cirrhosis of the liver, it was done on a general area near the groin and he could feel it pulling in different areas, not only his liver but his testicles where he had a hydrocele from an injury, his leg where antibiotics made a mess of an infection, and his lungs (decades of heavy smoking). Or course, if there are skin lesions, then you apply it to all of them.
I decided to do the breast treatment along with my girlfriend. Two years ago I tripped on a sidewalk where a tree root had raised it up and fell so hard I thought I had broken ribs and one knee. The hardest impact was on my right breast and I've been worried since that it was a deep soft-tissue injury that never completely healed because it didn't feel quite right, and any injury that fails to heal completely can go bad. So ...we did it together. With the salve I make, similar to Cansema, you do a 24 hr. application followed by 7 days of a light, drawing salve we also make at home, then a second application of black salve followed by the light salve until it has completely healed over. Well, hers had a strong reaction but I haven't seen it since the next day, but she said it's already a black/green sunken scab so she obviously did have breast cancer. I'm hoping she's taking regular pictures and well send them too me later when she figures out how to upload them to her computer. Mine reacted but not that strongly so I pushed it with black salve for 3 days and it's coming right along, but it's lighter colored. What I suspect is that it was probably in a more pre-cancerous state, but I can also feel it pulling under my arm towards the lymph nodes, so I'm VERY, VERY glad I decided to do it with her. Later on, we'll both get thermograms, but no mammograms or needle biopsies--between the pressure and radiation from a mammogram, I'm not going to do that, and I've heard and read horrow stories about needle biopsies. The problem is they don't even have the equipment in this area--we will have to drive 200 miles just to get to the equipment. I'll take a picture today when I change the bandage. The light salve (lavender essential oil, resin, beeswax, and linseed oil) is good because it keeps it soft and keep pulling pus out of the tissues and whatever else needs to drain out even after the eschar detaches.
Reply author: djt10
Replied on: 02/01/2013 21:28:23
Message:
How do you get photos on here?
Reply author: Hoxsey
Replied on: 02/02/2013 08:07:32
Message:
Do it by clicking the 'reply to this topic' tab, you can't do it with the quick reply at the bottom.
Reply author: djt10
Replied on: 02/02/2013 10:17:13
Message:
Thanks. Here's where I am at day 13.
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Reply author: djt10
Replied on: 02/02/2013 10:33:37
Message:
The photo was from yesterday. This morning it's separating more and the light salve is drawing pus and fluids out of there, which is why I like the two-salve treatment because as long as the bloodroot is killing cells, or triggering a detox or whatever exactly it does, it will produce this kind of waste material that needs to be expelled and I'm convinced the light salve used in between black salve treatments and continuously until it's completely healed over helps in that process. But you can see the different between mine and the others here. My friend described hers as black with green edges which matches the other eschars pictured here and she's using the same salves as I am, so it makes me wonder if the difference in color indicates an earlier disease stage, like pre-cancer or something. I'm going to save the scab and take it into the M.D. I'll have to see to arrange for a thermogram, or maybe I'll really freak him out and go next week before it falls out, and see if I can challenge him into having it tested. but I think all they will find is "morbid matter" because I don't think cancer or precancerous cells keep their identity after they've been liquified into pus--but if someone knows differently I'd welcome any information. By the way, there are a couple of fairly recent studies done on the effect of bloodroot on cancer cells: http://truthquest2.com/cancersalves.htm
Reply author: Hoxsey
Replied on: 02/02/2013 11:16:21
Message:
I have asked about having the Eschar tested, and it is not possible, that is what a physician has told me. The explanation made sense, too, though I don't remember ecifically what it was. I kept my Eschar, froze it in case I could, but oh well. (My forehead Eschar only. My nose was a diagnosed bcc.)
Reply author: djt10
Replied on: 02/02/2013 12:49:14
Message:
Anything can by analyzed, he probably meant that the origin can't be determined. It seems reasonable that once cells or even tissues have been killed off and liquified and expelled from the body that they are no longer recognizable.
Reply author: julypanda
Replied on: 02/02/2013 18:39:02
Message:
any news yet Hoxsey ? Prayers are with you, and fingers are crossed for good results....
Reply author: djt10
Replied on: 02/02/2013 20:56:58
Message:
I second that, for the prayers and good wishes. I've complained because I did a small lump near my chin that left a scar, even when it drained some bad teeth I thought were going to require root canals, which caused no trouble after that, but a small scar compared to what you've gone through is nothing. Black salve is harsh and relentless. If cancer has spread, it goes after everything under the surface but at least you have the chance to kill it off including roots, instead of being maimed by surgery which could miss cancer and release cancer cells into the bloodstream. I hope this got it all and that you're able to get successful reconstructive surgery. If there is still any cancer found, bloodroot tablets taken internally might be an option.
Reply author: Hoxsey
Replied on: 02/02/2013 23:25:50
Message:
Thank you, julypanda. No news yet. Hopefully Monday. Fingers crossed! Djt10, I am unsure of what route I will take if the biopsies come back positive. I hate to have MOHs, but my reconstructive surgery date is looming, and it's $500 to change an appt, and frankly, I can't afford that at this point. I am really ready to get this behind me.. I did take black salve internally, and it may have made me sick ( the meningitis scare) but maybe that was just a mystery illness? I hope it was not related...haven't taken the internal since. On top of it all,the MOHs now scares the hell out of me! I'm afraid of ending p with half of a face left. But I shan't worry bout that till results. Does no good!
Reply author: djt10
Replied on: 02/03/2013 23:55:27
Message:
One of my husband's salve treatments triggered a massive detox and he was sick for days--couldn't even keep water down at first. Bloodroot is supposed to be a blood purifier, which means detoxing is going to happen and that's never fun, but it's impossible or at least unwise to try to diagnose someone else's symptoms. It might have been the tablets, or the tablets causing detoxing, or something else. Let's just hope the tests come up negative. The costs for anything medical are outrageous. We do salve because we've got it at home in the fridge. My first choice would be my naturopathic doctor who lives 200 miles away, and her charges are nothing compared to medical but even that and the trip and an overnight stay are hard to manage on a limited income so we take care of things at home.
Treating cancer is one thing. Dealing with the body chemistry that allows cancer to develop is the next step. Hopefully you'll let us know what the test results are as soon as you find out.
Reply author: julypanda
Replied on: 02/08/2013 18:20:18
Message:
any news Hoxsey? I am hoping no news is good news...
Reply author: Hoxsey
Replied on: 02/09/2013 12:34:43
Message:
Good news! The five biopsies were all negative. I am relieved I don't have to have more MOHs surgery. At the same time, the negative diagnosis also makes me question what happened in my black salve case. I HAVE to be the devils advocate, and consider the possibility that I am an anomaly, and the salve may have just 'burned' everything it touched. My experience just does not fit any other story I have read and heard of in any way! I will still use it if I ever am diagnosed with a skin cancer anywhere on my body, but probably not on my face. I mean, there is no proof that it harms normal cells, but there is not any that it can't, either. What about other skin issues? Was my WHOLE TIP really a bcc? I don't think so, not that large of an area, and if so, what are the chances that I applied the salve to the EXACT edges of it? Remember, the ENTIRE AREA it touched turned into the huge Eschar you see in the previous photos. I have photos of the application, and the application area matches exactly to the Eschar. Maybe my dietary and skin care changes eliminated any remaining bcc? (Resulting in the negative biopsies) We will never know. I am NOT condemning black salve, I am just throwing it out there as a precaution for people searching the internet looking for for answers and experiences with black salve. We dont need a bunch of posts after this claiming proof of the facts. I cannot prove that the whole area was not bcc, but there is no proof that the whole area was, either. (Only the biopsied spot is for sure, which was an area much smaller than the Eschar, a couple millimeters in diameter. ) I cannot help but believe that there can or may be abnormal cases where it may react in an unusual way to certain skin, whether it be some other condition or not. I hate to say that, because I went into this excited to be another success story and to spread the word about this amazing way to cure cancer! It IS and it DOES, but one must consider that it also COULD react to something else. I think Greg Caton had told me that if you have an abundance of yeast internally, it may react. So who knows what happened in my case. All I know now is it led me down a road I never could have dreamed of, and certainly did not expect, or want.
The lesson here? Do your own due diligence. Do your own research, ( I did...but never saw a story like mine happen on the nose) be aware that this stuff is potent, and you COULD end up with an outcome you didn't want or expect. It is possible, so look at all of your options, and whatever you choose, BE RESPECTFUL of natural cures! Nature has its way, you know? I applied a larger spot that I probably should have, and boy, am I paying for it! OR maybe it all was bcc. Still, I had no idea I would be left with a deformity.
Still, I am relieved that there's no more and I can proceed with the start of reconstruction on the 20th!
Big sigh of relief!
Just over a week away!
Reply author: julypanda
Replied on: 02/09/2013 18:22:43
Message:
Hoxsey, that is absolutely wonderful news to what has been an epic adventure that you have endured. Yes, I can certainly understand your thoughts. I guess the only way you could have been certain it was all BCC would be to have the eschar biopsied but in Australia you are not allowed to unless it has been removed by a doctor.
Anyway, congratulations on the wonderful news, and I hope and pray that your reconstructive surgery goes smoothly and you end up with a beautiful nose....
Reply author: Deb
Replied on: 02/10/2013 09:39:58
Message:
Hi, I have been following this thread silently for a while as I was waiting for my black salve to arrive in the post. I think that Hoxley's posting has given me a real reality check of the potency of the product. I am so glad that things are finally turning a corner for you, Hoxley; it must have all been such a scary experience (some of it still is, I expect). I am amazed at how much improved your nose is now; I too wish you a beautiful nose! After seeing that you used deep tissue salve - I was careful to buy the regular one.
I am currently self-medicating a lentigo maligna. I have proceeded cautiously, at first unsure of whether it was sun damage of LM. The dermatologist was unsure and wanted to biopsy. I decided to self-medicate first. When she drew me a diagram of the possible huge removal area around the weird big freckle, I was sure I was going to use Cansema. Sure enough, the area I applied it too has indicated the presence of dodgy cells. I applied a little more around the edge and am due to take it off in a couple of hours.
My journey has begun and I am grateful to everyone who has provided testimonials and information.
Reply author: Hoxsey
Replied on: 02/10/2013 15:28:04
Message:
Hi Deb,
I hope you have good luck with your use of the salve on your lm. I have never heard of that before, but just looked it up, and understand it can become a form of melanoma. Something to be taken seriously! I'm glad you got some 'caution' from my story as you never know what your outcome will look like, but more than likely, it will be a smooth process! Just be careful with the size area you treat, as you can always go back and reapply. Good luck!
Reply author: djt10
Replied on: 02/10/2013 16:09:18
Message:
I've applied black salve to moles where it sat there and did nothing except turn the skin around the mole a little pink, and the same for a treatment on a friend of mine which was done below the stomach on one side which is an area of general application for cancer or something else abnormal inside and had the same reaction--pink skin, no scab. Recently I watered down some salve and rubbed it all over one forearm to test for a reaction. I had a very deep sunburn on both arms several years ago, and they are spotty. I've worried about skin cancer ever since. Watering it down substantially is one way to test for a reaction. One company sells it like that for the same reason. It did raise a bunch of small blisters but they were spaced out and corresponded with the spottiness.
I've read about someone having an eschar laboratory-tested and it came back as "morbid matter" which means pus. Bloodroot kills cancer cells and the immune system liquifies it into pus for the body to dispose of. I think that's what the roots are about, directing waste materials to the surface. Hoxsey, as large and deep as your eschar was, the cancer had probably spread to the tissues in the nose. There might have been a better cosmetic outcome with a much smaller application of salve but not necessarily. I saw online photos of a woman who had stage 4 breast cancer that had spread to both breasts and in between. I think she applied salve to one area, but the massive involvement of tissue caused an equally massive scab to form on the surface above where it was in the tissues instead of being funneled to one single area. I think it said she lost about 2/3 of the breast tissue on the worst side, but it healed up and apparently got all of the cancer.
It's too bad they don't do the Moh's surgery the way he did it. He applied salve to define the area of the cancer. If salve killed healthy tissues internally that wouldn't have worked. Then he would remove the affected area and go again until there was no salve reaction. All the modern day Moh's surgeons have done is to take the idea of doing the tissue biopsy at different levels or locations.
I have to do my breast salve treatment again. I accidentally broke a couple of roots by bumping it while it was firmly attached, and when it was loosely attached I was changing the bandage and the scab was stuck to it and pulled off. Instead of nice red, clean flesh, there were roots remaining and some lumps. Then I did something different which was to make a bloodroot paste without the zinc Chloride and applied it to the raw lesion. The chemical helps it penetrate deeper but most people can't apply salve to raw tissues--the pain is almost unbearable. The paste brought up some weird looking lumps. So, as soon as it's healed over enough to put the actual salve back on, I'll make the salve area a little larger and see what happens. One thing--I don't think the salve burns through skin. When I apply it when there's nothing on the skin surface to start with, like in the case of this breast treatment, I use a sterilized needed to prick the surface of the skin. That's exactly where the first "blister-like" eruptions started on mine but there was no opening in the skin otherwise. It's like this stuff comes to the surface and then has to break through to be disposed of.
Reply author: djt10
Replied on: 02/10/2013 16:55:42
Message:
http://www.panaceauniversity.org/Black%20Salve%20Alternative%20Cancer%20Treatment.pdf This is a huge site with a lot of good information.
Reply author: djt10
Replied on: 02/11/2013 00:08:13
Message:
http://billolearyphuket.com/ArticleView.asp?ArticleID=33 This link is to a photo journal of a man with diagnosed Bcc cancer on the end of his nose. He covered most of his nose with salve, and the pictures show exactly what happened. I think his story and photos will answer a lot of questions. There is also a link towards the bottom with photos and info on his friend's salve treatment. They both had previously had Moh's surgical procedures, I think, or at least the first guy was going to.
Reply author: julypanda
Replied on: 02/11/2013 02:51:26
Message:
Hi Deb,
Welcome to the forum and having your say. Yes, I too was a silent reader, but more and more I feel comfortable in writing something. I wish you well in your journey. It is a bit scary, but so is surgery. Keep us updated with your progress.
Good luck
Reply author: Hoxsey
Replied on: 02/11/2013 07:20:08
Message:
Djt10, it's funny, bill oleary's story was the first black salve story I read about. It really helped to see how it worked, from start to finish with great pics. That's why it was such a shock that my whole area applied reacted like it did. He covered his whole nose tip with the salve, and I followed suit.
His result was EXACTLY WHAT I THOUGHT MY OUTCOME would be! Not so.
We have corresponded, he's a really nice man.
Reply author: djt10
Replied on: 02/11/2013 11:14:10
Message:
My best guess is the reason it turned out differently in your case was that the cancer in your nose was far more widespread, if not cancerous then pre-cancerous. If it was the same on your forehead, one cancer may have spread that far, but the salve would have gone after what didn't show on the surface also. The Eschar on your nose was attached by a very big root so it was drawing from deeper than just your nose. You may still have saved a lot more nose tissue than surgery would have, and what if surgery had missed some of it? But it's a terrible thing to have it happen on the face, no matter what, not that there's any good place to have cancer. It seems unfortunate that Bill Cleary had to plaster his whole nose in a case where only a small area reacted to the salve, making it seem like a safe thing to do, because when something can be seen on the surface of the skin most people are advised just to cover the affected area, and when we're going after an internal cancer or condition (like cirrhosis of the liver in my husband's case) we still keep the salve area relatively small, like the size of a quarter or less. But ...maybe it needed to happen that way in your case. I've seen very few cases where the scab was that thick and deep, so it could be it needed to happen exactly as it did to save the rest of your face and maybe your life. Of course there's no way to know any of this for certain.
If reference to salve selectivity--I wish I could remember where I read about the case of someone who had an inoperable tumor wrapped around nerves and blood supply in the jaw. Apparently the salve just went after the cancerous tissue and left the artery or vein it was wrapped around untouched. It was probably on one of the salve producer sites but I've read so many cases and gone to so many sites I don't remember where it was.
Now I've got to re-do my breast application and work on bringing my pH up out of cancer range. That's a critically important part of changing the body chemistry into an unfriendly environment. We use pH strips or sticks--strips from a roll in this case. You test your saliva before putting anything in your mouth in the morning, because even water can affect the reading. Or, you can do it if you haven't eaten or drank anything for 2-3 hours. 7.3-4 is healthy, slightly alkaline pH for saliva, which is an indicator of the fluids surrounding cells. 6 and below is cancer range. Normal cells turn cancerous in an acidic medium where they are deprived of normal food and oxygen. Mine tested out as barely 6. It's a major operation to turn that around. When it happened before about 10 years ago (my adrenals crashed and affected everything) I spent about 4 years trying to change my body chemistry. The only thing that finally worked was bottled seawater. I'm doing the pH dietary changes as best I can with something new added there (the baking soda/maple syrup treatment), but I've also ordered seawater. Information on pH is available on many internet sources, but I've also put together a web page for anyone interested. http://truthquest2.com/pHbalance.htm
Reply author: Deb
Replied on: 02/11/2013 12:59:47
Message:
Update - The weird freckle I put the salve on has turned black - the entire area of salve application. I thought I should put a tiny bit more salve around the edge as I felt that the skin just below the lesion did not behave normally (a bit red before the salve application). I took the plaster off and saw that this area had turned white. 24 hours later - it is still white - including a bit of the salve that leaked out of my plaster to snake up to the tip of my nose. What will happen to these bits of my nose?
I needed no painkillers for this treatment. I do not class what I experienced as pain - more like 'sensation' with some brief itching and light stinging moments. I am grateful for that!
I have searched and found no one on the internet treating a lentigo maligna with black salve; only lentigo maligna melanomas. Certainly, the black salve has revealed that it is wise to take the 'malignant' element of this condition seriously. I did notice how the dermatologist was on the verge of prepping the biopsy trolley even as she was telling me the possible nature (she said 80% chance it is a solar spot, 20% chance a M.L).
My nose looks a bit horrible at the moment but I am getting used to it and comfort myself that things can only get better from now on.
Reply author: Hoxsey
Replied on: 02/11/2013 15:09:29
Message:
Deb, have you heard of 'satellite cells'? It could be other little abnormal cells outside of the edges of the actual freckle. I know nothing of your spot, but a lot of times with skin cancers, you will see satellite cells turn white around the cancerous area. Just an idea, doesn't make it so. If it is, the spots will disappear, and you won't even know they were there. Good luck!
Pictures would be helpful.
Reply author: julypanda
Replied on: 02/12/2013 05:28:09
Message:
Hi Deb,
I had a BCC (biopsied) and when I put the black salve on, it immediately started to react, and there was a very strong "throbbing" feeling, burning, itching, pulling and was extremely uncomfortable as the days went on. Pain killers were my friend. I wonder if in fact yours was not a cancer (?), I guess the way to tell, is if an eschar forms out of it all. As Hoxsey says, pictures would be helpful.
Good luck with the process....
Reply author: Hoxsey
Replied on: 02/12/2013 07:42:23
Message:
Julypanda is absolutely correct, I forgot to mention this aspect of it. Also, the worse the cancer, the more painful the reaction, so it may have been some sort of abnormality, just maybe not cancer,
Reply author: Deb
Replied on: 02/12/2013 13:06:30
Message:
As I understand it, Lentigo Maligna is described as a pre-cancerous condition which, if left over a number of years can turn into m. melanoma. I avoided the biopsy as I want to minimise any travelling of possible malignant cells. I decided to self-medicate to get shut of it. The dermatologist and myself were on the same page; if it is L.M - get it out. We just preferred different methods. As I did not opt for the initial biopsy, I may never know what it was.
Today, the area is black and slightly concave; something will have to come out/off eventually. It does not seem very deep. The white/yellow area still looks the same.
I may just have got rid of a sun spot: best case scenario. Would the salve turn a sun-spot black? There's so much about this stuff that is still a mystery to me.
Reply author: Lily44
Replied on: 02/16/2013 00:21:27
Message:
Am I missing something here?
Thanks Lily Deleted the post..can't catch em all appreciate you bringing attention to it.
Tom
Reply author: Deb
Replied on: 02/18/2013 12:05:42
Message:
On Saturday morning, an eschar did form and come off. It was small and left an according hole in my skin. There was also another smaller but quite deep hole that came from where the salve had snaked off to. The main area of the eschar had a tiny clump of whitish cells underneath - definitely dodgy looking. These were the bits that had appeared as black dots in the freckle. The holes looked granulated and healthy: a nurse friend of mine agreed. They started to close up immediately.
I wonder what the dermatologist will say when she sees the area again, next week?
Reply author: julypanda
Replied on: 02/18/2013 15:11:11
Message:
Hi Deb,
All sounds good and exactly how it should happen. I hope it continues to heal accordingly. Will be interesting what the doctors say....
Hoxsey,
Good luck with your reconstructive surgery on the 20th. I will be praying for you. Don't be nervous - just keep thinking of the end result. Keep smiling 
Reply author: Deb
Replied on: 02/21/2013 15:42:36
Message:
I second that. Hoxley - by now, I hope you have your new nose!
Reply author: Hoxsey
Replied on: 02/21/2013 17:43:14
Message:
It's done! Yesterday I had the forehead flap surgery by Dr. Burget. I just got back to the hotel and am recovering. Stayed overnight in hospital for observation (and a lot of morphine!) I am all bandaged up, so all I can see is my new nose tip! It looks big and weird, but that's how it will look until next surgery when he shapes and trims it up. It will have a much better blood supply by then. He took cartilage from my ear and rib (OUCH!), the rib being the only part really giving me pain, and did a skin graft from my thigh to apply to the underside of the pedicle, to help stop the seeping, and help prevent infection. He's one of the best, It will look as good as it can get when it's done. He's a great surgeon, has a dry sense of humor, and is always joking and isn't snooty with HIS nose stuck in the air! He has many fans at the hospital, people that have known him and worked with him for years.
Anyway, the hardest part is over. I'm hurting so I am going to go nap now. Jeez, what a journey this has been!!
Ps- it's funny... I am experiencing that ghost phenomenon where if I touch my new nose tip, I feel it on my forehead where that skin USED to be! Pretty wild! That will change with time...
Reply author: julypanda
Replied on: 02/22/2013 01:39:29
Message:
I am so happy for you Hoxsey. So glad that you are finally getting your new nose. Glad the surgery went well, and hopefully as each day passes the pain lessens considerably.
Would love to see photos when you are willing/able.....
Take care Hoxsey. When is your next surgery ?
Reply author: Deb
Replied on: 02/22/2013 02:39:08
Message:
Good. I wish you a speedy recovery.
Reply author: anivoc
Replied on: 02/22/2013 20:08:30
Message:
quote:
Originally posted by Hoxsey
Jeez, what a journey this has been!!
Ps- it's funny... I am experiencing that ghost phenomenon where if I touch my new nose tip, I feel it on my forehead where that skin USED to be! Pretty wild! That will change with time...
That Ghost thing is REALLY strange. I did not realize that would happen. Sounds like you are in the best hands you could want to be in. Awesome...hoping and praying for all the best in your recovery..
Tom
Reply author: julypanda
Replied on: 03/12/2013 02:33:29
Message:
Hi Hoxsey,
Just wondering how your new nose is progressing. I imagine that you will have to wait for the swelling to go down to get a better idea, but at least you are finally on your way to a lovely nose...
take care - thinking of you and praying for you
Reply author: dustinedan2
Replied on: 03/13/2013 03:11:52
Message:
Many salves, pastes, poultices, and plasters have been applied directly to ... can also burn the surrounding normal tissue and result in unnecessary scarring. ... The second patient successfully eradicated his tumors but sustained severe .... After the salve was applied, her nose became extremely painful and her face swelled ...
Dustin Edan
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Reply author: dustinedan2
Replied on: 03/13/2013 03:14:23
Message:
Many salves, pastes, poultices, and plasters have been applied directly to ... can also burn the surrounding normal tissue and result in unnecessary scarring. ... The second patient successfully eradicated his tumors but sustained severe .... After the salve was applied, her nose became extremely painful and her face swelled ...
Dustin Edan
-----------
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Reply author: djt10
Replied on: 03/13/2013 09:57:53
Message:
I did some research on zinc chloride. It's described as "corrosive" but further examination turned up something interesting. Not to human cells, but to PLANT cells--it will break down cellulose. Cancer has been described as very similar to fungus, which is a form of plant life. So, if cancer cell walls likewise contain cellulose like fungal cell walls, then what the zinc chloride does is to break down the cellulose walls of cancer cells so that bloodroot can penetrate the interior of the cell.
With cancer, you never know how much surrounding tissue is affected, even if it hasn't turned cancerous, it could be precancerous or otherwise abnormal.
Reply author: Hoxsey
Replied on: 03/13/2013 11:45:46
Message:
Hoxsey here...
My second surgery is coming up on march 20th. Nose graft (pedicle) looks good, I have been a little concerned about a very small specific spot on the side of my nostril. I really cannot touch it its so painful. I went to an ent and he said its not an abscess, but put me on antibiotics anyway. It still kills, and I am feeling spots that feel a little swollen waaaay up into my mouth, like if you put your tongue up your top gums as far as it can go, it's a little swollen and hurts to touch. But I am on antibiotics, what else is there to do? I suppose dr. Burget will see if anything is wrong when he goes back in. I may post pic soon. Warning, if I Do, it's pretty gross/weird!
I have heard that fungus theory, too.
There was never any swelling, not really, as he did not go in and tear up what was there, he took skin off forehead and attached it.
My nose feels pretty uncomfortable as there is stabbing? Inside nostrils, and the painful spots I mentioned. If I wiggle my nose, it just feels thick and tight. Maybe that will go away after this surgery?
The saga continues...
Reply author: julypanda
Replied on: 03/14/2013 06:56:49
Message:
awww sweetie, not sicko gawkers at all..... I actually think a lot of people feel your pain - I know I do. You have been in my prayers so much,and I wish you nothing but the very best of treatment as well as support. Your photos help to put a face to the story, rather than something to "gawk" at. You have not only been an inspiration to many many skin cancer sufferers but an inspiration to people in general with your tenacity and strength throughout this whole process.
With regards to the "thick and tight" feeling. I have been experiencing that feeling for several months now since using the black salve. I have developed some scar tissue which has attached a small area between my nose and my cheek and "pulls" constantly. Surgery or black salve or both - skin cancer is an awful thing.
Good luck with your next round of surgery Hoxsey, I hope it goes really well for you. Stay strong and Keep smiling.
Reply author: Hoxsey
Replied on: 03/18/2013 11:46:00
Message:
Thank you julypanda! Very encouraging and kind words from you! I know there's very few gawkers, and so what. This post evolved so that I could show others what can and may happen in the event they try black salve, to help others educate themselves so they go in with as much knowledge as they possibly can.
Surgery is in three days (wed) but I have been running a low grade fever for the last few days on and off, usually at night, until yesterday when I got home Saturday night, I started fever again and it stayed until last night or this morning.(mon) No other symptoms! I'm on two antibiotics already. So I told dr Burget and he suspected a bladder infection or pneumonia, so I am at my physicians office as precaution to have him listen to lungs and do a urinalysis. If I do have any kind of infection, we have to call the surgery off until I am recovered. I do NOT want that, so please pray that it was my body's response to stress, as the last two weeks were very stressful as my mother suffered a spinal stroke, a very rare event, and spent the last two weeks with her at my home,nursing her and taking care of her as she couldn't do much for herself. I did not get much rest after the first surgery! I think my body just said "ENOUGH"! I mean, I got the fever right after we took her to her home for the weekend. And I am sick of complaining about how tired I am all the time... But I think it's all related. My body needed rest, I got a low grade fever, RESTED all day yesterday, and finally it's down today.
I noticed this morning that the hairs that are now on the tip of the nose pedicle from my forehead, can easily be pulled out, they practically fall out when pulled with tweezers. I don't know if that's a good sign or not! He said he would remove as many follicles as possible this next surgery. Maybe he won't have to?
I am keeping chin up and positive attitude, and with the universe on my side, we will fly to Chicago tomorrow and have surgery as scheduled!
Administrator, I hope this post is still within the subject it's supposed to and is not too far off subject. I think it's related, as my reconstruction is a direct result of using black salve. But I'm just asking...
Reply author: djt10
Replied on: 03/18/2013 14:20:18
Message:
I'm getting ready to head out to see someone I've never met--to deliver some salve and instructions. Stage 4 cancer of the lungs now spread to the stomach. In operable tumors, one lung already collapsed. This is so hard, dealing with other people's disease, feeling responsible. I told her on the phone, "no guarantees" but what does she have to lose at this point? Sure, pain, scarring, maybe too late--but I can say at least that I'm grateful it's not on the face. That is FAR too traumatic. Hoxsey, I think about you a lot, particularly when I told her we would just do a smaller, quarter-sized area on the stomach and she wondered if it shouldn't cover a much larger area. No one will ever know if doing a smaller salve area on your nose would have had a better cosmetic outcome, because if there was a very large area underneath the skin that was cancerous or heading in that direction, the outcome might have been the same as it all came to the surface, but I'm starting with a coin-sized application on this lady and we'll see what happens from there. In case anyone is wondering, I won't be touching her. I'm going to re-apply salve to my breast since it's healed over now and show her how I do it. She and her husband can take care of it on her. The first person we ever heard of doing the salve was a friend of my husbands since childhood and she wouldn't even talk to us about it. It saved her life so she went out and helped other people do the treatment and then got threatened with arrest and prison for "practicing medicine without a license". I wouldn't mind getting arrested and making an issue out of the whole thing, but I'd rather be able to defend myself than not.
Reply author: julypanda
Replied on: 03/20/2013 02:03:06
Message:
Good luck for your second round of surgery Hoxsey. I hope that everything goes well for you and your concerns from the previous surgery will all be "normal".
My heart goes out to you. You not only have yourself to worry about, but also now your mum which of course must be quite stressful.
The only advice I can give is take it minute by minute, hour by hour, day by day and try not to think too far ahead.
Prayers for you and for your mum Hoxsey. Take care *hugs*
Reply author: Becca
Replied on: 03/25/2013 20:03:59
Message:
Hoxsey, This is my first posting on this forum. I also had a mishap with black salve on my face and have now had two plastic surgeries to repair the damage. I used the Best on Earth brand as it was the one recommended on blacksalve.com. It didn't only target the spot but all the skin it came in contact with. It was a horrible experience and at first I thought I would never use black salve again. After speaking with a Naturopath in Australia and being sent a different product I have used it several times with great success and it has helped with some other BCC's just as I had seen demonstrated. My heart and prayers go out to you. You will get through all of this but it always takes longer than we would like. I know it's easier said than done but try to keep your stress level down because that can be so hard on your immunity and the healing process. My thoughts are with and your mother. Take good care.
Reply author: djt10
Replied on: 03/25/2013 20:58:26
Message:
Becca, black salve doesn't eat through the flesh. If there's no abnormal tissues on top or beneath, it just sits there and does nothing except possible turn the skin a little pink. What happens is that pus and fluids from killed cells rise to the surface and break through. In spite of the quackwatch nonsense which characterizes black salve as something that eats into the flesh as a corrosive agent, zink chloride is only corrosive to cellulose--the material plant cell walls are made of, not human cells. I don't know how the salve finds it's way to internal sites, only that it does, where it apparently kills off abnormal cells after which the immune system must break them down and dispose of them and that seems to follow a pathway back up to where the the salve was applied. If and when there is massive tissue loss, logically it's because that much tissue was affected even if it hadn't been diagnosed yet. Cancer has been likened to yeast, which is a plant. It may be that the chemical is needed to help penetrate cancer cells so the bloodroot can destroy them, but while bloodroot is specific for this pathology, it isn't corrosive and zinc chloride can't break down human cells, so it stands to reason what was destroyed was abnormal tissues.
I'm working with someone right now who has stage 4 lung cancer, inoperable, one collapsed lung, and it's apparently spread to her stomach and beyond. She's so sick and weak I hated to get involved, but couldn't say no. My homemade salve is good, I'm doing a treatment on myself right now, in fact the second round because I accidentally broke some of the roots off during the first application and you never want that to happen. They need to die and dissolve on their own. But this poor woman--I had her husband use a sterile needle to slightly prick the surface of the skin before applying the salve just to help it along. This is supposed to be a 24hr application, but they've kept applying black salve for the last week because she's barely getting a reaction to it--just little tiny blisters of pus where the skin was pricked and the rest of the area hasn't even turned red yet. I'm going back there tomorrow and I'll see if I can take a photo of how little the salve is working on her, not because the salve isn't good, but because her immune system is so weak it's hardly doing anything. I don't know if there's any help for her or not. We're doing bottled seawater and the maple syrup/soda treatments to try to bring her pH up to a more alkaline level, and the Dr. Budwig shakes to get some of the all-important omega-3 oils into her system, and I just gave her husband instructions on a form of hydrotherapy to kick up her blood circulation and hopefully immune response, and I made her a half-gallon of fresh vegetable juice to drink, but whether she fully cooperates in her own healing process remains to be seen--she was hoping salve would be a quick fix but it just doesn't work that way. No immune system, no cancer salve doing it's job. And no changing the body chemistry means the the cancer-causing conditions remain the same.
On the other hand, keeping the salve area as small as possible is always desirable for internal cancers and for external lesions people usually cover the whole thing which is normally something small on the surface, but salve is pretty relentless. It's too bad that when pus is coming to the surface it seems to follow however widespread the salve was applied but it can get bigger. I put a tiny dot of salve on a tiny hard bump beside my chin and ended up with an eschar the size of a dime, and then a narrow scar but it drained copious amounts of material so I guess the tiny little opening I thought would do the job wasn't enough.
Reply author: bonder
Replied on: 03/25/2013 23:31:44
Message:
Hey Hoxsey, I hope you are doing well...
I wanted to ask djt10 to go to a blog I created recently that has videos about (Schumann Resonance)
http://bioconsciousness.blogspot.com
I have used biofeedback myself some time ago and perhaps the woman with the cancer can become more balanced were she to get outdoors and try to look at the sun if she can.
It is becoming more clear that even the cavemen are considering low vitamin D absorption as a problem in cancer cases. The other side of it is that the (Circadian Rhythm) has been known to be the culprit with immune systems especially in the elderly. http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&output=search&sclient=psy-ab&q=circadian+&btnG=Submit
Depending upon where she lives, it would not surprise me if she got more from being outside now that it is spring and she does not have to stay inside away from the sun and the earth.
Be Well Always,
Bonder
www.canceramerican.com
Reply author: djt10
Replied on: 03/26/2013 01:30:16
Message:
Right on, bonder. I was at her house yesterday and asked her to please go outside and lay in the sun as much as possible. We're in Eastern WA and are beginning to have beautiful, sunny days although it's not exactly warm yet. In fact, I suggested she lay on a blanket on the ground. The electromagnetic field of the earth and sunlight are terribly important and unfortunately the kind of shoe soles we all wear now (that wasn't a problem with leather soles) are a boundary to the healing force of the earth, but sunlight is more critically important. In fact, I found a couple of studies claiming that Vit D pills may do more harm than good. Fish oil like cod liver oil is good but according to the late Dr. Budwig, people with cancer do not assimilate oils well, which is why she has us mix a high-sulfur content protein like cottage cheese with a seed oil like flaxseed oil to make the oil water soluable and able to get through the smallest capillaries. But the point is, sunlight is the best source of the critically important D, and we need it. In fact, I think I've got a page on my website about sun-gazing (too many pages over a 10-year period), or at least I've read a lot about it. Was that Tesla who talked about the life force from direct sunlight? Orgon energy, I think? I'll be very interested in looking at your site. Thanks. I have to go back tomorrow, so I'll work on the lady but she's the type if it doesn't taste good she doesn't want to eat it, or if it doesn't feel good it's too much bother. Not an easy person to try to help, but she's very, very weak and ill so you just do what you can and hope she's up to a better effort. At least her husband is very much supporting all of this and willing to do whatever he can for her.
Reply author: djt10
Replied on: 03/26/2013 01:37:33
Message:
The bio-feedback site looks fascinating, particularly coming from a military base we've been on many times, most recently for a relative's retirement ceremony (we're retired military). I'll get on that tomorrow for myself and go from there. The lady sits at a table where there's a laptop right there. I'll report back.
Reply author: djt10
Replied on: 03/26/2013 01:49:32
Message:
I wonder if that's anything like Dr. Coldwell's mental entrainment stress reduction program? I did that and brought my blood pressure down 10 points, where it stayed. It seemed to dial me down a notch to a more peaceful level.
Reply author: bonder
Replied on: 03/26/2013 06:27:42
Message:
Djt 10,I used the Budwig diet during my healing (wonderful) I think leonard Coldwell is more about anxiety in his package and the biofeedback was more about learning to hear your brain lol....
I sat there and controlled music just by focusing while connected to terminals.
Glad to see you know so much about this, when I looked into this stuff for cancer, I knew that I took in so much just from standing in the ocean
and that being inside during the colder seasons were hardest on me but, had no clue about the 7.83 Hz level....
This is Hoxsey's module so, out of respect, if you want to chat a bit more just go to http://www.topicalinfo.org/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=1073 or look for bonder with approx 10,000 views. I will be back here a bit more hopefully.
Be Well Always,
Bonder
Reply author: djt10
Replied on: 03/26/2013 08:41:08
Message:
Right, I didn't mean to hijack salve business with something interesting to me, but this is also cancer business. By seawater, I meant bottled seawater to drink--the best thing I've ever found for helping to make an acidic pH more alkaline, but breathing and standing in seawater is also good. And anything that helps anxiety and normalizing brainwave activity is also good. But I will go to that link instead of here. Meanwhile, back to trying to figure out what to do about someone whose salve treatment just isn't kicking into gear.
Reply author: bonder
Replied on: 03/26/2013 11:28:25
Message:
Re: Salve not kicking into gear
Well, here I go again, trying to offer too much info for my own good but, people are important. So, Djt10, if the lady is picky about what she eats then, she may very well just not get any better (period)...
Obviously you have lots of experience and I don't even know where to find you to offer this but, here is what allows me to be somewhat conscious and one of very few people with seizures that did not take meds most of my lifetime.
The Ketogenic Diet (limiting glucose and feeding from fat cells)
http://www.cbn.com/cbnnews/healthscience/2012/december/starving-cancer-ketogenic-diet-a-key-to-recovery/
Starving Bad Cells
"Although it wasn't easy, Hatfield stopped eating carbohydrates, which turn into glucose inside your body. Cancer cells love glucose and need it so badly, that if you stop giving it to them, they die."
"It just absolutely amazes me that medical science is just now finding this out," he said.
Well Djt10, apparently for some strange,unknown,hard to understand reason, Medical science is only now realizing that too much glucose might just have a factor in cancer treatment. Imagine that.....
Her husband may want to study this and if she wants to live much longer, she may just have to starve the cancer cells while the Bloodroot basically (unmasks) the cancer for the immune system to mop up.
I hope you do enjoy the Biofeedback and 7.83 Hz videos with tones.
Bravo to you for helping others.
Be Well Always,
Bonder
Reply author: djt10
Replied on: 03/26/2013 12:40:47
Message:
That was one of the first things I told the husband--cancer loves glucose.
I just took a phone call from that woman's brother-in-law, my husband's best buddy. The woman--Darlene--died about an hour ago. Her ankles were getting swollen when I saw her Sunday, and apparently it was because her kidneys were shutting down, but it was a stroke that killed her. I already knew her immune system must have been shot because there was almost no response to the salve at all after applying it fresh daily for a week instead of just the first 24 hours. In fact, I was just about to head up to her house with a camera to take a photo--just to prove that salve isn't corrosive in itself. Her skin didn't even get red. She had a few tiny little slightly raised pustules where I had him lightly prick her skin for better entry, but that's all after a week. Mine on the other hand, the second application, in that same time frame was draining fluid and pus, raised a scab and is still going.
I feel sick. My husband just got back from town and I have to break the news to him. He's known them for years--I just met them for the first a week ago.
Reply author: Hoxsey
Replied on: 03/28/2013 20:44:41
Message:
Becca- thanks for your post...wow. So the entire area reacted? How large a spot did you apply the salve to? What part of your face did you have the basal cell on? And I'm curious as to why you think it just reacted to normal skin? Could the whole spot have been cancer? I still have to question my reaction, so I just wonder what made you think it 'burned' your skin as opposed to the possibility that the whole area was cancerous. Do you have photos? I would really be interested in seeing pics, privately, even, if that would help.?
The bills are coming in, and it's now scaring me as to what my insurance will and won't pay for. But I'm pretty sure I'm going to be in debt to medical bills for the next ten years or so. Just when i was about to get out of debt. I had NO idea that the hospital would be so much, and I tried to ask prior to the surgery, but they just cannot/will not tell you. Plus, somehow my first surgery ended up costing around 24,000 instead of 17,000. Arrrrrrgh!!! I NEVER expected any of this to happen. Dammit!!!!.....
Ok, enough venting-
Djt10- I am so sorry for you and your husbands loss of his friend. How wonderful it was of you to try to help her all you could...
The surgery was easy this time. It's (the nose tip) starting to take shape as he lifted the end and shaped it a little, and now it will take a little time for the skin to start with 'collagen contraction' and begin to sort of Saran Wrap around the cartilage underneath. Next and hopefully last surgery will be in 6 weeks. I will upload a pic or two soon, but probably not tonight. He did not stitch the forehead, said my skin was still a little tight, and will do so next surgery. It's still a big gaping open wound, but I trust Dr. Burget. It's still very strange and a little scary to look at right now. It's like ' how the heck is this ever going to heal without leaving a huge scar?' But he knows his stuff, so big open wound it is!
Oh, and thank you julypanda, for your words of encouragement.... Oh, and my mom has gotten better... She is nowhere close to normal yet, but walks with a walker or her walking sticks, and she did get to come with me to Chicago.
The saga will continue...
Reply author: djt10
Replied on: 03/28/2013 22:28:49
Message:
Becca, according to my research the only organic material zinc chloride is corrosive on is cellulose, found in plant cells (yeast/cancer?) but not human cells. I just watched someone with stage 4 cancer apply black salve every day to the very fragile skin of her stomach and it wouldn't even turn her skin pink. All we got was tiny little slightly raised bumps where I had the husband prick the skin a little to help it penetrate. But she was too far gone and just didn't have an immune system left to work with the salve. I've also put it on a couple of moles where it did absolutely nothing. If you check the progress of the skin after it's first applied, the usual appearance is white spots but no broken skin. That doesn't happen until enough pus and fluid rises to the surface to break through. An internal infection or toxic blood can cause boils or something similar to break through the surface to expel waste products and salve seems to work similarly. Pus means the immune system is going to work breaking down dead or diseased cells and liquifying them for the body to expel. And there's nothing corrosive about bloodroot or some of the other herbs used in some of the other salves (mine just has bloodroot, flour and zinc chloride). Bloodroot has been used in toothpaste and taken internally in capsules, tonics, etc. One bloodroot tonic has 5% zinc chloride taken orally. In fact, I just did a second round on the breast because I broke roots off accidentally the first time and it reacted very quickly but not in a solid scab and part of it wasn't attached by roots and came off so I made up some bloodroot paste without the chemical and put it directly on the raw tissue and it was actually soothing. Given the science involving zinc chloride, it's more likely that you had a much greater tissue involvement than first thought, even if it was in an earlier stage in the surrounding area. That's not to minimize the horror of ending up with facial disfiguration--nobody would want that or to wish it on someone else, but the alternative might have been worse.
Reply author: daltonhartman2
Replied on: 03/29/2013 01:24:44
Message:
Many salves, pastes, poultices, and plasters have been applied directly to ... can also burn the surrounding normal tissue and result in unnecessary scarring. ... The second patient successfully eradicated his tumors but sustained severe ....
---------------
Dalton Hartman
recipes
Reply author: djt10
Replied on: 03/29/2013 02:24:32
Message:
Dalton, the science just doesn't support this concept of corrosiveness to healthy tissue, not with salves that are basically just bloodroot and zinc chloride. If they are something entirely different, that could be true but then it wouldn't be the bloodroot salves that are the topic here. These salves don't eat holes from the outside in, you have morbid material coming to the surface from the inside out and that process takes several days. I've heard for years about putting salve in capsules and taking them internally--a piece the size of a lentil, plus they have bloodroot capsules and tonic with zinc chloride included to drink. But it's the science--go to wikipedia and follow some of the links from there. A person can also be scarred by boils on the skin, that arise from an internal infection. And if enough diseased tissue is dissolved, of course it's going to be disfiguring, but think what it would look like if every bit of diseased tissue was removed surgically. I'm lucky. Where I've used salve, the worst I've ended up with is flat white scars. My husband did 4 treatments in the same place over a couple of years time so he's got a worse scar than any of mine, but even that one isn't bad because his disease was internal and didn't involve any surface cancers. And he's removed a couple of bad looking moles that left no scars at all. Take a look at our pictures. My leg, my husband's groin where he applied salve to treat liver disease, the bad mole on his neck, and my granddaughter where the major part of her scalp was treated with salve to stop a vicious fungal infection. The only scars on her head were in two small spots where the scabs came off prematurely. It didn't really scar the skin but she's got two pencil eraser-sized bald spots where roots were still attached when the scabs came off while I was trying to wash her hair. http://truthquest2.com/cancersalvephotos.htm http://truthquest2.com/cancersalvephotos2.htm
Reply author: anivoc
Replied on: 03/29/2013 10:17:16
Message:
I have said this before but will repeat it here for the sake of Dalton..
I have used Bloodroot paste with Zinc Chloride and know first hand it reacts with diseased skin and at least in my case does not effect healthy skin...
I know this because I have out it on what I perceive to be healthy ( where the sun don't shine) skin for 24 hours with ZERO effect.
Before I ever tried it on a skin cancer..I placed a small dab on my inner thigh that has never ever been sun burned. I covered it up with a bandage and left it for mare than 24 hours. nada, nothing ...zip.
Placed on a skin cancer and Kabam! within seconds I knew I was on a ride I was not going to especially like.
Reply author: anivoc
Replied on: 03/29/2013 10:20:48
Message:
A point to mention here is what is healthy skin...
I have a ton of skin damage on my face and arms...When I applied the paste it was only on the problematic lesion...
To test this further I guess the next thing to do is try it on a area that does not appear to have skin cancer but has been sunburned multiple times and see what happens.
The line may be wider than I am thinking as to what the paste will effect or not effect.
I'll do this in a day or so and report back...gulp
Reply author: julypanda
Replied on: 03/29/2013 20:28:36
Message:
Hi Hoxsey,
So happy to hear that you are progressing well with your new nose, but sad that it is costing you so much. I hope and pray that your insurance covers a massive chunk and you are only out of pocket for a small amount. That, as well as you end up with a beautiful cute little nose Glad to hear your mum is on the improve and able to support your trip to Chicago. Warmest wishes to you and your mum for a lovely Easter and a speedy recovery for you both
xoxoxo
Reply author: Deb
Replied on: 04/02/2013 02:52:55
Message:
Hi Hoxley,
I am also glad to hear that your surgeries are progressing well. I continue to think of your journey and wish you well.
The debt of medical care is a terrible thing. In the UK we have the brilliant NHS (free healthcare)- but that is now being gradually eroded by the current government. People here are going to have to get a lot more pro-active with their healthcare in the future.
I continue to apply salve to my nose around the site of the original reaction until I receive no reaction at all. I'm having mixed results but I believe that quite soon it will be sorted.
The Derm looked a little dismayed (although very interested) at my DIY surgery (her term)but I am to go back in 6 months for a check up; I'll let her biopsy then.
Reply author: djt10
Replied on: 04/02/2013 12:35:27
Message:
A few years ago I spent about 8 days cutting down a shoulder high swamp with a weed wacker around my best friend's rented mobile home so she could move and get her damage deposit back. I stupidly did it wearing a short-sleeved shirt and horribly burned my forearms, which did permanent damage and left the skin spotty. A few weeks ago I watered down my homemade salve and swabbed it over one forearm to see what would happen. There was a little reaction, little pus bumps here and there on the spotty areas, so I know there's damage that reacted to the salve, but certainly not a mass of bumps. Most of the skin was unaffected. Salve simply doesn't react unless there's something there. And like I've already said, a couple of weeks ago I started a deathly ill woman with stage 4 metastasized cancer on salve, which her husband re-applied fresh every day, a other than slightly raised tiny bumps where he pricked the skin with a sterilized needle, her immune system was shot and couldn't mount a contributing response, so she got nothing. You're not going to get pus from liquified dead cells and fluids rising to the surface and breaking through the skin (for internal cancers) without the immune system making that possible.
Reply author: Deb
Replied on: 04/03/2013 01:38:15
Message:
What about black salve and people with compromised immunity conditions? I have Mixed Connective Tissue Disease (a variant of lupus). I know that that this could be a contributing factor to getting cancers - but is it yet known how compromised immunity affects fighting the cancer with black salve?
Reply author: anivoc
Replied on: 04/03/2013 10:00:02
Message:
Wow Hoxey the financial side of your story stinks
..The medical system here in the U.S. is broken...and will break many of us..Hopefully the aesthetic results side of your surgery will be to your satisfaction.
Just a note to all here.... if you ever face a major surgery..We did it with my wife's hip surgery many years ago and it can never hurt to "ask".
BEFORE you agree to have the procedure, try and get every entity that is going to be billing you to accept what the insurance will pay as payment in full..We were able to negotiate @ a $20K savings just by asking. Some would not but the hospital and the main surgeon did.
Reply author: djt10
Replied on: 04/03/2013 19:09:30
Message:
Deb, if you get a full salve reaction, you know your immune system is working because the pus and fluids that come to the surface have to be from the immune system liquifying cells killed by the salve. That's what pus is, and I believe that's what the scab is made of due to someone having a lab analysis of their eschar which identified it as "morbid material" (dead material-pus). In the case I was working on, the woman had stage 4 lung cancer with a collapsed lung, that had at least spread to her stomach and maybe beyond since she died of brain seizures. The only other time I've seen "no reaction" was when there was nothing there, such as with a couple of moles I treated where nothing happened. I've seen salve react to all kinds of things--cirrhosis of the liver, bad moles, a piece of embedded glass in my heel (infection), a lump in the tissues resulting from soft tissue injury, an injury to the breast (soft tissue injury), fungal infection on the head, "liver spots" on the hands, and once applied unexpectedly going after other areas of injury, but we know that pus requires action from the immune system, so if you get a scab you've got immune action going on. Not only the scab, but the inflammation and swelling around the site. That's all activities of a working immune system.
Reply author: Hoxsey
Replied on: 04/04/2013 15:19:27
Message:
Ok, I spoke with dr, Burgets office assistant, and she has somewhat reassured me as to what insurance will pay, but it is still unknown.
Anivoc, that sure is interesting and helpful information about what to do before you go into a procedure.... What a savings!!
Djt10, I am interested to hear about all of the things you say you have seen black salve react to... Infection? Fungus? Cirrhosis? If this is so, what exactly is the mechanism behind the salve? It was my understanding that the bloodroot only responded to cancerous cells. What is the mechanism for bloodroot to react to the other conditions you mentioned? I still think I may have an acidic ph, and/or that the salve was reacting to the yeast in/on my skin. Does anyone know if scientifically, that this could be a possibility?
Reply author: Deb
Replied on: 04/05/2013 13:41:54
Message:
I don't know if I am having a full salve reaction now.
Reply author: djt10
Replied on: 04/05/2013 20:28:56
Message:
Hoxsey, the first treatment we did in 86 was after my husband was diagnosed with cirrhosis. We had no idea if it would work, particularly since he was still drinking, but over a period of 2-3 years we did 4 treatments on his groin area. The 3rd treatment threw him into full detox. Besides a strong salve reaction with a lot of pus and drainage he got terribly ill, couldn't even hold down water, and he was passing a black almost liquid tarry material from the bowels. He was so sick that we drove 200 miles to our naturopath is Spokane, WA to be evaluated and she agreed that he'd gone into full detox and gave him glandular protomorphogens to help support and rebuild his liver. He could also feel the salve pulling in other areas, his lungs, areas where he'd had a flesh-eating infection that didn't heal properly, and his testicles where a fluid-filled sack had developed from an injury site. He was diagnosed at a Veteran's hospital, and several years went back for another go at rehab and even though he had drank right up until then his liver was normal and healthy. I've come to believe that bloodroot reacts to all kinds of abnormal cells or conditions. Studies have proven that it kills cancer cells but it appears to have a much wider application. I did a small lump beside my chin and it went crazy, but it drained white material that appeared to come from several bad teeth since an abscess and tooth pain ended after that. I put it on my heel where there was an embedded piece of glass and ended up with a deep scab like a pencil eraser that came out with the glass in it. As for fungus--absolutely. After a massive antibiotic treatment for mengingoccocal infection, my 2 1/2 year old granddaughter ended up with a horrifying fungal infection of the scalp (Ectothrix Tinea Capitist) hat could have left her permanently bald, I smeared salve over every part of it, a half dozen large patches, and it reacted just like cancer but also stopped the infection in it's tracks after several other remedies failed. They wanted to give her a drug for it, but one of the side effects listed was "death" so no way. I've seen salve pictures where a huge parasite has been removed from people's faces and other body parts where it took out the parasite and tissue around it and allowed it to heal up with hardly any scarring, and read about other conditions responding to it. I think we've barely scratched the surface on what this herb can do. I've read about a tumor or cancer wrapped around a major artery or vein that was inoperable, where the salve removed it without harming the "plumbing". And a naturopath who runs a health food store a few miles away told me a young woman came in and described having an inoperable brain tumor, applying salve at the base of her skull and being cured, but she also put tiny bits (the size of a lentil) in capsules and took in internally.
I've been doing some research on the relationship between cancer and fungus. I know that zinc chloride is corrosive to cellulose, the main component of plant cell walls and have always believed fungus was "plant", and that cancer cells were like or closely related to fungus which seemed to explain why it might help break down cancer/fungal cell walls so the bloodroot could penetrate and kill the abnormal cells, but I was wrong. Fungi is a classification of it's own and it's described as closer to animal cells than plant in makeup, and both fungi and cancer cells have cell membranes instead of cell walls. However, fungi contain something almost but not quite identical to cellulose, which is CHITIN, and I believe the chemical would react to that the same as cellulose, but I'm waiting to hear from an expert. The interesting thing is that cancer cells do not contain cellulose but they do contain chitin, and there is a connection to fungi. In doing this research, I came across a very interesting page on the genesis of cancer that people are better off reading than me trying to explain, but it has to do with injury and what happens to injured tissue, how cancer is actually part of the healing process, but that under certain conditions it doesn't resolve the way it's supposed to and uncontrolled replication takes place. To me this explains a lot--why salve would react to something that is not clearly a fungal infection or developed cancer but maybe heading that way because it's an unhealed tissue injury of some kind. Also, bloodroot has blood purification aspects according to some of the literature on it, so it may be triggering some detoxing around an injury site as well as dealing with abnormal tissues. I'm just a lay person and much of the material I find is over my head, but after seeing what I've seen in 27 years of dealing with salve, I've got a healthy respect for it but looking at it as a tiger, not a kitten, and one I don't know enough about yet. How could we? --alternative medicine is such a threat to the powers that be (big pharma and everything it controls and influences) that who is ever going to fund or allow the kind of testing and trials that are needed for more answers? All I can do is try to put pieces together like in a jigsaw puzzle. We all deserve better than that.
http://campaignfortruth.com/Eclub/230204/CTM%20-%20abcs%20Cancer.htm
http://www.davidicke.com/articles/medicalhealth-mainmenu-37/29121
Reply author: Deb
Replied on: 04/11/2013 07:17:59
Message:
Thanks Djt 10. Interesting stuff and I've had a good read. x
Reply author: anivoc
Replied on: 04/11/2013 10:42:42
Message:
Hi DJT10
Great info and perspective...
No I don't believe anyone here is a medical doctor and most of us ( me included ) do not have much more if even a high school chemistry background...What we all are is common human beings with a common problem that to date modern medicine is still "practicing" on.
Not even remotely close to a medical doctor in medical training.. I personally know some, have talked with 100's and can say for sure they are just human and for the most part have to stay within the lines and restrictions that our society has placed upon them.
I don't believe there is this diabolical plot by "Big Pharma" to suppress simple cures..The Ceo's and every single person below including the scientist all eventually have family or close friends that suffer and or die from cancer..
The fact is to date there is no cookie cutter "simple cure"..
The way our system is set up, it is a very convoluted and complex mess that does not nurture blatant and bold experimentation. Due to the mad circle of litigation the real enemies are not Big Pharma but our legal system, lawyers and insurance companies. They together put the fear of financial ruin in the industry. It kills innovation and experimentation at the level of the local Doctor. He can't for his own legal safety "experiment". No we have to have special "clinical trials" which is a fancy word for a ton of legal paperwork that leaves the experimenters less liable for experimenting.
Sad but very real situation..
We as lay people are free to experiment but missing the medical education of most doctors our experimentation lacks that perspective.
In some cases that may be a good thing in others not so much.
Ok enough on that..
You have shared a lot of info and I have some questions and thoughts on my own findings.
In regards to what Blood root paste will attack or react to I believe
and agree it can attack other things and as you have indicated in your own experience it definitely has..
I do know personally that on me it had NO EFFECT on healthy skin when applied on my inner upper thigh as a test ..knowing there was ZERO sun damage there..
You mentioned your husband back in 86 and what sounds like some serious battles to stay alive using bloodroot.
1. I am hoping the answer to this is Yes but did he survive and do you believe it was bloodroot paste that gave him more time here?
2. You mention both Bloodroot Paste and just Bloodroot.
Are you only using Bloodrooot Paste or are you also using bloodroot powder. I know some use powder internally. Please explain.
3. We're not necessarily about promoting one brand over another but are you using a particular brand or making the paste and concoctions yourself?
4.I am curious on your grandaughter (that was gutsy) I would have had a hard time selling that one to my daughter and her husband.
Did you use bloodroot paste or just bloodroot.
Once applied did it turn all white and them scab or eschar up? Please explain further on this.
Lastly on Zinc Chloride ..This is just my findings to date...It is corrosive.. I have been working on a lot of AK and BCC with a Vit C concoction and added a 50% dilluted version of Zinc Chloride to the mix with what appears to be positive results.
When I put it straight ( at 50% ) on healty skin I don't get much of a reaction slight redness but it definitely seems to effect the AKs making them more red and scaling..I'm thinking it may be a light carrier similar to what DMSO does just not as powerful.. This is just guessing..not sure.
Looking forward to hearing your answers.
Reply author: djt10
Replied on: 04/13/2013 19:07:02
Message:
Hi Anivoc,
My research and writing began in 1979, years before BS came up, and along the way studying the history of medicine how things developed and progressed from natural healing to pharmaceutical medicine. One good example is the Hoxey protocol that was so successful, so much so that the head of the FDA wanted to buy it from him. If I recall, he had agreed to the sale with one stipulation, that those who couldn't afford it were to be provided with it for free. Fishbein (I think that was his name) refused, the sale fell through and because he couldn't control it, he destroyed Hoxey, got all of his clinics closed down, etc. In the early 1900's, BS used to be sold over the counter in drug stores. But it did indeed, like most alt med protocols come under the attach of immensely rich and powerful pharma companies because they can't patent it, and profit from it, so they suppress it. The history of naturopathic medicine, chiropractic, homeopathy, and many forms of alt med are all tied up with big pharma, who controls medical schools, medical journals, the AMA and government health related agencies--the history of vaccination alone is a horror story. Of course individuals in pharma companies have personal concerns. My old naturopath said he often had medical doctors refer patients or come in themselves, but under assumed names and referrals were under the table. Are you aware that FDA trials are only allowed for drugs. The only exception I've ever heard of is for fish oil. It went through trials and they are allowed to claim some health benefits. Otherwise, only approved drugs can make health claims. I don't blame medical doctors. They come out of the stall brainwashed and there are serious repercussions if they stray from the fold. They could technically lose their license and go to prison for even writing out a pain script for their own patient doing a salve treatment. But of course the legal system is mixed up in all of this. What a mess. But who do they work for? Big pharma grew from the patent medicine trade, which in turn was heavily involved with oil companies--a marriage made in hell. Petroleum by-products as I recall.
Anyway, yes my husband was an alcoholic pot-head in 1986, diagnosed with cirrhosis of the liver. He came from a family of alcoholics, several of which died from cirrhosis or liver cancer that evolved from cirrhosis. He's now 76 (I'm 65) and at the moment at helping his best friend cut down trees. He finally quit drinking a few years ago but has smoked for about 60 years, both cigarettes and pot and is in disgustingly good health. As for the BS, I'm sure it saved his life. But we did a pretty comprehensive protocol with it. Triggering a full scale detox was unexpected, but I have a feeling that was even more effective than just what came out of the salve site. I've gone through that twice myself, once as part of naturopathic treatment, and once on the 4th day of a water fast. It's a life-saver.
It's so long ago I don't remember the exact sequence of events but I think I had the recipes but no salve yet because I couldn't find a source of zinc chloride. I did get some bloodroot powder and made up the recipe without the zinc chloride, which makes it just a paste. Bloodroot powder, white floor and water cooked on a double boiler. I didn't figure that would do anything for him so we applied it to an external tumor on our dog. It was quite large and hanging beside her anus. The paste turned the tumor gray and was obviously killing it, but she kept biting at it. We couldn't keep bandages or the paste on her so we gave up and took her to the vet. He removed the rest of it...and the root, which went clear to the end of her tail. Then somebody gave us a little salve which we used on my husband. It lasted for quite a while. Years later, I found an online source for the zinc chloride, and we made out own. In the beginning we had no idea you could buy it anywhere. Everybody we knew made their own from the same recipe, which was published in our county newspaper. It was supposed to be an expose on quack cancer treatments, but they published both of the recipes and full instructions, so my area became an underground hot spot for salve treatments although I'm sure many people had the same trouble I did finding a source for the chemical. My salve is simple--just bloodroot powder, zinc chloride, white flour and water cooked on low heat for about 30 minutes. These days the cost of the chemical has skyrocketed, so I'd buy the ready-made paste. My first choice would be Cansema, but "Best On earth" products and tumorX all have good reputations. There is fake Cancema out there, so I'd stick with the ones I know about.
What I describe as "paste" is just the bloodroot powder cooked up without zinc chloride. You can put that directly on raw flesh without pain, where with mine you couldn't stand to touch raw flesh with the salve. The pain is terrible. I'm going to try that on the eschar after it begins to loosen and after it comes out just to see what happens. It has no ability to penetrate skin that I've seen, but I'm wondering if it will absorb when there is an open "wound". I know they use bloodroot in some kind of toothpaste or at least used to, and maybe in some other products. I've heard about bloodroot pills and Best On Earth has bloodroot capsules that have other ingredients. It sounded kind of like Cansema, but no zinc chloride. Cansema (it has another name now)is now also a tonic with 5% zinc chloride, I believe. I'd like to try the internal remedies.
Zinc chloride is described as "corrosive", especially by quackwatch, but I did some research and the scientific info I found describes it as corrosive but only to cellulose as far as organic matter is concerned. To silk, also I think it said, but I was looking specifically for it's corrosive action on organic matter. It's corrosive to a number of non-organic materials. I went digging though online scientific articles using different search terms, and that's how I found the connection of chitin (the matter in crabshell cell walls, etc.) to cellulose, and cellulose to zinc chloride. I emailed a couple of authors who wrote related articles involving zinc chloride but have gotten no responses. These guys have doctorates and I can barely read their articles, so they probably won't bother. Since cancer cell membranes contain chitin just like fungi cell membranes, but normal human cells don't, and chitin is closely related to cellulose, and zinc chloride is corrosive to cellulose, if it's also corrosive to chitin, as I believe, it would explain the ability of zinc chloride to break through cancer cell walls without harming normal cells.
My daughter has been through hell at the hands of conventional medicine. We followed naturoapthic medicine and NO VACCINATIONS, but she was forced to submit to a vaccination on a military base when she was 5, and it caused a flesh-eating infection that could have killed her. It was so virulent that my husband and I both got the infection ourselves from contact, in every scratch, hangnail and mosquito bite. We had to flee the state of Texas in the dark of night (long story, it's on my website) to treat it ourselves. So, she's grown up with naturopathic medicine. All she had to do was read the package insert for the drugs they wanted to give her baby girl to throw it all out and come running. We tried several other things first, but that fungal infection was relentless. Nothing stopped it and it was spreading. Believe me, I was scared to death but just lathered it on over every patch--about 6 areas, I think. One thing about a more superficial condition like that. Apparently it didn't cause much pain at all. She never complained, although after the eschars really got going she didn't want me to touch them. It absolutely cured the infection and all of her hair grew back except in two small spots where the scabs came off prematurely. You never want that to happen while the roots are still attached. They need to dissolve and release the scab on it's own. Take a look at pictures of someone whose fungal infection was treated medically: http://truthquest2.com/cancersalvephotos2.htm (towards the bottom of the page).
I just recently did a breast treatment. I started out pricking the skin with a needle slightly to get it going, and at first the white spots were only where it was pricked so I put salve on for 3-4 days instead of 24hrs and it eventually did form a white area which progressed to a scab. I have pictures but on a camera I need to get a computer cord for to upload. Then there was a white area around the scab--pus I think. That's where it broke through and the scab loosened. The thing is, most of our scabs look yellow instead of black because of the yellow salve. When I did one on my leg I tried scraping off the yellow salve to see what the scab looked like underneath and apparently took the scab covering off. What was underneath looked like something from outer space. You can see that on this page: http://truthquest2.com/cancersalvephotos.htm
I've tried removing a couple of benign moles on myself with absolutely no luck --slightly pink skin and nothing else. But I put salve on another one that looked a little different and it went crazy.
When we do treatments, it usually turns white first and then the scab develops over time. I think you can see that in some of my photos
Reply author: julypanda
Replied on: 04/23/2013 07:21:50
Message:
Hi Hoxsey, Just wondering how you and your mum are going of late. Hope all is good for you both and that you are getting your lovely new nose, and that your mum is walking with ease as each day passes.
Take care and best wishes to you both. :-)
Reply author: scienceisgood
Replied on: 04/25/2013 18:18:09
Message:
You are all idiots. 'Real' doctor? I think you mean real doctor (uses science and evidence based medicine). 'Natural' route? Never proven to work and known to cause significant harm. Oh dear..
Reply author: djt10
Replied on: 04/25/2013 18:35:34
Message:
If science is your god, god help you.
The only "proof" out there is the horrendous, well-documented outcome of conventional cancer treatments. Statistically, we are in far worse shape now as a nation than when the "war on cancer" began decades ago. A 2.1% "success" rate (survival at 5 years) for chemotherapy, compared to a 5% survival rate for doing absolutely nothing (spontaneous recovery) tells the whole story. Happily, there are scientific studies and research supporting the effectiveness of bloodroot on cancer cells specifically, and at least one study done on a cohort of cancer patients using salve (over 5 thousand, I believe)successfully. I know many people who have used salve effectively including myself and other family members, friends, and acquaintances, not even counting internet contacts. One Australian patient I was in contact with during his treatment for a very aggressive SCC was the only patient his oncologist had with that type who survived. That wise doctor supposed his patient's choice and monitored the condition while it was ongoing and then biopsied the area later to document the lack of infection or cancer remaining. But that's your choice. Hold tight to your "faith" in conventional medicine. The "Church of Modern Medicine" needs your continued support (until your insurance runs out and they kick you to the curb).
My best friend Sherry, who did a breast treatment with salve a few weeks ago after getting a bad mammogram that was evaluated by several specialists, just had another one done. It is now completely normal and she sent me the medical report to prove it.
Reply author: BlondeAmbition3
Replied on: 04/27/2013 13:11:23
Message:
quote:
Originally posted by scienceisgood
You are all idiots. 'Real' doctor? I think you mean real doctor (uses science and evidence based medicine). 'Natural' route? Never proven to work and known to cause significant harm. Oh dear..
I'm a 'living' Idiot instead of a dead one.
Reply author: julypanda
Replied on: 04/27/2013 20:45:52
Message:
well said blondeambition !!!!!
Reply author: djt10
Replied on: 04/28/2013 18:02:55
Message:
Amen to that. I know very few people who have survived conventional cancer therapy. And the only person I know who has died while using black salve did so at stage 4 only days after an application that didn't even have time to react, not that she had any immune system left to work with. There's not one single person in my family or my husband's who has survived "state of the art" treatment. My naturopath refered to conventional treatment as "barbaric" and in complete violation of the laws of nature as to healing. He never lost a cancer patient who went to him first instead of last, and was able to cure many who had already been given up on by their oncologists, which means when their insurance ran out. He was known as an "naturopathic oncology pioneer". In the late 70's when I had treatment (didn't know about salve back then), it cost $50 for an evaluation and $10 a day for treatment, which for me lasted about 5 weeks. Now, with the next generation it's $300 and $25 a day. Even with what they have, my current doctor asked me for my salve formulas. By the way "science", the licensed M.D.'s in the Philippines have brought salve treatment into mainstream medicine there, after obseriving it's effectiveness. And even though black salve used to be sold over the counter in drugstores in the early 1900's and before, it will never gain FDA approval unless the pharmaceutical companies can turn it into a drug, patent it, and put an obscene price tag on it. We so love what the FDA does. A little "Thalidomide" anyone?
"Natural medicine" never proven to work? What do you think medicine was before petroleum by-products gave birth the the pharmaceutical industry? I know, Hypocrites was a quack.
Reply author: BlondeAmbition3
Replied on: 04/29/2013 10:25:12
Message:
quote:
Originally posted by djt10
Amen to that. I know very few people who have survived conventional cancer therapy. And the only person I know who has died while using black salve did so at stage 4 only days after an application that didn't even have time to react, not that she had any immune system left to work with. There's not one single person in my family or my husband's who has survived "state of the art" treatment. My naturopath refered to conventional treatment as "barbaric" and in complete violation of the laws of nature as to healing. He never lost a cancer patient who went to him first instead of last, and was able to cure many who had already been given up on by their oncologists, which means when their insurance ran out. He was known as an "naturopathic oncology pioneer". In the late 70's when I had treatment (didn't know about salve back then), it cost $50 for an evaluation and $10 a day for treatment, which for me lasted about 5 weeks. Now, with the next generation it's $300 and $25 a day. Even with what they have, my current doctor asked me for my salve formulas. By the way "science", the licensed M.D.'s in the Philippines have brought salve treatment into mainstream medicine there, after obseriving it's effectiveness. And even though black salve used to be sold over the counter in drugstores in the early 1900's and before, it will never gain FDA approval unless the pharmaceutical companies can turn it into a drug, patent it, and put an obscene price tag on it. We so love what the FDA does. A little "Thalidomide" anyone?
"Natural medicine" never proven to work? What do you think medicine was before petroleum by-products gave birth the the pharmaceutical industry? I know, Hypocrites was a quack.
Reply author: reddoor
Replied on: 04/30/2013 01:36:23
Message:
Hi Hoxsey, just wanted to say my thoughts are with you. I am new to this site and my heart goes out to you, I too tried black salve and the whole area reacted but with careful skin care and not as bad as a reaction as you experienced scarring was minimal, which is possibly due only to the small amount I applied. You don't have to reply and maybe you never will, but i just want to say to all who use black salve on the face, try to use the mildest one you can purchase if your going to use it at all !!!!!!..all the best Hoxsey and I hope your face heals so that you can get on with your life. Your a very brave person...
ps...djt10 please dont reply to my post...This message is for Hoxsey and you have said quite alot already...No offense :)
Reply author: djt10
Replied on: 04/30/2013 10:22:56
Message:
Sorry reddoor, but you don't get to direct my posting activities. No offense. There are no "mild" salves of this kind, with bloodroot and zinc chloride. They either work or they don't to penetrate as deeply as needed with cancer, pre-cancer, fungus, or other abnormal conditions. If something is on the surface, you cover the whole area. If it's deeper in the tissues, you go after it with a small area of salve. But people can water it down like a wash to see what's going to react on the surface. I did that on the outside of both hands, but it still brought on a full reaction (selectively) with the brown spots, which are apparently not as benign as one would think, although I've read that the liver spots are indicative of similar areas in the brain. However, if people want to go to a different type of salve, the book "Cancer Salves" by Ingrid Naiman has many different formulas/recipes, most of which one would probably have to make up at home.
(from http://truthquest2.com/cancersalves.htm)
"Scaring and mutilation: Before damning escharotics as being scaring and mutilating please consider the effect of other heroic measures such as surgery, chemotherapy and radiation. Cancer is a serious disease and its treatment whether conventional or so-called natural is serious and not without consequences. Let's assume, again without the research that I would really like to see, that there are cases where the cancer cells extend beyond expected areas and the salves cause massive disfigurement and scaring. Or even that on some individuals the keratinized areas of the skin or deeper tissues are susceptible to damage by the salve (although most claim it is not and I have never seen it to be), there will be a need for reconstructive surgery for some. Again, one only chooses this technique not because it is risk free, but because it offers the best possible outcome over any other method considered. That is the price that one pays. Some who undergo it, either ill advised or with misleading expectations, understandably may be seriously upset with the outcome, this happens all the time in conventional treatment of cancer, so why should it not be a reality in so-called alternative medicine." http://www.planetherbs.com/articles/thoughts_on_the_use_of_escharoti.htm
by Dr. Michael Tierra L.AC., O.M.D.
Founder of the American Herbalists Guild,
author of numerous books on health and herbal healing including:
The Way of Herbs, The Natural Remedy Bible and The Way of Chinese Herbs, (Pocket Books),
Planetary Herbology, Chinese Traditional Herbal Medicine, Vol. 1 & 2
Biomagnetic and Herbal Therapy (Lotus Press) and The East West Course of Herbology.
Thoughts on the Use of Escharotic Pastes for the Treatment of Cancer
August 30, 2005 --Michael Tierra
Reply author: djt10
Replied on: 04/30/2013 11:49:38
Message:
Around 2000 I got deep burns on both hands and arms up to above the elbow to where a t-shirt sleeve ends after spending 8 days in the August sun cutting down a shoulder-high swamp for a close friend so she could get her damage deposit back on a rental property out in the country. I knew later there would be a price to pay. About 4 years ago I decided to water down some salve and swab it over my hands up past my wrists just to see if it would isolate bad areas, particularly liver spots. It didn't just "isolate" a number of spots, those spots went into a full reaction. On my right hand below the first finger one spot dug in deep and the pain went to the end of that finger, and it left a slightly depressed, longish scar, so there was a lot more going on than I expected. The skin and tissue is damaged so I know I need to do the rest of my arms but it will be a little at a time, I think. I just now took pictures of my hands (no apologies for the wrinkles because I'm 65 years old) to show the scars made by a very thin, watered down application, just swabbed on with a cotton ball. On the other hand, it was VERY selective. Bad spots only. Since 1986 I've probably done a dozen applications on myself in different areas for different things. This was the only time I did a thin, diluted treatment. It felt pretty savage, but only reacted here and there, not over the entire area.
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Reply author: BlondeAmbition3
Replied on: 04/30/2013 12:19:19
Message:
quote:
Originally posted by djt10
Sorry reddoor, but you don't get to direct my posting activities. No offense. There are no "mild" salves of this kind, with bloodroot and zinc chloride. They either work or they don't to penetrate as deeply as needed with cancer, pre-cancer, fungus, or other abnormal conditions. If something is on the surface, you cover the whole area. If it's deeper in the tissues, you go after it with a small area of salve. But people can water it down like a wash to see what's going to react on the surface. I did that on the outside of both hands, but it still brought on a full reaction (selectively) with the brown spots, which are apparently not as benign as one would think, although I've read that the liver spots are indicative of similar areas in the brain. However, if people want to go to a different type of salve, the book "Cancer Salves" by Ingrid Naiman has many different formulas/recipes, most of which one would probably have to make up at home.
(from http://truthquest2.com/cancersalves.htm)
"Scaring and mutilation: Before damning escharotics as being scaring and mutilating please consider the effect of other heroic measures such as surgery, chemotherapy and radiation. Cancer is a serious disease and its treatment whether conventional or so-called natural is serious and not without consequences. Let's assume, again without the research that I would really like to see, that there are cases where the cancer cells extend beyond expected areas and the salves cause massive disfigurement and scaring. Or even that on some individuals the keratinized areas of the skin or deeper tissues are susceptible to damage by the salve (although most claim it is not and I have never seen it to be), there will be a need for reconstructive surgery for some. Again, one only chooses this technique not because it is risk free, but because it offers the best possible outcome over any other method considered. That is the price that one pays. Some who undergo it, either ill advised or with misleading expectations, understandably may be seriously upset with the outcome, this happens all the time in conventional treatment of cancer, so why should it not be a reality in so-called alternative medicine." http://www.planetherbs.com/articles/thoughts_on_the_use_of_escharoti.htm
reddoor, To echo djt10, 'No offense'... but I completely support EVERYTHING djt10 has posted above. Advising people 'to go easy' with the topical applications of Blood root is as potentially dangerous as advising them not to consider using it at all....(even IF your advise DOES result in less disfigurement and/or scarring, FEAR TACTICS CAN AND DO PREVENT people from investigating 'alternative' therapeutic/healing modalities that they otherwise might be open to).... CANCER itself (if given enough time) scars AND disfigures, (in addition to KILLS)... with or without the aid of Blood root, Surgery or what have you. The Noses/Lips/ or other appendages or parts that are scarred or disfigured due to extremely ADVANCED/Metastatic/Systemic Cancers will be utterly destroyed (given more time) should conventional Oncologists/Other Surgeons or Doctors not intervene...again, without the application of Blood root/Black Salve. In cases where THAT happens (Medical Intervention or Surgery) the damage/disfigurement and/or scarring is generally worse, if not just as bad as the Black Salves and/or Blood root pastes and reconstructive work generally follows for those who can afford it. Add to those woes the almost inescapable likelihood of an institutional strength post operative 'super-bug' or 'infection' setting in that could have you 'fighting for your Life' in yet another way. I have experienced this firsthand and personally. I'm scarred from Blood root all over my body.... but especially my face... my forehead is one huge scar... but I assure you, I'm GRATEFUL for that scar... because it reminds me every day that because of Blood root/Black Salve I'm a stage 4 Cancer SURVIVOR, who wants to devote the rest of her Life 'paying it forward' and sharing MY Story to anyone and everyone who will listen, in the hopes that they too can find the 'path' to their healing by being 'living proof' that there IS an alternative path to be had.
Forgive me, if like djt10, I get a little 'sensitive' when people want to 'censor' our voices with theirs. djt10's Site is one of the many that 'aided' in the many 'paths' that led to my healing, (which began in 2007).... with Blood root/Black Salve being my "Star" Modality along that path. It's with 'courage' and 'bravery' we cheat death
by trying the less conventional, but for many of us there are no other options. Every day above the dirt is a good day for many of us. 
I own Ingrid Naiman's "Cancer Salves" Book and have found it to be an invaluable resource. If ANYONE would like some of the Salve 'Recipes' from the Book, just let me know and I'd be happy to share them.
I've attached a photo for everyone's viewing pleasure... or lack thereof....
The 'Before' Photo is after one 'small/thin' application of Blood Root Paste/Black Salve (CANSEMA Formula)... the 'other' Photo you see is my 'After'.... the scars are quite there, but as you can see make-up is a very good friend to me.... :)
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Reply author: BlondeAmbition3
Replied on: 04/30/2013 12:27:34
Message:
quote:
Originally posted by djt10
Around 2000 I got deep burns on both hands and arms up to above the elbow to where a t-shirt sleeve ends after spending 8 days in the August sun cutting down a shoulder-high swamp for a close friend so she could get her damage deposit back on a rental property out in the country. I knew later there would be a price to pay. About 4 years ago I decided to water down some salve and swab it over my hands up past my wrists just to see if it would isolate bad areas, particularly liver spots. It didn't just "isolate" a number of spots, those spots went into a full reaction. On my right hand below the first finger one spot dug in deep and the pain went to the end of that finger, and it left a slightly depressed, longish scar, so there was a lot more going on than I expected. The skin and tissue is damaged so I know I need to do the rest of my arms but it will be a little at a time, I think. I just now took pictures of my hands (no apologies for the wrinkles because I'm 65 years old) to show the scars made by a very thin, watered down application, just swabbed on with a cotton ball. On the other hand, it was VERY selective. Bad spots only. Since 1986 I've probably done a dozen applications on myself in different areas for different things. This was the only time I did a thin, diluted treatment. It felt pretty savage, but only reacted here and there, not over the entire area.
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Thank you for sharing djt10
Reply author: julypanda
Replied on: 04/30/2013 16:32:06
Message:
I think what reddoor is trying to say is that this post has gone away from being about Hoxsey and her ordeal with black salve.
Yes it is good to have a debate about the plus or minus of black salve, however people have been following Hoxsey's story every stop of the way and it has now become more of a debate rather than about this beautiful brave young lady.
Keep debating, it makes a good read and is very informative, but maybe start up your own post ....
Best of luck with your final op Hoxsey. thoughts and prayers are with you
Reply author: reddoor
Replied on: 04/30/2013 17:46:16
Message:
Thank you julypanda thats exactly what i was getting at...I wont be posting again or even looking at it so dont bother replying or debating with me....but again just wanted to say all the best to Hoxsey and my thoughts are with her..This was her post and it appears to now be someone elses..so bye and as I said before be careful when using this product on your face :)
Reply author: djt10
Replied on: 04/30/2013 17:54:52
Message:
I doubt if anyone for even a moment here has forgotten Hoxsey, who hasn't posted for a while. I know I haven't, and hope and pray for the best for her. But her story has opened up a dialog that is important--particularly whether salve "eats into" whatever it comes in contact with, whether normal or diseased tissues, the nature of salves, the application of salves, and other relevant issues that need discussion. Reddoor brought up a personal experience meant as a warning, just as others of us have brought up personal experiences in the same way--not as a scare tactic like that post, but to share important information that Hoxey opened up for us ...thankfully.
Reply author: BlondeAmbition3
Replied on: 04/30/2013 20:08:50
Message:
I certainly didn't mean to detract (or derail) Hoxsey's post and my prayers and thoughts are with her continually. I am following this thread closely anticipating her return.
Reply author: djt10
Replied on: 04/30/2013 20:32:14
Message:
None of us have, I think I can safely say, but she's not here and even if she was, this is still relevant to her case and the questions it has raised. By the way--you look FABULOUS!!
Reply author: BlondeAmbition3
Replied on: 04/30/2013 21:26:56
Message:
quote:
Originally posted by djt10
None of us have, I think I can safely say, but she's not here and even if she was, this is still relevant to her case and the questions it has raised. By the way--you look FABULOUS!!
Thank you. I'm alive and grateful.
Reply author: Hoxsey
Replied on: 05/11/2013 13:49:41
Message:
Lots of posts with great information since my last posting!
I had my third, and possibly my final surgery may the 4th. He removed the pedicle and stitched up the forehead. Recovery was pretty easy but a little harder than my second surgery. Three days later we had my post op appt to remove stitches. My nose tip turned a little purple after the surgery, but by the post op appt, it was amazingly back to an even more normal color than it was before the surgery.
I read back on my previous posts, and am surprised to see I never mentioned that my left nostril was pretty narrow and gave me problems when trying to sleep. I mentioned this to Dr. Burget at my pre op appt, and I was surprised to hear he could go in and try to open it up. Awesome!
Here's where the story turns a bit. And this has nothing to do with black salve, except for the fact that I used it on my nose, but I suppose this could be anyone's story after the fact, and this is just an example of what could happen during the process.
After this surgery, my left nostril seemed worse than before. I could barely breathe through it at all. I mentioned this to Dr. Burget at the post op appt, and he attributed it to swelling, even though I also mentioned that I could see something up in the nostril that looked like a 'wall'. He never looked up my nose, even when I mentioned this. That was Tuesday. Thursday night, back home, I still couldn't breathe much at ALL through that nostril, so I went to the magnifying mirror with a flashlight. What I saw up in my nose with this closer look WAS a wall, that looked like it had 'grid work' on it. Yup, it was gauze. I could tell because I tried to pull on it a little with tweezers, and it started to come out. After much debate of what to do at that point, I decided to try to get it out. (i had been having major sinus drainage and congestion up to this point.) Tweezers in hand, and very unsure, I pulled about 4 inches of ribbon gauze out until it wouldn't budge any more. It just stopped, and it hurts too much to pull any harder. It feels like its stuck to something fragile.
I called the doc and he sort of laughed it off and said cut it off, give it a few days, it will fall out. It could be stuck to a 'blood clot'. (No, he did not knowingly leave the gauze there. It was left behind accidentally.) The second time I called him to ask if it was safe to take Sudafed, he suggested 'soaking' it in saline water, which I tried twice, with no change. I have tried everything aside from just pulling harder, with no results. I believe it has adhered to my nasal passages. I'll be going to an ENT Monday, if its still stuck, which I would bet good money that 'it will be'. The worst part is that I am just MISERABLE with drainage and congestion in my sinuses. I am convinced its my nasal passages trying to dislodge the foreign body. So until it comes out, this SUCKS!
On the other hand, my nose looks really great! He did a superb job at that part. Which is the most important part, in the end. It will take up to a year and a half for the swelling to completely go down, but in about four months, it should look pretty close to what the final result will be. It's a little round still, but he says give it time.
I can't wait to get this gauze out and end this chapter, and FEEL BETTER!
Reply author: BlondeAmbition3
Replied on: 05/11/2013 14:25:57
Message:
quote:
Originally posted by Hoxsey
Lots of posts with great information since my last posting!
I had my third, and possibly my final surgery may the 4th. He removed the pedicle and stitched up the forehead. Recovery was pretty easy but a little harder than my second surgery. Three days later we had my post op appt to remove stitches. My nose tip turned a little purple after the surgery, but by the post op appt, it was amazingly back to an even more normal color than it was before the surgery.
I read back on my previous posts, and am surprised to see I never mentioned that my left nostril was pretty narrow and gave me problems when trying to sleep. I mentioned this to Dr. Burget at my pre op appt, and I was surprised to hear he could go in and try to open it up. Awesome!
Here's where the story turns a bit. And this has nothing to do with black salve, except for the fact that I used it on my nose, but I suppose this could be anyone's story after the fact, and this is just an example of what could happen during the process.
After this surgery, my left nostril seemed worse than before. I could barely breathe through it at all. I mentioned this to Dr. Burget at the post op appt, and he attributed it to swelling, even though I also mentioned that I could see something up in the nostril that looked like a 'wall'. He never looked up my nose, even when I mentioned this. That was Tuesday. Thursday night, back home, I still couldn't breathe much at ALL through that nostril, so I went to the magnifying mirror with a flashlight. What I saw up in my nose with this closer look WAS a wall, that looked like it had 'grid work' on it. Yup, it was gauze. I could tell because I tried to pull on it a little with tweezers, and it started to come out. After much debate of what to do at that point, I decided to try to get it out. (i had been having major sinus drainage and congestion up to this point.) Tweezers in hand, and very unsure, I pulled about 4 inches of ribbon gauze out until it wouldn't budge any more. It just stopped, and it hurts too much to pull any harder. It feels like its stuck to something fragile.
I called the doc and he sort of laughed it off and said cut it off, give it a few days, it will fall out. It could be stuck to a 'blood clot'. (No, he did not knowingly leave the gauze there. It was left behind accidentally.) The second time I called him to ask if it was safe to take Sudafed, he suggested 'soaking' it in saline water, which I tried twice, with no change. I have tried everything aside from just pulling harder, with no results. I believe it has adhered to my nasal passages. I'll be going to an ENT Monday, if its still stuck, which I would bet good money that 'it will be'. The worst part is that I am just MISERABLE with drainage and congestion in my sinuses. I am convinced its my nasal passages trying to dislodge the foreign body. So until it comes out, this SUCKS!
On the other hand, my nose looks really great! He did a superb job at that part. Which is the most important part, in the end. It will take up to a year and a half for the swelling to completely go down, but in about four months, it should look pretty close to what the final result will be. It's a little round still, but he says give it time.
I can't wait to get this gauze out and end this chapter, and FEEL BETTER!
Oh Hoxsey I am so HAPPY to see this post and am anxiously awaiting what I pray to be a desirable outcome for you! You have been such a 'trooper' through everything and your posts will help many. I pray the best for you and my thoughts are with you continually.
Reply author: djt10
Replied on: 05/11/2013 14:26:45
Message:
After everything you've gone through, it's hard to believe a doctor could be that negligent and so off-hand about it. You hear about tools, sponges, etc. being left inside body cavities, but when all a doctor had to do was take a look up inside the nose to maybe avoid all of this unexpected misery--or at least take care of it sooner, it's just too much. Document everything. Take pictures, make someone take action, get it in the records one way or another. Just because someone laughs it off doesn't mean it should be taken lightly. There are already complications for what amounts to negligence, and if it's adhered to healing tissue, there could be more. I don't mean to sound like an alarmist, but as a researcher/writer, I can't underscore enough the necessity of keeping documentation and records of all this incident in every way possible. At the least, this is unnecessary pain and suffering. It may resolve and be over with and put aside but its best to think in terms of being prepared to take some civil action if you decide to do this later even if it isn't even a consideration right now.
Reply author: Hoxsey
Replied on: 05/11/2013 15:35:25
Message:
Thank you Blonde Ambition! By the way, in your second photo, I cannot see ANY scarring. Is there any? You mentioned makeup, so I assume there is some, but I just don't see it. I think my forehead is going to be pretty bad as far as scarring goes. Did you keep it moist for the duration of your healing process?
Djt10- I totally agree with you. I just didn't want to change the topic too much off course, but here goes- I did take video of myself pulling it out and it getting stuck, and I have thought of contacting a lawyer just on the precautionary side of what COULD happen from this. But I haven't yet. It is a little upsetting that it was downplayed so much, but I'm sure doctors are trained to do so as people are so sue-happy, it's probably best to not make a giant deal of it, or admit fault right away. Meanwhile, I am fairly peeved, and I tend to be pretty easy going about things, sometimes to a fault. But I feel a bit left to fend for myself, and that the danger and relevance of the situation has been downplayed.
I think the video is pretty much as much record keeping as I need, what do you think? (Until the day/procedure used to remove it) The only other thing to record is maybe days/times I called the doc to get his advice?? What do you think? I have tried to look up a situation similar to mine on the internet, but really have not found one. (aside from tools etc being sewn up inside a person after surgery)
Reply author: anivoc
Replied on: 05/11/2013 20:14:00
Message:
Hi Hoxsey
So glad to hear the end results look promising.
The gauze story sounds pretty irresponsible and laughing about it as if it were nothing adds to the "give a care" attitude. The fact that he did a good job of restoring your nose is certainly something to be grateful for but you helped him make plenty of luxury car payments for doing that.
I think he owes you at minimum a "free visit" to get the left over gauze..it may be slightly intertwined with live tissue or maybe he's right and it's just attached to a blood clot /scab up there. Maybe using a neti pot to flush it out and get it good wet will help loosen it.
Anyway what a crazy journey you've been through...good thoughts and prayers continuing out to you for a great recovery!
Tom
Reply author: BlondeAmbition3
Replied on: 05/12/2013 00:48:31
Message:
quote:
Originally posted by Hoxsey
Thank you Blonde Ambition! By the way, in your second photo, I cannot see ANY scarring. Is there any? You mentioned makeup, so I assume there is some, but I just don't see it. I think my forehead is going to be pretty bad as far as scarring goes. Did you keep it moist for the duration of your healing process?
Bless your heart Hoxsey.... yes, I have a HUGE scar that you can only barely see (Thank GOD!) in photos only and with a LOT of make up on... and yes I kept it super moist until it got to the 'heal over' stage... that's when I started using Anti-Scar bandages made out of Silicone... they're expensive but they are SO worth it... without these 'special' anti-scarring bandages I believe the final scar would have been much thicker, wider and even more severe. These bandages hasten the healing process and reduce the redness that's in the scar more quickly. They're 'magical' to me and I am so grateful to have found them....Here's the type of bandages I recommend... I had to buy them off Amazon because I couldn't find them locally. (I'm in Florida)....(http://www.amazon.com/ScarAway-Professional-Silicone-Treatment-Sheets/dp/B001AJ4L1E/ref=sr_1_fkmr2_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1368336189&sr=8-1-fkmr2&keywords=anti scar bandages)...These bandages CAN be cut (with scissors) to size AND they ARE re-usable.... just wash them well and re-apply. You will be AMAZED at how much more quickly your scarring will lose it's redness and will 'blend' into the texture of your 'old skin' much more quickly. I was initially very hesitant to use these at first because they are so expensive, but I'm telling you Hoxsey they help tremendously and make a huge difference, so they're worth every penny. I've also found these 'Curad' brand Silicone bandages that are a little cheaper and I couldn't tell a difference in the quality... if you'd like to save a little money: http://www.amazon.com/Curad-Scar-Therapy-21-ct/dp/B002QF1HL8/ref=sr_1_fkmr2_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1368336189&sr=8-3-fkmr2&keywords=anti+scar+bandages.
In 'real life' Hoxsey all I see is this ugly forehead scar... what you can't see in that photo is what I see every day... a big thick shiny 'white' jagged edged scar. While the Silicone bandages helped tremendously, I just had so much Cancerous tissue it's a miracle it looks as well as it does, I suppose, and I'm very grateful for that. I just wear my ball caps & cowboy hats to conceal them completely...(for my benefit moreso, I guess, than for others... everyone else is going to tell you the scars look fine and you can barely see them), but "I" see them and I don't look the same to me, and to me that's the hardest part to embrace. I've included another photo of my forehead scar with no make-up on whatsoever. It's actually more 'pronounced' in real life than this photo portrays because the Camera I used wasn't great. I hope you can see how white and 'shiny' it is and see that it 'puckers' around the edges somewhat and isn't completely level with my 'old' skin.
I've got a better Camera now if you'd like me to take some 'better' photos of it for you to see more clearly?
I use the 'lightest' shade of foundations I can find as I have found they conceal scarring best. I don't use really heavy foundations because they just sort of get all gunked up in the scar.... just use light-to medium coverage foundations and I think you'll find they conceal best once you've found the perfect tone for your skin...
Hugs & comfort to you Hoxsey....
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Reply author: julypanda
Replied on: 05/12/2013 04:59:58
Message:
Oh my goodness Hoxsey. Good news that the operation went well, and you are finally seeing the start of a lovely new nose, but oh dear, the news on the left in gauze and the doctor's reaction is just terrible. I hope and pray that you get some relief soon, both physically and mentally. What you have been through, many people would have just broken down long ago, but you have just been an absolute soldier through the whole process.
BlondeAmbition - I understand where you are coming from. People tell my that my scar looks good, but to me it is quite obvious and I am self conscious about it. The only thing that keeps me going is that I am (hopefully) cancer free.... Surgery or alternative will always leave a scar.
To everyone out there - you are beautiful just the way you are, but even more so if you have fought off cancer and won. Look at your scar and say to yourself "I've done it - I have beaten cancer". Stand tall and stand proud. Look at Hoxsey, no-one could be braver than this beautiful young woman !!!!
Reply author: BlondeAmbition3
Replied on: 05/12/2013 12:23:23
Message:
quote:
Originally posted by julypanda
Oh my goodness Hoxsey. Good news that the operation went well, and you are finally seeing the start of a lovely new nose, but oh dear, the news on the left in gauze and the doctor's reaction is just terrible. I hope and pray that you get some relief soon, both physically and mentally. What you have been through, many people would have just broken down long ago, but you have just been an absolute soldier through the whole process.
BlondeAmbition - I understand where you are coming from. People tell my that my scar looks good, but to me it is quite obvious and I am self conscious about it. The only thing that keeps me going is that I am (hopefully) cancer free.... Surgery or alternative will always leave a scar.
To everyone out there - you are beautiful just the way you are, but even more so if you have fought off cancer and won. Look at your scar and say to yourself "I've done it - I have beaten cancer". Stand tall and stand proud. Look at Hoxsey, no-one could be braver than this beautiful young woman !!!!
You are so right on with everything you so eloquently articulated julypanda.... and yes, Hoxsey is among the bravest of the brave. I grieve with her for her losses and through her trials, past, present and upcoming, and hold her up in positive thoughts and prayers as she recovers.
Reply author: Hoxsey
Replied on: 05/12/2013 17:32:15
Message:
IT'S OUT! IT'S OUT! IT'S OUT!!! Hallelujah it's OUT! Thanks to my wonderful mother- she came over this morning and we were debating whether to go to the E.R. (More expensive unwanted bills...) or to wait another 24 hours and see an ear, nose throat doctor tomorrow. It had just begun to smell rotten as of last night and was VERY foul this morning, seemed time to take action... And I was pulling on it with tweezers for the umpteenth time, mom says three magic words... 'Wiggle your nose'. I had tried this before, but not for very long. So I wiggled my upper lip/nose for a while as I pulled, and lo and behold, it started to slip!!! It finally slid out, another 4 inches- You don't know how RELIEVED I am! NOW I can just relax and heal! NOW it's 'over'. Ten months after I applied the Black Salve, I can finally see the end to this chapter. I just had to let all of you know who have been following my story all this time. Whew! The relief...
Blonde Ambition- I just want to say how BEAUTIFUL I think you are! I am kicking myself now for 'thinking' of telling you that after the post where you posted your two pictures earlier on, because I hate to hear you now say that 'that's all you see' and that it bothers you so much! I just wish I had gone ahead and written that before you told me (the forum) this so you wouldn't just think I am saying it now to 'make you feel better' or something. The photo of you in the ball cap? Omg, Just gorgeous! And you are right...no one but yourself sees the scar. People told me all the time about how they barely saw/ noticed my nose bandage anymore because I had it DOWN, and it blended pretty darn well! Yet,as I sit here and say this, I have still covered my nose even after this last surgery, as I too am pretty self conscious of it, as it doesn't look like me, and its still not 'right'. I'm not used to it, and it IS still too big from swelling. Whatever, we all have troubles in life, and when I see photos of others who have it MUCH WORSE than me, I am grateful, and stop worrying about 'how I look'.
Dr. B told me not to keep forehead moist anymore, but I am going to anyway. From everything you can research, healing is best when kept moist, so thank you for the link, I will look those pads up after I finish writing! So far, Aquaphor has worked very well for me, but if something else is better, we all need to know what is out there for 'After black salve'!
Thank you, Blonde Ambition, for sharing your photos with myself and this forum! Hey, I too, live in Florida! (It's a looong state. We could live 400 miles apart!) Thank you for your kind words and moral support!
Julypanda- you are right, we are all beautiful... It's so hard to not judge ourselves from the outside, isn't it? Thank you for your support and sweet words too. This post has become a heap of information about b.s., and I hope it helps at least one person decide what is right for them, and if it weren't for you, blonde ambition, djt10, Anivoc, deb and more, it wouldn't have been anything! I'm surprised at how long this post has gone on! (As well as my doggone journey!)
I'm going on and on...let me reign myself in.
Ok, so I decided to use Black Salve after extensive research, mostly to avoid going the traditional medicine route of chop and stitch and to hopefully 'save money'. (we know THAT 'save money' fairy tale ending so did not happen!) I ended up forced to utilize surgery in the end, and thank god for it! I'm not sure what one can take from my story as far as helping them decide to use black salve... Yes, I would use it again for sure as I know it works. I just don't know what I would do if I have a cancer on my face again. The last time I tried it on small spots around my face, every spot reacted, and I immediately took it off, as I was TESTING, and no, this is not recommended to do to 'diagnose' or find cancers. But I tried it anyway, and my face seems to be a total hot spot. It doesn't react to any other area I have tried it on. Nope, I haven't tried it on my face ever since, and that was probably eight months ago or so.
Can you save money by going this route? In most cases, of course! My case? Obviously not. I still don't know what the totals are, but my blue cross blue shield is not paying JACK so far for my surgeons fees. They have only responded to one of his claims so far, for the remaining balance of the second surgery... Of which I already paid 40% of the TOTAL up front to my surgeon. (and this one was very cheap compared to the first one, which they are still 'reviewing'.) The remaining balance of the second surgery doctors' fee that was billed to my insurance was $3,108. How much did bcbs pay of that? A WHOPPING $261.89.
Not good.
I'm only telling about the financial woes because I NEVER thought I would need reconstructive surgery after using it. I didn't even imagine it, because I had not HEARD OF IT EVER HAPPENING BEFORE. Here's the 'it could happen' story, folks. Usually you don't need it. Just know You COULD. Had I gone to get MOHs surgery, maybe it would have been even worse. More expensive. Less time to research. More pressure to feel like I had no choice but to use whatever plastic surgeon my MOHs doctor recommended locally. Maybe my outcome would have been just fine. Maybe it would have been tons cheaper.
I will never know.
All I can give you, reader, is how my story turned out. Do your OWN research, do it thoroughly, and go with your gut. That's what I did.
I am going to post more photos after this. Maybe not tonight, I have yard work to do, and the sun is going down fast... As I write, I'm watching a bluebird check out a nest box, Listening to mockingbirds growl at prospective predators, and oh, um, our dog eating grass and well, now she's vomiting.... Kind of perfect, isn't it? It's never all candy and flowers!
Reply author: julypanda
Replied on: 05/13/2013 04:51:47
Message:
massive congratulations and massive hugs to you Hoxsey. I read your last entry, turned to my husband and said "this woman is absolutely amazing" and I truly mean it....
Reply author: BlondeAmbition3
Replied on: 05/13/2013 14:11:47
Message:
After this last post Hoxsey, I can't say anything.... all I can do is cry. As julypanda said "You are absolutely amazing" and I truly mean it also.
Reply author: Deb
Replied on: 05/14/2013 11:54:50
Message:
Hoxley - I celebrate along with you! Glib comments from the doctor must have felt like a kick in the teeth. That aside though, I'm glad that stinky gauze is out. Look forward to the future! x
Reply author: djt10
Replied on: 05/14/2013 12:52:37
Message:
Hoxey, I'm SO glad to hear the gauze came out. You did everything right, in documenting it. Calling the doctor and telling him, and videotaping it. If he is an ethical man, he noted the call in your file. If it hadn't come out, one more thing might have been necessary just as a backup in case the doctor DID NOT document it in your file, which would be to see another doctor in his office to have absolute proof in case it wasn't put in your file and if that doctor disputed the legitimacy of the video, such as claiming it was staged or faked, but happily it wasn't necessary ...unless there turns out to be any kind of infection or complication after the fact. My advice might have sounded extreme to others here, but the fact is I've been working on a legal case for a prison inmate falsely convicted and I have in hand medical records and proof that 3 different doctors involved with his case committed fraud--altered medical records, falsified reports, suppressed information and false statements to police by the main offender, all proven by comparing reports to actual medical records and tests that nobody bothered to study in detail. It happens, and when there's any potential medical liability involved, a victim must be pro-active in doing whatever is necessary to protect the truth.
Reply author: Hoxsey
Replied on: 05/16/2013 10:14:20
Message:
Well, I am trying to upload photos from my ipad, but they are to large. Any tips on reducing size?
Reply author: julypanda
Replied on: 05/20/2013 16:08:49
Message:
Hi Hoxsey,
Sorry no one has replied on how to shrink photos. Looking forward to seeing the end result. Hope you are going well and finally seeing a lovely nose to be proud of once again.
Take care, and hugs to you and your mum
Reply author: plainview
Replied on: 06/01/2013 10:06:26
Message:
To Hoxsey, about reducing image size on ipads. There is no obvious way to edit image size directly but you can reduce image size in a round about way that is simple. Simply email any image you wish to reduce in size to yourself at your normal email address. Don't immediately press SEND. First look towards the top of the email you are sending to yourself and you will see something like Images: 650KB or Images 2.5MB. Tap on this and a list of image sizes will show up across the top to choose from. They usually range from very small to the original image size. Choose the size that suits before pressing SEND. If you save each image you receive from yourself it will be the reduced size you chose when sending it. If you use these saved images you should have no trouble uploading them to the forum. Regards and best wishes.
Reply author: anivoc
Replied on: 06/01/2013 14:10:31
Message:
Hi Hoxsey,
Here's what I found recommended for Ipad's that's free
photopad here's a link to a review and description
http://the-ipad-site.com/photopad-ipad-app-review/
Reply author: Deb
Replied on: 06/14/2013 11:01:03
Message:
Thought people on here who have helped me might like to know, I am still treating my nose; it seems a little stubborn. I get lots of little white eschars off it.
also placed the salve on two small red, itchy spots on my lower legs and both had a reaction. My left leg was quite a big reaction; in fact, I felt like I had been shot in it at one point. It is now about to come out but I fear the plaster which is sticky with lots of gunk might rip it out.
I actually feel quite ill today and had to come home from work at midday. I took a first dose of Essiac tea last night. I am also using almond kernels, organic juicing and am trying to avoid toxins (no sugar). Is this a detox feeling? I just want to lie in bed and snooze.
Reply author: anivoc
Replied on: 06/14/2013 13:11:56
Message:
HI Deb,
Hard to say on the nausea but I know I felt "sick" when I treated multiple areas at one time...still trying "other things" trying to find that softer gentler approach so my jar of blood root paste is on the sidelines waiting to get called in.
I know if I do bring the bloodroot paste back into the game ..I will be applying it in small amounts to one tumor at a time...
Reply author: BlondeAmbition3
Replied on: 06/14/2013 13:38:48
Message:
quote:
Originally posted by Deb
Thought people on here who have helped me might like to know, I am still treating my nose; it seems a little stubborn. I get lots of little white eschars off it.
also placed the salve on two small red, itchy spots on my lower legs and both had a reaction. My left leg was quite a big reaction; in fact, I felt like I had been shot in it at one point. It is now about to come out but I fear the plaster which is sticky with lots of gunk might rip it out.
I actually feel quite ill today and had to come home from work at midday. I took a first dose of Essiac tea last night. I am also using almond kernels, organic juicing and am trying to avoid toxins (no sugar). Is this a detox feeling? I just want to lie in bed and snooze.
I believe you are experiencing some Herxheimer to the de-toxifying methods that you're using as you described. I have copied and pasted the definition of Herxheimer here: The Jarisch-Herxheimer reaction is a reaction to endotoxins released by the death of harmful organisms within the body. In holistic medicine, it is sometimes referred to as a healing crisis, as it may coincide with recovery from an infectious disease, or a course of detoxification.[1].... the desire to 'snooze' is also indicative of your body experiencing 'healing' crisis mode. Don't fight your body.... nap, snooze and pamper yourself right now. Continue the juicing but I do recommend some solid foods also and perhaps cut back on the Essiac until the nausea eases up a bit. Please be careful NOT to disturb those Eschars on your leg.... the 'roots' have to come out completely or you may have to re-treat with the bloodroot.... each time you re-treat you risk more severe scarring. If you disturb or damage Eschars with Cancer still active you risk not getting all of the Cancer. I hope this was helpful and I wish you the best through this healing crisis and on your path towards optimal wellness. Bless you!
Reply author: BlondeAmbition3
Replied on: 06/14/2013 13:43:17
Message:
quote:
Originally posted by anivoc
HI Deb,
Hard to say on the nausea but I know I felt "sick" when I treated multiple areas at one time...still trying "other things" trying to find that softer gentler approach so my jar of blood root paste is on the sidelines waiting to get called in.
I know if I do bring the bloodroot paste back into the game ..I will be applying it in small amounts to one tumor at a time...
Me too anivoc..... I treated several Cancers at one time and boy did I regret it... fortunately I had some pain meds or I don't believe I could have endured it. Even with the pain meds it was a bumpy ride... at times I felt like somebody was driving a jackhammer into my right temple. (I had to treat a many rooted tumor there 13 times before I felt I'd gotten it all). Yes, it's wise to treat only a single tumor or 'bad skin' area at a time... and have pain meds available... just in case.
Reply author: djt10
Replied on: 06/14/2013 15:06:51
Message:
My husband did a treatment on a general site (groin), 4 times in fact, over a period of time. The third time triggered a major detox through the bowels, and he was so sick he couldn't even keep down water at first so we drove 200 miles to our naturopath just to have that verified. Bloodroot has blood purification qualities as well as being specific to abnormal cells. But then Essiac is also for detoxing. Any time you detox, get ready for some degree of misery. The last time I detoxed, it was achieved with a 4-day water fast and when the toxins exited the tissues into the bloodstream, it was like the worst flu ever, particularly with muscle pains but it only lasted for the day. The only worst thing I went through was when I went into treatment with the naturopath. His "big guns" for treatment was Constitutional Hydrotherapy which stimulates the blood circulation and jump-starts the immune system. At that time, detox lasted for 2 weeks and it was horrendous, but then I was dealing with stomach cancer, arthritis, chronic bronchitis, ovarian cysts, low thyroid, anemia and a heart murmur. At the end of the 2 weeks I was recovered and remained well for 20 years. I've also had systemic reactions during a salve treatment. If it's involved with detoxing, it's a necessary evil...and it passes.
Reply author: inkylu
Replied on: 06/17/2013 14:43:52
Message:
Hi Hoxsey,
I am new to this forum, but started my foray into bs use in August of last year. I researched for months before trying it. I am SO HAPPY to hear that you have made it through to the other side of this ordeal! Having dealt with the medical profession and medical bills for many years, I would recommend that you get an ITEMIZATION of ALL CHARGES. Pore over every one. Without fail, every time we have done this we have found hundreds of dollars of bogus charges. The last time it happened, my husband had to go to the ER on Thankgiving day for a tetanus shot...850.00. After requesting itemization, we saw that they had charged us three times for the same shot, among many other false charges.
As to the bs, I used it on my nose on a small freckle that itched and bled sometimes. I used a tiny amount, and it became a humongous eschar, with severe pain shooting to the top of my head. Eventually it came out and I was concerned it went down into the cartilage, but it did fill in. I had to treat it twice. I probably should do it again just to be absolutely sure, but I have many places that are in need of treatment. There were 5 sores that would not heal on my forearm that I also started treating last August, and I have lost track of how many treatments I have done on them (at least 15). Two finally healed all the way, but 3 of them still aren't finished. I can now tell when the site is clean. I have lost a lot of muscle tissue from all this. I had visited 4 dermatologists over the course of 10 years about sores on my arms that wouldn't heal, and all I was ever told was that I have keratosis pilaris, and to stop picking at them and they would heal. Now I am convinced that it is some form of cancer. I do not intend on stopping with the black salve until they are gone, and I am disgusted with dermatologists for not suggesting a biopsy when I specifically went for these open sores!
Anyway, THANK YOU for posting your story and your pics. I think you are beautiful and brave. And your story has encouraged me and further educated me and I am truly grateful... I wish you all the best and I hope you will post a pic once your ordeal is completely finished.
Tammy
Reply author: Hoxsey
Replied on: 06/23/2013 12:01:35
Message:
Hey all,
Deb, I hope the nose is healing up and getting better! I can't answer any of your questions, but I would agree with blonde ambition and others, it being a herxheimer reaction.
Thank you for the image reducing help! I am feeling lazy on this rainy Sunday and don't feel like posting stuff right now, but I will update about my healing- it has really started to shrink up noticeably over the last week or so, and is becoming less and less noticeable! I still wear a small strip of skin colored tape over the most recent suture line, but I feel like I'll be tape free within a month or so...
Inkylu, thank you for your kind post, I am still in the process of waiting for my HR insurance lady to deal with my insurance company to find out why they considered most of my surgery as a 'non-covered' type of procedure, as if it was not necessary, and to hopefully get them to pay for a reasonable portion of it. As of right now, they only covered about $1,500 out of The billed $30,000 surgeons fee. Ridiculous. Once that is all done with, I will ask for itemization of charges. Thank you or your helpful information!
Reply author: BlondeAmbition3
Replied on: 06/23/2013 21:44:11
Message:
quote:
Originally posted by Hoxsey
Hey all,
Deb, I hope the nose is healing up and getting better! I can't answer any of your questions, but I would agree with blonde ambition and others, it being a herxheimer reaction.
Thank you for the image reducing help! I am feeling lazy on this rainy Sunday and don't feel like posting stuff right now, but I will update about my healing- it has really started to shrink up noticeably over the last week or so, and is becoming less and less noticeable! I still wear a small strip of skin colored tape over the most recent suture line, but I feel like I'll be tape free within a month or so...
Inkylu, thank you for your kind post, I am still in the process of waiting for my HR insurance lady to deal with my insurance company to find out why they considered most of my surgery as a 'non-covered' type of procedure, as if it was not necessary, and to hopefully get them to pay for a reasonable portion of it. As of right now, they only covered about $1,500 out of The billed $30,000 surgeons fee. Ridiculous. Once that is all done with, I will ask for itemization of charges. Thank you or your helpful information!
So great to see a post from you Hoxsey... you're continually in my thoughts and prayers. Continue to heal, we're here for you.
Reply author: julypanda
Replied on: 06/24/2013 02:50:33
Message:
I am with you Blondeambition - happy to hear all is going well, and we are definitely there for you Hoxsey.
Reply author: inkylu
Replied on: 06/25/2013 08:29:33
Message:
You are quite welcome, Hoxsey! And as for the amount of money they end up charging you, the Patient Accounts office will try to get you to pay it all by putting it on a credit card, or try to get you to agree to monstrous payments so as to get it paid in a year or so, but you can pay as little as $10 a month and they can't do anything about it. I always have told them that is what I can pay, and then when I am able to I pay more one it to get rid of the bill. The purpose of keeping the payment low is not to shortchange them, but so that we aren't stretched beyond our limit. My husband is a contractor who up until May was uninsured. We have handled many hospital bills this way. You can also ask for financial help from the hospital. They make you jump through ridiculous hoops, but many times the savings are totally worth it.
I apologize for this being off topic, but in a convoluted way, I feel it is KIND of connected. Any time we self treat, we run the risk of having to go to an ER for pain management or backup, and I feel its important to have this vital information.
I wish all of you the very best with using the BS. I'm in between applications right now, and dreading the next one, because the last time I did it the pain was dreadful...hang in there everybody!
Reply author: anivoc
Replied on: 06/25/2013 11:30:42
Message:
Thanks for the info Inkylu
The $10 a month advice is great...
I repeat that it is always better negotiating what you are going to be responsible for paying prior to services rendered, than after the fact.
It was @ 15 years ago but we were able to get our orthopedic surgeon and the hospital to accept what Blue Cross would pay as payment in full..This simple request saved us 10's of thousands of dollars...
The medical world is out of touch with reality. The vicious circle of Doctors getting sued by lawyers,resulting in outrageous settlements and then the insurance companies that had to pay those settlements raising the Doctors malpractice insurance, which in the end we the patients pay the price for...crazy vicious circle spiraling out of control.
Reply author: Kitty
Replied on: 07/18/2013 16:09:02
Message:
Hi all! I have read all your black salve experience and would like to ask a question. I don't have melanoma but maybe someone out there can give me ideas what to do next. I have invasive and in situ ductal carcinoma and they were small one is 2 cm, the other is 1.5 cm but after the biopsy it grew very fast. I have tried bs on the biggest one which is then around 4 cm. I applied bs last October 2012. It is now July, 2013 and my breast has not healed yet. It is open and sometimes still bleeds. I do not know what to do...I am panicking and just want to have the doctor chopped it off. The main reason why we did not go for the conventional treatment is that I have other health concerns. My naturopath said that it will not be good to go for the conventional treatment at that time because my system is very weak. I am trying all these and it frustrates us because alternative therapies are not cheap. I am fighting this disease for two years and there is no light at the end of this dark tunnel. I look at my daughter and just want to cry all day. I am stuck..I want to continue to apply the black salve on the other site but not sure if this one will also be an open wound for a long time...
Reply author: anivoc
Replied on: 07/18/2013 19:33:51
Message:
Hi Kitty,
You mentioned these were small lesions...but a 1 cm lesion is @ 3/4" ( not so small) were you meaning millimeter not centimeters?
I know ductal is a more serious breast cancer. My mom had it in her 80 and and that age it was a no brainer for her to have her breast removed.
You mentioned Black Salve but did not mention a name..
There are many brands out there and not all have bloodroot and zinc chloride ( the two most important ingredients IMO.
Though I have heard bloodroot paste used for many different cancers including breast cancers, generally when I hear about breast cancer it is used internally..
You definitely have to do your own due diligence and make your best decision..
Not tooting their horn but Cansema seems to get a lot of positive feedback here...and I know they have an internal version..
Sending out good thoughts and prayers that you find your way out of this challenge you are dealing with.
All the best!
Tom
Reply author: Horrux
Replied on: 07/23/2013 22:53:26
Message:
OK so I have been using Black salve to successfully cure my skin cancer. 3 of my most prominent cancerous lesions fell out exactly 2 weeks after initial application. Here is my youtube playlist: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLd5ZAHbQyq3OyZY7Jt-OAQmjTiSHGjyJi
After the success of the initial application, and the fairly low pain experienced, I decided to move ahead with a more ambitious plan. This time, I am covering an area between 3 and 4 times the size of a quarter. Also, I am targeting cancer which is deeper than the first time around.
And this time, boy, am I ever in pain. In my initial round, I would rate my pain about a 3 on a scale of 1 to 10, with occasional spikes to 4. During the second round, I have experienced days on end with a solid 8, with some rare spikes to a 9, where moaning and writhing from it becomes unavoidable. I had some codeine, and I ran through it quickly. I went to my doc for more, and luckily he was willing to comply, with the caveat that regulations prevented him from prescribing any more painkillers.
Now though, my cancer is halfway out, not detached all around, so clearly there is still work that needs doing, and I just took my last 3 codeine pills. I have been supplementing them with Advil and Aspirin, but I fear my liver cannot take too much more of that, and certainly not enough to treat this degree of pain.
Are there any tips as to how to be rid of this pain?
If it matters, I am located near Montreal, in Eastern Canada.
Thanks
Reply author: julypanda
Replied on: 07/24/2013 05:51:03
Message:
Good old panadol every four hours wont get rid of the pain, but it will help, and icing the area around the eschar worked for me also., but to be honest once the eschar is fully detached, the pain does reduce considerably.
Good Luck
Reply author: Horrux
Replied on: 07/24/2013 15:03:36
Message:
Acetaminophen is not to be used by people with liver disease, which is my case. It is particularly harsh.
Reply author: aozr30
Replied on: 07/27/2013 08:52:30
Message:
Kitty,
See your oncologist immediately. In situ carcinoma is still low grade and can be surgically removed with relative ease. Your oncologist will know what your best treatment option is. Don't trust your health and your future with your daughter to strangers on the internet out to peddle their own wares.
Reply author: muderousegg
Replied on: 07/27/2013 15:38:27
Message:
http://www.reddit.com/r/MorbidReality/comments/1j3guo/girl_uses_black_salve_on_face_and_the_outcome_is/
you are in this post, you guys are insane. totally insane and delusional and dangerous.
Reply author: Crazyashelllol
Replied on: 07/27/2013 16:32:33
Message:
Wow, you people on this board are ****ing INSANE.
Way to ruin someone's life by giving TERRIBLE advice. Morons. You aren't medical professionals, so stop acting like them.
Reply author: RUKiddingMe
Replied on: 07/27/2013 23:30:38
Message:
You people on this thread, this forum...I am just speechless. How on earth could you condone putting this stuff on your face?! Or drinking some version of the **** that BURNED OFF YOUR NOSE OP!?!?!!!!! I can't believe how casual you all seem to be while her nose turns black and falls off. All the people who are going to go out and buy this crap and use it are morons. I hope to god you're not using his **** on your kids.
Get medical advice and support from a doctor, not these people. SMDH
Reply author: RUKiddingMe
Replied on: 07/28/2013 00:10:22
Message:
quote:
Originally posted by anivoc
Hi Kitty,
You mentioned these were small lesions...but a 1 cm lesion is @ 3/4" ( not so small) were you meaning millimeter not centimeters?
I know ductal is a more serious breast cancer. My mom had it in her 80 and and that age it was a no brainer for her to have her breast removed.
You mentioned Black Salve but did not mention a name..
There are many brands out there and not all have bloodroot and zinc chloride ( the two most important ingredients IMO.
Though I have heard bloodroot paste used for many different cancers including breast cancers, generally when I hear about breast cancer it is used internally..
You definitely have to do your own due diligence and make your best decision..
Not tooting their horn but Cansema seems to get a lot of positive feedback here...and I know they have an internal version..
Sending out good thoughts and prayers that you find your way out of this challenge you are dealing with.
All the best!
Tom
You mean that stuff that burned off the OP's nose?
Reply author: julypanda
Replied on: 07/28/2013 01:04:34
Message:
How dare you people say what you have about Hoxsey and her decision to use alternative treatment. Have you ever wondered to yourself why she chose alternative rather than conventional? Before you bag out other people and their choices, make sure you have ALL the information.
Do you not think that chemotherapy is just as deadly and debilitating as the black salve treatment. I don't see too many forums/photos of the side effects of chemo.
Freedom of speech - isn't that what we are allowed to have. Sure, you can disagree with what is posted on here, but to take personal swipes at such vulnerable people is just low and uncalled for.
I myself chose alternative therapy for my skin cancer - why?? Because as the doctor was taking a biopsy, he was already trying to line his pockets suggesting thousands of dollars of treatment for my large pores and red skin, which had absolutely nothing to do with the skin cancer.
So in conclusion, sure, have your say, but don't get personal. I was just disgusted reading YOUR forum. Was it helpful in anyway - absolutely NOT !!!
Reply author: anivoc
Replied on: 07/28/2013 07:05:46
Message:
Hey Julypanda....Clearly RUKidding me is much wiser and better informed than the rest of here....or not so much..
You mentioned freedom of speech and to that effect RUK has a right to spout off as long as he/she doesn't cross the line...
He/She is pushing it but with mass assumptions and conclusions based upon them...
Ignorance is bliss.....Dr. Mohs who set the gold standard in skin cancer surgery used bloodroot paste so it must be truly INSANE to use..
Too many real people sharing here including myself have used bloodroot paste, petty spurge and a litany of other alternative approaches with equal to or better results than traditional medical approaches.
In regards to Kitty..
ductal breast cancer is serious as noted... If it was my wife I'd probaby encourage going the surgical route only because it is so serious and we don't have any data or experience on someone who beat it with bloodroot or other alternative approach...
I suggested do your own due diligence but for my loved ones that is the route I would recommend...
Reply author: GentlerApproach
Replied on: 07/28/2013 10:10:13
Message:
quote:
Originally posted by julypanda
How dare you people say what you have about Hoxsey and her decision to use alternative treatment. Have you ever wondered to yourself why she chose alternative rather than conventional? Before you bag out other people and their choices, make sure you have ALL the information.
Do you not think that chemotherapy is just as deadly and debilitating as the black salve treatment. I don't see too many forums/photos of the side effects of chemo.
Freedom of speech - isn't that what we are allowed to have. Sure, you can disagree with what is posted on here, but to take personal swipes at such vulnerable people is just low and uncalled for.
I myself chose alternative therapy for my skin cancer - why?? Because as the doctor was taking a biopsy, he was already trying to line his pockets suggesting thousands of dollars of treatment for my large pores and red skin, which had absolutely nothing to do with the skin cancer.
So in conclusion, sure, have your say, but don't get personal. I was just disgusted reading YOUR forum. Was it helpful in anyway - absolutely NOT !!!
Look, I hope you read this message because it comes from a place of good intention.
The information that is being given in this thread is dangerous and harmful.
I know that your gut reaction to that statement is to counter with the idea that chemotherapy and other medical procedures can be dangerous and harmful but that doesn't really apply to this situation. The woman in this thread, the woman who lost a large portion of her nose, would not have needed chemotherapy or any highly invasive procedures. She could have had her BCC removed in a short, out-patient procedure which would have done less damage than the salve she used. FAR less damage.
This is a fact you cannot dispute. The scar on her upper lip shows that she had such a procedure before and it's clear to anyone that the "damage" done there is dramatically less than what the salve did to her. In fact, her surgery scar is so minimal that she had to provide a close-up of it for anyone to even notice it.
If cost is the concern here, and you mention that in your post, then I'm not sure what to say to that since I can't speak from experience. I live in a country where medical costs are paid for by the government (as they should be, in my opinion). I understand that some people may not have this luxury and it's tough to afford insurance or procedures — but I have to wonder if Hoxsey's re-constructive surgery and numerous doctor visits (ultimately required because of the salve) cost more than a simple BCC removal at her dermatologist's office.
I'm betting it cost far more.
This forum's suggestion that Hoxsey should use this salve, and then encouraging her to continue with further treatments, as well as ingestion of chemically dangerous substances, then supporting her while she fasts at a time when her body is in crisis, is quite shocking for outsiders to read. Not simply because you're suggesting the use of what you call "alternative medicine" but because you're providing advice beyond that brand of "healing" that goes against established scientific fact and, I have to say, common sense.
Your intentions may be good but advice on this forum is dangerous.
Look at this poor woman's face! How many more cases of this do you need to see before you all accept that fact that this sort of treatment is not the best way to deal with these types of medical conditions - or any condition for that matter. The substance your are promoting is labelled as a dangerous material and medical boards and the FDA advise against it's use (I imagine you will rebut with a rant about the FDA being some horrible entity). Or how about the fact that the person Hoxsey was in contact with, and who advised her to ingest the salve is a convicted felon who served time in jail for the weapons possession, counterfeiting, and defrauding customers and a violation of federal health laws with the sale of items that severely and permanently disfigured other people.
That's not someone she should be getting medical advice from, don't you think?
I'm sure you think I'm just some arrogant jerk who doesn't get what this forum is all about, and that's not the case at all. I know you're trying to help. I'm only here to implore you to look at what information you're all providing and ask yourselves if it's really effective and safe.
My answer would be that it isn't.
This thread is full of contradictory information and hypocritical beliefs where "western medicine and alternative medicine" are concerned. I think you should all re-evaluate your use of these products - or at the very least your espousal of their use. You may have the right to use them yourself; but you certainly don't have enough knowledge or understanding of their side-effects, or medicine in general to be giving advice to others for how or when they should be used.
To any person who is reading this, as a curious onlooker or someone considering these "treatments"...
PLEASE DO NOT DO THIS, DO NOT USE THESE SALVES. THEY ARE NOT SAFE. THEY ARE NOT HEALTHY. LOOK AT THE PICTURES HERE. LOOK AT PICTURES ELSEWHERE ON THE NET. THE DAMAGE THAT CAN OCCUR IS SEVERE AND PERMANENT.
Reply author: RUKiddingMe
Replied on: 07/28/2013 10:23:48
Message:
quote:
Originally posted by anivoc
Hey Julypanda....Clearly RUKidding me is much wiser and better informed than the rest of here....or not so much..
You mentioned freedom of speech and to that effect RUK has a right to spout off as long as he/she doesn't cross the line...
He/She is pushing it but with mass assumptions and conclusions based upon them...
Ignorance is bliss.....Dr. Mohs who set the gold standard in skin cancer surgery used bloodroot paste so it must be truly INSANE to use..
Too many real people sharing here including myself have used bloodroot paste, petty spurge and a litany of other alternative approaches with equal to or better results than traditional medical approaches.
In regards to Kitty..
ductal breast cancer is serious as noted... If it was my wife I'd probaby encourage going the surgical route only because it is so serious and we don't have any data or experience on someone who beat it with bloodroot or other alternative approach...
I suggested do your own due diligence but for my loved ones that is the route I would recommend...
You're right! I go to the doctor when I need medical advice or medical procedures. I would also never put **** on my face that would burn off my nose.
You should read all the comments in the Reddit link a few posts up from my original post.
Reply author: RUKiddingMe
Replied on: 07/28/2013 10:36:28
Message:
quote:
Originally posted by GentlerApproachquote:
Originally posted by julypanda
How dare you people say what you have about Hoxsey and her decision to use alternative treatment. Have you ever wondered to yourself why she chose alternative rather than conventional? Before you bag out other people and their choices, make sure you have ALL the information.
Do you not think that chemotherapy is just as deadly and debilitating as the black salve treatment. I don't see too many forums/photos of the side effects of chemo.
Freedom of speech - isn't that what we are allowed to have. Sure, you can disagree with what is posted on here, but to take personal swipes at such vulnerable people is just low and uncalled for.
I myself chose alternative therapy for my skin cancer - why?? Because as the doctor was taking a biopsy, he was already trying to line his pockets suggesting thousands of dollars of treatment for my large pores and red skin, which had absolutely nothing to do with the skin cancer.
So in conclusion, sure, have your say, but don't get personal. I was just disgusted reading YOUR forum. Was it helpful in anyway - absolutely NOT !!!
Look, I hope you read this message because it comes from a place of good intention.
The information that is being given in this thread is dangerous and harmful.
I know that your gut reaction to that statement is to counter with the idea that chemotherapy and other medical procedures can be dangerous and harmful but that doesn't really apply to this situation. The woman in this thread, the woman who lost a large portion of her nose, would not have needed chemotherapy or any highly invasive procedures. She could have had her BCC removed in a short, out-patient procedure which would have done less damage than the salve she used. FAR less damage.
This is a fact you cannot dispute. The scar on her upper lip shows that she had such a procedure before and it's clear to anyone that the "damage" done there is dramatically less than what the salve did to her. In fact, her surgery scar is so minimal that she had to provide a close-up of it for anyone to even notice it.
If cost is the concern here, and you mention that in your post, then I'm not sure what to say to that since I can't speak from experience. I live in a country where medical costs are paid for by the government (as they should be, in my opinion). I understand that some people may not have this luxury and it's tough to afford insurance or procedures — but I have to wonder if Hoxsey's re-constructive surgery and numerous doctor visits (ultimately required because of the salve) cost more than a simple BCC removal at her dermatologist's office.
I'm betting it cost far more.
This forum's suggestion that Hoxsey should use this salve, and then encouraging her to continue with further treatments, as well as ingestion of chemically dangerous substances, then supporting her while she fasts at a time when her body is in crisis, is quite shocking for outsiders to read. Not simply because you're suggesting the use of what you call "alternative medicine" but because you're providing advice beyond that brand of "healing" that goes against established scientific fact and, I have to say, common sense.
Your intentions may be good but advice on this forum is dangerous.
Look at this poor woman's face! How many more cases of this do you need to see before you all accept that fact that this sort of treatment is not the best way to deal with these types of medical conditions - or any condition for that matter. The substance your are promoting is labelled as a dangerous material and medical boards and the FDA advise against it's use (I imagine you will rebut with a rant about the FDA being some horrible entity). Or how about the fact that the person Hoxsey was in contact with, and who advised her to ingest the salve is a convicted felon who served time in jail for the weapons possession, counterfeiting, and defrauding customers and a violation of federal health laws with the sale of items that severely and permanently disfigured other people.
That's not someone she should be getting medical advice from, don't you think?
I'm sure you think I'm just some arrogant jerk who doesn't get what this forum is all about, and that's not the case at all. I know you're trying to help. I'm only here to implore you to look at what information you're all providing and ask yourselves if it's really effective and safe.
My answer would be that it isn't.
This thread is full of contradictory information and hypocritical beliefs where "western medicine and alternative medicine" are concerned. I think you should all re-evaluate your use of these products - or at the very least your espousal of their use. You may have the right to use them yourself; but you certainly don't have enough knowledge or understanding of their side-effects, or medicine in general to be giving advice to others for how or when they should be used.
To any person who is reading this, as a curious onlooker or someone considering these "treatments"...
PLEASE DO NOT DO THIS, DO NOT USE THESE SALVES. THEY ARE NOT SAFE. THEY ARE NOT HEALTHY. LOOK AT THE PICTURES HERE. LOOK AT PICTURES ELSEWHERE ON THE NET. THE DAMAGE THAT CAN OCCUR IS SEVERE AND PERMANENT.
I hope people coming here considering using Black Salve will reconsider.
Still not convinced? Take another look at the pictures.
Reply author: BlondeAmbition3
Replied on: 07/28/2013 10:58:59
Message:
quote:
Originally posted by RUKiddingMequote:
Originally posted by GentlerApproachquote:
Originally posted by julypanda
How dare you people say what you have about Hoxsey and her decision to use alternative treatment. Have you ever wondered to yourself why she chose alternative rather than conventional? Before you bag out other people and their choices, make sure you have ALL the information.
Do you not think that chemotherapy is just as deadly and debilitating as the black salve treatment. I don't see too many forums/photos of the side effects of chemo.
Freedom of speech - isn't that what we are allowed to have. Sure, you can disagree with what is posted on here, but to take personal swipes at such vulnerable people is just low and uncalled for.
I myself chose alternative therapy for my skin cancer - why?? Because as the doctor was taking a biopsy, he was already trying to line his pockets suggesting thousands of dollars of treatment for my large pores and red skin, which had absolutely nothing to do with the skin cancer.
So in conclusion, sure, have your say, but don't get personal. I was just disgusted reading YOUR forum. Was it helpful in anyway - absolutely NOT !!!
Look, I hope you read this message because it comes from a place of good intention.
The information that is being given in this thread is dangerous and harmful.
I know that your gut reaction to that statement is to counter with the idea that chemotherapy and other medical procedures can be dangerous and harmful but that doesn't really apply to this situation. The woman in this thread, the woman who lost a large portion of her nose, would not have needed chemotherapy or any highly invasive procedures. She could have had her BCC removed in a short, out-patient procedure which would have done less damage than the salve she used. FAR less damage.
This is a fact you cannot dispute. The scar on her upper lip shows that she had such a procedure before and it's clear to anyone that the "damage" done there is dramatically less than what the salve did to her. In fact, her surgery scar is so minimal that she had to provide a close-up of it for anyone to even notice it.
If cost is the concern here, and you mention that in your post, then I'm not sure what to say to that since I can't speak from experience. I live in a country where medical costs are paid for by the government (as they should be, in my opinion). I understand that some people may not have this luxury and it's tough to afford insurance or procedures — but I have to wonder if Hoxsey's re-constructive surgery and numerous doctor visits (ultimately required because of the salve) cost more than a simple BCC removal at her dermatologist's office.
I'm betting it cost far more.
This forum's suggestion that Hoxsey should use this salve, and then encouraging her to continue with further treatments, as well as ingestion of chemically dangerous substances, then supporting her while she fasts at a time when her body is in crisis, is quite shocking for outsiders to read. Not simply because you're suggesting the use of what you call "alternative medicine" but because you're providing advice beyond that brand of "healing" that goes against established scientific fact and, I have to say, common sense.
Your intentions may be good but advice on this forum is dangerous.
Look at this poor woman's face! How many more cases of this do you need to see before you all accept that fact that this sort of treatment is not the best way to deal with these types of medical conditions - or any condition for that matter. The substance your are promoting is labelled as a dangerous material and medical boards and the FDA advise against it's use (I imagine you will rebut with a rant about the FDA being some horrible entity). Or how about the fact that the person Hoxsey was in contact with, and who advised her to ingest the salve is a convicted felon who served time in jail for the weapons possession, counterfeiting, and defrauding customers and a violation of federal health laws with the sale of items that severely and permanently disfigured other people.
That's not someone she should be getting medical advice from, don't you think?
I'm sure you think I'm just some arrogant jerk who doesn't get what this forum is all about, and that's not the case at all. I know you're trying to help. I'm only here to implore you to look at what information you're all providing and ask yourselves if it's really effective and safe.
My answer would be that it isn't.
This thread is full of contradictory information and hypocritical beliefs where "western medicine and alternative medicine" are concerned. I think you should all re-evaluate your use of these products - or at the very least your espousal of their use. You may have the right to use them yourself; but you certainly don't have enough knowledge or understanding of their side-effects, or medicine in general to be giving advice to others for how or when they should be used.
To any person who is reading this, as a curious onlooker or someone considering these "treatments"...
PLEASE DO NOT DO THIS, DO NOT USE THESE SALVES. THEY ARE NOT SAFE. THEY ARE NOT HEALTHY. LOOK AT THE PICTURES HERE. LOOK AT PICTURES ELSEWHERE ON THE NET. THE DAMAGE THAT CAN OCCUR IS SEVERE AND PERMANENT.
I hope people coming here considering using Black Salve will reconsider.
Still not convinced? Take another look at the pictures.
This Forum isn't for everyone. Bloodroot isn't for everyone. It's for those of us who have NO OTHER HOPE and/or options. It does no harm when used correctly and unlike the current "Medical Model' it allows the body to heal naturally. I recommend that all YOU PEOPLE in opposition of Bloodroot do what you feel you need to do and WE (alternative People) will do what we need to do..... continue to help others who decide to go against the medical Model and use natural Products to help rid our bodies of Cancer and other diseases. No matter how hard we try, sometimes the CANCER is just going to have already invaded and destroyed so much tissue that regardless of the Modality used, disfigurement and or irrevocable damage is bound to happen. We're not invading and disrupting your Forums, so do us the courtesy of not invading and disrupting ours. I'm alive because of Bloodroot... and I will never allow people like you to prevent me from sharing that fact, that truth, that Salvation with others.
Reply author: shazbot
Replied on: 07/28/2013 11:05:53
Message:
Congratulations to RUKiddingMe for posting the first sane message on the TopicalInfo boards. And what do you win....gobs of scorn and derision. You are pissing into the wind RUK. The people that populate forums of this nature all have two things in common. They are megalomaniacs possessing a never ending supply of condescension. I say to all who arrive at this board, and ones like it, looking for advice on treating skin cancer with corrosive salves. Take the renowned Dr. Bonder and Dr. Anivoc's advice. That way we can spot the insane among us by their highly disfigured faces.
Reply author: Chill
Replied on: 07/28/2013 11:45:13
Message:
Hi. As a frequenter of Reddit I'd like to apologise for the tone of recent messages from other Reddit users. We're a mixed bunch, and some are young kids who don't really know how to interact with people at all. I mean, at all. Utterly useless, so the end up shouting at everything. People. Coffee cups.
But the nice thing about Reddit is theirs always corrective voices, like GentlerApproach, right there among the noise to balance things out.
Mainly, we believe rational thinking protects a person from harm. It allows you to weigh options without being blinded by fear, suspicion and anxiety. It allows you to choose the mainstream option when it makes the most sense to your health, and avoid unnecessary procedures in cases when a doctor is clearly trying to dupe you. It's protection against harm.
Don't be too proud to admit errors. It's not stupidity that prevents rational thought.
Reply author: Chill
Replied on: 07/28/2013 11:56:29
Message:
The discussion here might interest you guys:
http://www.reddit.com/r/rage/comments/1ixezh/was_googling_for_med_school_application_yep_that/cb9fsb4?context=1
Reply author: GentlerApproach
Replied on: 07/28/2013 12:51:48
Message:
quote:
Originally posted by julypanda
This Forum isn't for everyone. Bloodroot isn't for everyone. It's for those of us who have NO OTHER HOPE and/or options. It does no harm when used correctly and unlike the current "Medical Model' it allows the body to heal naturally. I recommend that all YOU PEOPLE in opposition of Bloodroot do what you feel you need to do and WE (alternative People) will do what we need to do..... continue to help others who decide to go against the medical Model and use natural Products to help rid our bodies of Cancer and other diseases. No matter how hard we try, sometimes the CANCER is just going to have already invaded and destroyed so much tissue that regardless of the Modality used, disfigurement and or irrevocable damage is bound to happen. We're not invading and disrupting your Forums, so do us the courtesy of not invading and disrupting ours. I'm alive because of Bloodroot... and I will never allow people like you to prevent me from sharing that fact, that truth, that Salvation with others.
Look, I have to address some of your points here because they illustrate why us newcomers are so concerned. Stay with me here and listen to what I have to say, I'll lay this out clearly and concisely:
quote:
Bloodroot isn't for everyone. It's for those of us who have NO OTHER HOPE and/or options.
Hoxsey had other options. She said she had a BCC removed prior and it left minimal scarring. She could have had the BCC on her nose and forehead removed the same way. She chose not to, you all encouraged that choice. She DID have a choice.
quote:
It does no harm when used correctly
If it does no harm when used correctly, are you suggesting that Hoxsey used this incorrectly? Everyone on this forum cheered her on and kept reassuring her that what she did was right, that her body was healing and the salve was hunting down the cancer and removing it. So which is it? Was she using it right and it just scarred her and forced her into multiple, expensive surgeries, or was she using it incorrectly while Bonder et al were telling her she was doing the right thing?
quote:
It does no harm when used correctly and unlike the current "Medical Model' it allows the body to heal naturally.
So, when she was forced into taking Vicodin for the pain, and then had to have surgery to remove cancer that the salve missed, then had to have plastic surgery to have her nose and forehead reconstructed - that's what you call "allowing the body to heal naturally?" It would seem to me that your jab at the "current Medical Model" is unwarranted since the "current Medical Model" was ultimately the model that eased her pain and repaired the damage done by the current "Alternative Model" that this forum pushes.
quote:
I recommend that all YOU PEOPLE in opposition of Bloodroot do what you feel you need to do and WE (alternative People) will do what we need to do..... continue to help others who decide to go against the medical Model and use natural Products to help rid our bodies of Cancer and other diseases.
The problem that those of us in "opposition" to the use of these salves have, is that there are forums like this that provide reams and reams of harmful advice to people who are frightened, desperate, ignorant, or unaware of safer, more effective medical treatments. If you try to contest this point, I will happily go through posts on page one that are medically erroneous and offer nothing but misinformation and bad advice. In fact, the only good advice I think I saw on the first page of this thread was that Hoxsey go to see a doctor. Hindsight is 20/20, I suppose.
The substances you all seem to think are specifically targeting cancer are doing no such thing. It's a shotgun approach that causes catastrophic tissue damage and cell death to both healthy and cancerous cells. Again, the before and after photos say everything that needs to be said in this regard. A surgical procedure would have been a far safer, less expensive, and far less damaging alternative.
quote:
No matter how hard we try, sometimes the CANCER is just going to have already invaded and destroyed so much tissue that regardless of the Modality used, disfigurement and or irrevocable damage is bound to happen.
As I mentioned above, this post further illustrates the complete and utter lack of understanding of how these products work. The damage done to Hoxsey's face, and anyone else who had been disfigured by these products is not cause by cancer or the salve's imagined aggressive pursuit of cancer. The damage is done by the product itself. Read that again: The products you are using are destroying your tissues whether cancer is present or not. The damage done is not linked to the amount of cancer present, it's linked to the use and abuse of the salve itself.
quote:
We're not invading and disrupting your Forums, so do us the courtesy of not invading and disrupting ours.
People are here "disrupting" your forum because news of this poor woman's suffering got out and spread around the net. Of all the people who have seen this story, a tiny handful have come here out of concern, sadness, and even anger. Your forum is a tiny, tiny minority who feels these practices are safe, effective, and "natural." The reason your tiny minority is feeling the heat right now is because the overwhelming majority of people learning about this story find it abhorrent, disheartening, and dangerous.
I imagine that view may reinforce your community's belief that you're all onto something esoteric and that nobody else will understand it because we've all been brainwashed by the System, or something of the sort. I certainly hope that's not the case because quite frankly, it would be an absurd notion to harbour. People freak out when they hear and see this story because it's indicative of unhealthy modes of thought and unsafe practices, period.
quote:
I'm alive because of Bloodroot... and I will never allow people like you to prevent me from sharing that fact, that truth, that Salvation with others.
This is the most disturbing thing you've said thus far. I'm sure you think you're alive because of bloodroot but you could have been saved by a doctor's expertise just as easily, and probably far less traumatically.
This isn't about your experience, this is about Hoxsey and all the terrible misinformation and advice the poor woman has been given by people who don't understand the chemicals they're dealing with. YOU, specifically YOU, julypanda, may have the right to share your story; but you most certainly don't have the expertise or medical knowledge to offer advice on the application of a substance that literally ate away healthy tissue and disfigured another human being. You don't have the expertise to advise on the recovery required to deal with that trauma, nor do you have the expertise to espouse the use of such products to people you've never met and/or have no clue as to what their medical history is.
Go back and look at the pictures of the damage this salve did to Hoxsey. Go back and look. If you don't go back and look, ask yourself why you aren't.
People have come to this thread voicing their concern and anger because they're upset. They just saw and read about a woman who disfigured her face because she eschewed proper medical advice and assistance in favour of a group of people who have no certification, knowledge, or experience in the proper, safe, treatment of skin cancers.
And look where it got her:
- A disfigured forehead and nose.
- Medical expenses far beyond what a Mohs surgery would have cost her.
- Weeks of pain.
- Months of concern, fear, anxiety, and emotional suffering.
If you think that's better than the "current Medical Model," the medical model that can perform a removal of a BCC in an outpatient procedure with a ~99% success rate, then I'm afraid you're beyond all hope of having any sort of reasonable discussion with.
Again, to anyone considering this type of "salve treatment" - reconsider. It isn't safe, and there are better medical options out there.
Reply author: BlondeAmbition3
Replied on: 07/28/2013 13:20:25
Message:
quote:
Originally posted by GentlerApproachquote:
Originally posted by julypanda
This Forum isn't for everyone. Bloodroot isn't for everyone. It's for those of us who have NO OTHER HOPE and/or options. It does no harm when used correctly and unlike the current "Medical Model' it allows the body to heal naturally. I recommend that all YOU PEOPLE in opposition of Bloodroot do what you feel you need to do and WE (alternative People) will do what we need to do..... continue to help others who decide to go against the medical Model and use natural Products to help rid our bodies of Cancer and other diseases. No matter how hard we try, sometimes the CANCER is just going to have already invaded and destroyed so much tissue that regardless of the Modality used, disfigurement and or irrevocable damage is bound to happen. We're not invading and disrupting your Forums, so do us the courtesy of not invading and disrupting ours. I'm alive because of Bloodroot... and I will never allow people like you to prevent me from sharing that fact, that truth, that Salvation with others.
Look, I have to address some of your points here because they illustrate why us newcomers are so concerned. Stay with me here and listen to what I have to say, I'll lay this out clearly and concisely:
quote:
Bloodroot isn't for everyone. It's for those of us who have NO OTHER HOPE and/or options.
Hoxsey had other options. She said she had a BCC removed prior and it left minimal scarring. She could have had the BCC on her nose and forehead removed the same way. She chose not to, you all encouraged that choice. She DID have a choice.
quote:
It does no harm when used correctly
If it does no harm when used correctly, are you suggesting that Hoxsey used this incorrectly? Everyone on this forum cheered her on and kept reassuring her that what she did was right, that her body was healing and the salve was hunting down the cancer and removing it. So which is it? Was she using it right and it just scarred her and forced her into multiple, expensive surgeries, or was she using it incorrectly while Bonder et al were telling her she was doing the right thing?
quote:
It does no harm when used correctly and unlike the current "Medical Model' it allows the body to heal naturally.
So, when she was forced into taking Vicodin for the pain, and then had to have surgery to remove cancer that the salve missed, then had to have plastic surgery to have her nose and forehead reconstructed - that's what you call "allowing the body to heal naturally?" It would seem to me that your jab at the "current Medical Model" is unwarranted since the "current Medical Model" was ultimately the model that eased her pain and repaired the damage done by the current "Alternative Model" that this forum pushes.
quote:
I recommend that all YOU PEOPLE in opposition of Bloodroot do what you feel you need to do and WE (alternative People) will do what we need to do..... continue to help others who decide to go against the medical Model and use natural Products to help rid our bodies of Cancer and other diseases.
The problem that those of us in "opposition" to the use of these salves have, is that there are forums like this that provide reams and reams of harmful advice to people who are frightened, desperate, ignorant, or unaware of safer, more effective medical treatments. If you try to contest this point, I will happily go through posts on page one that are medically erroneous and offer nothing but misinformation and bad advice. In fact, the only good advice I think I saw on the first page of this thread was that Hoxsey go to see a doctor. Hindsight is 20/20, I suppose.
The substances you all seem to think are specifically targeting cancer are doing no such thing. It's a shotgun approach that causes catastrophic tissue damage and cell death to both healthy and cancerous cells. Again, the before and after photos say everything that needs to be said in this regard. A surgical procedure would have been a far safer, less expensive, and far less damaging alternative.
quote:
No matter how hard we try, sometimes the CANCER is just going to have already invaded and destroyed so much tissue that regardless of the Modality used, disfigurement and or irrevocable damage is bound to happen.
As I mentioned above, this post further illustrates the complete and utter lack of understanding of how these products work. The damage done to Hoxsey's face, and anyone else who had been disfigured by these products is not cause by cancer or the salve's imagined aggressive pursuit of cancer. The damage is done by the product itself. Read that again: The products you are using are destroying your tissues whether cancer is present or not. The damage done is not linked to the amount of cancer present, it's linked to the use and abuse of the salve itself.
quote:
We're not invading and disrupting your Forums, so do us the courtesy of not invading and disrupting ours.
People are here "disrupting" your forum because news of this poor woman's suffering got out and spread around the net. Of all the people who have seen this story, a tiny handful have come here out of concern, sadness, and even anger. Your forum is a tiny, tiny minority who feels these practices are safe, effective, and "natural." The reason your tiny minority is feeling the heat right now is because the overwhelming majority of people learning about this story find it abhorrent, disheartening, and dangerous.
I imagine that view may reinforce your community's belief that you're all onto something esoteric and that nobody else will understand it because we've all been brainwashed by the System, or something of the sort. I certainly hope that's not the case because quite frankly, it would be an absurd notion to harbour. People freak out when they hear and see this story because it's indicative of unhealthy modes of thought and unsafe practices, period.
quote:
I'm alive because of Bloodroot... and I will never allow people like you to prevent me from sharing that fact, that truth, that Salvation with others.
This is the most disturbing thing you've said thus far. I'm sure you think you're alive because of bloodroot but you could have been saved by a doctor's expertise just as easily, and probably far less traumatically.
This isn't about your experience, this is about Hoxsey and all the terrible misinformation and advice the poor woman has been given by people who don't understand the chemicals they're dealing with. YOU, specifically YOU, julypanda, may have the right to share your story; but you most certainly don't have the expertise or medical knowledge to offer advice on the application of a substance that literally ate away healthy tissue and disfigured another human being. You don't have the expertise to advise on the recovery required to deal with that trauma, nor do you have the expertise to espouse the use of such products to people you've never met and/or have no clue as to what their medical history is.
Go back and look at the pictures of the damage this salve did to Hoxsey. Go back and look. If you don't go back and look, ask yourself why you aren't.
People have come to this thread voicing their concern and anger because they're upset. They just saw and read about a woman who disfigured her face because she eschewed proper medical advice and assistance in favour of a group of people who have no certification, knowledge, or experience in the proper, safe, treatment of skin cancers.
And look where it got her:
- A disfigured forehead and nose.
- Medical expenses far beyond what a Mohs surgery would have cost her.
- Weeks of pain.
- Months of concern, fear, anxiety, and emotional suffering.
If you think that's better than the "current Medical Model," the medical model that can perform a removal of a BCC in an outpatient procedure with a ~99% success rate, then I'm afraid you're beyond all hope of having any sort of reasonable discussion with.
Again, to anyone considering this type of "salve treatment" - reconsider. It isn't safe, and there are better medical options out there.
You think your arguments are valid... they aren't. I don't advocate ANYONE to use Bloodroot... each person has to make a personal decision based on their own research and due diligence ...I didn't advocate that Hoxsey use it.... merely offered consolation and support 'after' the fact. No one encouraged or advocated I use it.. I used it because I found it to be the right thing for ME to do. You're making a LOT of 'assumptions' here also.... you're assuming Hoxsey didn't get all of the Cancer with the Bloodroot.... No one can say with 100 percent certainty whether she did or didn't.... the Doctors performed surgery reconstructive surgery that probably would have had to have been performed anyway because her Cancer had already destroyed so much tissue that her nose was not able to be saved no matter what methods used. It happens... I had a Friend with breast Cancer who chose the traditional Medical Model (Chemo & Radiation) and her breast still turned black and rotted off before she died.... The 'kind' Medical Model held no hope for her. I have dozens of dead Friends from Cancer who have been POISONED, disfigured and cut to pieces using the traditional Medical Model. I also know DOZENS who are alive & well using Bloodroot and other natural methods.... It's OUR choices.... and whether you care to believe it or not is YOUR biased choice. Every one of us who choose whatever paths to our wellness have to inform ourselves to ALL of the options available and then weigh the risks accordingly. Unfortunately, there are some unhappy endings. This IS about MY experience... it's about everyone's experiences.... and you can not say with any certainty whatsoever (nor can anyone else for that matter) that Hoxsey's outcome would have been 'better' if she'd have gone YOUR recommended route. You think the traditional Medical Model is the better option out there... many of us don't. You will NOT silence my voice with yours because I KNOW that you're wrong. Nature has everything we need for our health and healing and of that I am certain. Conventional Medicine, on the other hand, is only concerned with palliative therapies and 'sick care'... and it's probably WHY you're on this Forum.... because they're tired of losing millions to the people who are genuinely HEALED because of alternative therapies. I KNOW because I shouldn't be here right now.... if I had gone the traditional Medical Route I'd already have been buried years ago. Instead, I'm CURED... spending time I wouldn't otherwise have had doing everything I'd ever planned to do with my Life.... because I still have one to plan.
Reply author: BlondeAmbition3
Replied on: 07/28/2013 13:30:35
Message:
FYI:
* Properly formulated Bloodroot does NOTHING to non diseased tissue. Nothing. Nada. Never. I can prove it.
* I just want to add. In 2008 I was 'terminal'... there was NO HOPE For me. Stage 4 SYSTEMIC Squamous Cell Carcinoma. No Doctor alive anywhere could help me. I was on my own.
Reply author: GentlerApproach
Replied on: 07/28/2013 13:40:10
Message:
quote:
Originally posted by BlondeAmbition3quote:
Originally posted by GentlerApproachquote:
Originally posted by julypanda
This Forum isn't for everyone. Bloodroot isn't for everyone. It's for those of us who have NO OTHER HOPE and/or options. It does no harm when used correctly and unlike the current "Medical Model' it allows the body to heal naturally. I recommend that all YOU PEOPLE in opposition of Bloodroot do what you feel you need to do and WE (alternative People) will do what we need to do..... continue to help others who decide to go against the medical Model and use natural Products to help rid our bodies of Cancer and other diseases. No matter how hard we try, sometimes the CANCER is just going to have already invaded and destroyed so much tissue that regardless of the Modality used, disfigurement and or irrevocable damage is bound to happen. We're not invading and disrupting your Forums, so do us the courtesy of not invading and disrupting ours. I'm alive because of Bloodroot... and I will never allow people like you to prevent me from sharing that fact, that truth, that Salvation with others.
Look, I have to address some of your points here because they illustrate why us newcomers are so concerned. Stay with me here and listen to what I have to say, I'll lay this out clearly and concisely:
quote:
Bloodroot isn't for everyone. It's for those of us who have NO OTHER HOPE and/or options.
Hoxsey had other options. She said she had a BCC removed prior and it left minimal scarring. She could have had the BCC on her nose and forehead removed the same way. She chose not to, you all encouraged that choice. She DID have a choice.
quote:
It does no harm when used correctly
If it does no harm when used correctly, are you suggesting that Hoxsey used this incorrectly? Everyone on this forum cheered her on and kept reassuring her that what she did was right, that her body was healing and the salve was hunting down the cancer and removing it. So which is it? Was she using it right and it just scarred her and forced her into multiple, expensive surgeries, or was she using it incorrectly while Bonder et al were telling her she was doing the right thing?
quote:
It does no harm when used correctly and unlike the current "Medical Model' it allows the body to heal naturally.
So, when she was forced into taking Vicodin for the pain, and then had to have surgery to remove cancer that the salve missed, then had to have plastic surgery to have her nose and forehead reconstructed - that's what you call "allowing the body to heal naturally?" It would seem to me that your jab at the "current Medical Model" is unwarranted since the "current Medical Model" was ultimately the model that eased her pain and repaired the damage done by the current "Alternative Model" that this forum pushes.
quote:
I recommend that all YOU PEOPLE in opposition of Bloodroot do what you feel you need to do and WE (alternative People) will do what we need to do..... continue to help others who decide to go against the medical Model and use natural Products to help rid our bodies of Cancer and other diseases.
The problem that those of us in "opposition" to the use of these salves have, is that there are forums like this that provide reams and reams of harmful advice to people who are frightened, desperate, ignorant, or unaware of safer, more effective medical treatments. If you try to contest this point, I will happily go through posts on page one that are medically erroneous and offer nothing but misinformation and bad advice. In fact, the only good advice I think I saw on the first page of this thread was that Hoxsey go to see a doctor. Hindsight is 20/20, I suppose.
The substances you all seem to think are specifically targeting cancer are doing no such thing. It's a shotgun approach that causes catastrophic tissue damage and cell death to both healthy and cancerous cells. Again, the before and after photos say everything that needs to be said in this regard. A surgical procedure would have been a far safer, less expensive, and far less damaging alternative.
quote:
No matter how hard we try, sometimes the CANCER is just going to have already invaded and destroyed so much tissue that regardless of the Modality used, disfigurement and or irrevocable damage is bound to happen.
As I mentioned above, this post further illustrates the complete and utter lack of understanding of how these products work. The damage done to Hoxsey's face, and anyone else who had been disfigured by these products is not cause by cancer or the salve's imagined aggressive pursuit of cancer. The damage is done by the product itself. Read that again: The products you are using are destroying your tissues whether cancer is present or not. The damage done is not linked to the amount of cancer present, it's linked to the use and abuse of the salve itself.
quote:
We're not invading and disrupting your Forums, so do us the courtesy of not invading and disrupting ours.
People are here "disrupting" your forum because news of this poor woman's suffering got out and spread around the net. Of all the people who have seen this story, a tiny handful have come here out of concern, sadness, and even anger. Your forum is a tiny, tiny minority who feels these practices are safe, effective, and "natural." The reason your tiny minority is feeling the heat right now is because the overwhelming majority of people learning about this story find it abhorrent, disheartening, and dangerous.
I imagine that view may reinforce your community's belief that you're all onto something esoteric and that nobody else will understand it because we've all been brainwashed by the System, or something of the sort. I certainly hope that's not the case because quite frankly, it would be an absurd notion to harbour. People freak out when they hear and see this story because it's indicative of unhealthy modes of thought and unsafe practices, period.
quote:
I'm alive because of Bloodroot... and I will never allow people like you to prevent me from sharing that fact, that truth, that Salvation with others.
This is the most disturbing thing you've said thus far. I'm sure you think you're alive because of bloodroot but you could have been saved by a doctor's expertise just as easily, and probably far less traumatically.
This isn't about your experience, this is about Hoxsey and all the terrible misinformation and advice the poor woman has been given by people who don't understand the chemicals they're dealing with. YOU, specifically YOU, julypanda, may have the right to share your story; but you most certainly don't have the expertise or medical knowledge to offer advice on the application of a substance that literally ate away healthy tissue and disfigured another human being. You don't have the expertise to advise on the recovery required to deal with that trauma, nor do you have the expertise to espouse the use of such products to people you've never met and/or have no clue as to what their medical history is.
Go back and look at the pictures of the damage this salve did to Hoxsey. Go back and look. If you don't go back and look, ask yourself why you aren't.
People have come to this thread voicing their concern and anger because they're upset. They just saw and read about a woman who disfigured her face because she eschewed proper medical advice and assistance in favour of a group of people who have no certification, knowledge, or experience in the proper, safe, treatment of skin cancers.
And look where it got her:
- A disfigured forehead and nose.
- Medical expenses far beyond what a Mohs surgery would have cost her.
- Weeks of pain.
- Months of concern, fear, anxiety, and emotional suffering.
If you think that's better than the "current Medical Model," the medical model that can perform a removal of a BCC in an outpatient procedure with a ~99% success rate, then I'm afraid you're beyond all hope of having any sort of reasonable discussion with.
Again, to anyone considering this type of "salve treatment" - reconsider. It isn't safe, and there are better medical options out there.
You think your arguments are valid... they aren't. I don't advocate ANYONE to use Bloodroot... each person has to make a personal decision based on their own research and due diligence ...I didn't advocate that Hoxsey use it.... merely offered consolation and support 'after' the fact. No one encouraged or advocated I use it.. I used it because I found it to be the right thing for ME to do. You're making a LOT of 'assumptions' here also.... you're assuming Hoxsey didn't get all of the Cancer with the Bloodroot.... No one can say with 100 percent certainty whether she did or didn't.... the Doctors performed surgery reconstructive surgery that probably would have had to have been performed anyway because her Cancer had already destroyed so much tissue that her nose was not able to be saved no matter what methods used. It happens... I had a Friend with breast Cancer who chose the traditional Medical Model (Chemo & Radiation) and her breast still turned black and rotted off before she died.... The 'kind' Medical Model held no hope for her. I have dozens of dead Friends from Cancer who have been POISONED, disfigured and cut to pieces using the traditional Medical Model. I also know DOZENS who are alive & well using Bloodroot and other natural methods.... It's OUR choices.... and whether you care to believe it or not is YOUR biased choice. Every one of us who choose whatever paths to our wellness have to inform ourselves to ALL of the options available and then weigh the risks accordingly. Unfortunately, there are some unhappy endings. This IS about MY experience... it's about everyone's experiences.... and you can not say with any certainty whatsoever (nor can anyone else for that matter) that Hoxsey's outcome would have been 'better' if she'd have gone YOUR recommended route. You think the traditional Medical Model is the better option out there... many of us don't. You will NOT silence my voice with yours because I KNOW that you're wrong. Nature has everything we need for our health and healing and of that I am certain. Conventional Medicine, on the other hand, is only concerned with palliative therapies and 'sick care'... and it's probably WHY you're on this Forum.... because they're tired of losing millions to the people who are genuinely HEALED because of alternative therapies. I KNOW because I shouldn't be here right now.... if I had gone the traditional Medical Route I'd already have been buried years ago. Instead, I'm CURED... spending time I wouldn't otherwise have had doing everything I'd ever planned to do with my Life.... because I still have one to plan.
Many people in the thread continued to encourage Hoxsey's use of the salve when it should have been clear it was doing tremendous damage. That's not an "assumption" that's a fact, it's all there in the comments. I actually went through and read everything that Hoxsey and others said.
My arguments are plenty valid. If you feel otherwise, why don't you do a better job of showing why you feel that's the case? I'm sorry that your friends died of cancer and you feel that "kind Medical Model" didn't help them but how do you know your salves would have done any better? You don't.
Cancer sucks. It's horrible. Sometimes it's too much and there's nothing any treatment can do to save a person. You're not the only person who has lost friends to cancer. I, on the other hand, have lost people because they opted for "Alternative treatments" when they should have just gone to a doctor - but you know, maybe even a doctor couldn't have saved them at that point.
That's the thing though, Hoxsey's cancer was a type that has a ~99% success rate when treated with modern medicine. She's already evidence that model works (her previous surgery on her lip) and does so with minimal scarring. What she instead chose to do was try a salve that destroyed more of her face than the standard surgery would have. How can you even dispute that when she herself is a living comparison of the two options?
You tell me I can't say for certainty that Hoxsey's outcome would have been better if she went the medical route - to which I respond, look at the success of her previous surgery (she linked a photo of the results). That's a pretty solid indicator of what she could have expected, wouldn't you say?
quote:
You will NOT silence my voice with yours because I KNOW that you're wrong.
I'm not trying to silence your voice, I'm trying to illustrate that some of the views here are harmful. They are. Hoxsey is a prime example of what happens when people take harmful advice.
Also, you don't KNOW I'm wrong. You think I'm wrong because you hold a different opinion. From my first post I said you're all welcome to do whatever suits you to your own bodies - nobody denies that. The issue people have with what's going on here is that many of you are promoting actions and offering advice when you're not in a position to do so without potentially jeopardizing someone's health.
quote:
Conventional Medicine, on the other hand, is only concerned with palliative therapies and 'sick care'... and it's probably WHY you're on this Forum.... because they're tired of losing millions to the people who are genuinely HEALED because of alternative therapies.
Come on now, this is a silly leap to make. Conventional medicine is one of the reasons our species is as successful as it is today. Conventional medicine is the reason crippling diseases have been essentially eliminated from entire populations of people. It's the reason people survive traumatic illnesses and injuries. I'm not here because I'm a member of some covert organization that's trying to get back lost money by poisoning the well of alternative medicine; I'm here because I'm concerned for people like Hoxsey. People who have/had other safer options that would have spared them months of suffering.
quote:
I KNOW because I shouldn't be here right now.... if I had gone the traditional Medical Route I'd already have been buried years ago. Instead, I'm CURED... spending time I wouldn't otherwise have had doing everything I'd ever planned to do with my Life.... because I still have one to plan.
It's too bad all the people who opted for alternative medicines that ultimately failed them can't voice their opinions on the matter.
Reply author: Chill
Replied on: 07/28/2013 13:50:56
Message:
You'd call BlondeAmbition3's response an example of the "backfire effect", where some people tend to dig in when confronted with opposing evidence, sometimes strengthening the erroneous belief. No one knows why, but people identifying too closely with a belief can feel the questioning of it as a personal attack.
But it's not all her fault. There's a shared cognitive bias at work which you'd call "communal reinforcement" where something is believed because it's repeated in a community enough times. Doesn't matter if it's actually true, the thing becomes true because you've heard it said, and the person who said it is a good person. Then you come to a site like this and there's a whole bunch of good people to talk to, and the information from them must be good. Nope.
Stay safe.
Reply author: shazbot
Replied on: 07/28/2013 14:51:30
Message:
GentlerApproach you are far too kind. You are most certainly far too logical. These people cannot be reasoned with. Your sound arguments and reasoning do nothing but drive them deeper into their delusion. The very act of presenting a coherent argument only embeds them further. We can only hope these fools find a "natural" cure more detrimental to one's health than zinc chloride. The herd needs thinning. And to you chill, enough with the sympathizing. If one chooses to behave like an idiot they should expect to be treated as such.
Reply author: julypanda
Replied on: 07/28/2013 16:14:40
Message:
Gentlerapproach, thank you for your much nicer words than that of your forum. I can understand where you are coming from, but everyone has their own ideas and own reasons. However, I do applaud for your nicely worded approach. It has made me stop and think....
Shazbot - it is people like you that rather than want to read what you have written, simply choose to turn off due to your arrogance.
At least in this forum we don't use the "eff" word in every single sentence. It is mostly people talking about their experience, or people asking questions trying to find answers to alternative treatments. If we were all the same it would be a boring world, and the doctors would have all the power.
Just my thoughts anyway.
Reply author: djt10
Replied on: 07/28/2013 18:26:31
Message:
Somebody out there still believes that conventional cancer therapies work and that oncologists know their business? My old naturopath (who cured my cancer and other chronic/degenerative diseases all at the same time with a 5 week treatment)used to call conventional cancer treatments "barbaric" and after years of research, I think he was being kind. He cured all of his cancer patients who went there first and most of them who came as a last resort after their oncologists sent them home to die (after the insurance ran out). No drugs, no chemo, no radiation, nothing harmful whatsoever. When it comes to conventional cancer treatment, Australia did a study of the US compared to Australian cure rates using chemo. The overall average survival rate for both countries was around 2.3% I believe. That's survival at the 5 year junction. Some treatments have a higher survival rate than that, some lower, some none at all. That's the averaged statistic. "Spontaneous remission" has a 5% cure rate. That's for doing nothing at all. That means you have a better chance of survival doing nothing than trusting an oncologist with your life and well-being. At least bloodroot and zinc chloride are specific for abnormal cells and tissues, unlike any kind of conventional cancer treatment. For someone who lost substantial tissue to a salve treatment, imagine what it would have been if they had tried to surgically find all of the affected tissue, what happens when you cut into a cancer, and what happens when you miss cancer cells and can't chase after the roots. Not one single person in my family or my husband's who has had cancer and submitted to "state-of-the-art" cancer treatment has survived. Not one. My best friend has been against alternative treatment for decades since an elderly uncle went after some obscure alternative treatment and died anyway, but when she came back with a bad mammogram she suddenly had a change of heart and did a salve treatment. It took ages for that thing to close up and she was getting really worried, but as long as there is something in there that needs more work or to continue draining out, the opening usually stays open or heals over abnormally. Hers has completely closed up now and she went back for a mammogram and got a clean bill of health this time. But we only use salve treatment as part of a much larger protocol which involves changing our pH, careful diet, detoxing and doing everything possible to raise our overall level of health. Still, we've been using salve since 1986 and will continue to do so rather than ever, EVER trust "conventional cancer treatment" which has failed dismally, as evidenced by the "war on cancer" statistics which began in the 1950's, I think, and have gone downhill ever since. Hippocrates, the "Father of Western Medicine" must be turning over in his grave. He knew what real healing was about and there is no resemblance to what passes as conventional medicine these days. Emergency medicine, the treatment of injuries, deformities and that kind of affliction is another story, but for the treatment of acute and chronic disease, infection, and other kinds of illness--we've gone backwards into a new dark age of medicine. It's too bad when people who haven't done their homework and know so little about the real world picture of medicine chose to get their jollies by attacking others who have and do, but they run amuck with closed minds and a battering ram mentality so it's pointless to try to duke it out with them...and a waste of time and energy. They are just part of the endless perils that pioneers have to face and best ignored when possible. And don't think that Big Pharma is above sending people out to harass people on sites like this. I used to monitor on an international complaint site and we had to deal with professional rabblerousers all the time.
Unless we put medical freedom into the Constitution, the time will come
when medicine will organize into an undercover dictatorship to restrict
the art of healing to one class of Men and deny equal privileges to
others; the Constitution of the Republic should make a Special
privilege for medical freedoms as well as religious freedom.
#8213; Benjamin Rush, MD
Signer on the Constitution
Reply author: the
Replied on: 07/29/2013 02:02:08
Message:
quote:
Originally posted by djt10
My old naturopath (who cured my cancer and other chronic/degenerative diseases all at the same time with a 5 week treatment)used to call conventional cancer treatments "barbaric" and after years of research, I think he was being kind. He cured all of his cancer patients who went there first and most of them who came as a last resort after their oncologists sent them home to die (after the insurance ran out). No drugs, no chemo, no radiation, nothing harmful whatsoever.
Can you provide a website or link to this individual's claims?
quote:
When it comes to conventional cancer treatment, Australia did a study of the US compared to Australian cure rates using chemo. The overall average survival rate for both countries was around 2.3% I believe. That's survival at the 5 year junction. Some treatments have a higher survival rate than that, some lower, some none at all. That's the averaged statistic. "Spontaneous remission" has a 5% cure rate. That's for doing nothing at all. That means you have a better chance of survival doing nothing than trusting an oncologist with your life and well-being.
This is how we can tell you're delusional. A 10-second search by a child could tell you that cancer survival rates for most cancers in the Western world are well above 50%.
Furthermore, there is no known rate at which spontaneous regression occurs. Breast cancer, for example, may have a rate as high as 20%. Other cancers may have a rate as low as 1 in 100,000.
quote:
At least bloodroot and zinc chloride are specific for abnormal cells and tissues, unlike any kind of conventional cancer treatment.
The existence of this very thread shows that it does not only target abnormal cells and tissue.
quote:
Still, we've been using salve since 1986 and will continue to do so rather than ever, EVER trust "conventional cancer treatment" which has failed dismally, as evidenced by the "war on cancer" statistics which began in the 1950's, I think, and have gone downhill ever since.
Again, your facts are just plain wrong. Cancer treatment effectiveness has been, generally speaking, increasing steadily over the last 40 years in Western societies. Some cancers, like lung cancer, have not seen much change in survivability unfortunately. Most have, however.
In the period between 1990 and 2005, cancer death rates in the US dropped around 20% for men, and about 11% for women. The 5-year survival rate for all diagnosed cancers was up 66% percent in the period of 1996-2004. Since the mid-2000s, cancer death rates have continued to fall.
quote:
Hippocrates, the "Father of Western Medicine" must be turning over in his grave. He knew what real healing was about and there is no resemblance to what passes as conventional medicine these days.
Hippocrates lived in a pre-scientific period when essentially nothing was known about medicine or physics. He should not at all be considered an authority on anything, let alone the efficacy of modern treatments.
quote:
Emergency medicine, the treatment of injuries, deformities and that kind of affliction is another story, but for the treatment of acute and chronic disease, infection, and other kinds of illness--we've gone backwards into a new dark age of medicine.
The facts don't back you up. Cancer survivability is just one indication that you're out of touch with reality.
quote:
And don't think that Big Pharma is above sending people out to harass people on sites like this. I used to monitor on an international complaint site and we had to deal with professional rabblerousers all the time.
Oh no, the Big Pharma bogey man. Hide your wife, hide your kids, and hide your husband.
Even if the voices of reason on here were working for pharmaceutical companies, ad hominem attacks are still ad hominem attacks.
quote:
Unless we put medical freedom into the Constitution, the time will come when medicine will organize into an undercover dictatorship to restrict the art of healing to one class of Men and deny equal privileges to others; the Constitution of the Republic should make a Special privilege for medical freedoms as well as religious freedom.
Benjamin Rush also practiced medicine in a mostly pre-scientific capacity, and should also not be used as an authority on anything. Nevertheless, adults will always have the right to do stupid things to themselves, like the individuals in this thread so callously encourage others to do.
Reply author: muderousegg
Replied on: 07/29/2013 08:32:36
Message:
I love you GentlerApproach
Reply author: BlondeAmbition3
Replied on: 07/29/2013 13:04:48
Message:
quote:
Originally posted by djt10
Somebody out there still believes that conventional cancer therapies work and that oncologists know their business? My old naturopath (who cured my cancer and other chronic/degenerative diseases all at the same time with a 5 week treatment)used to call conventional cancer treatments "barbaric" and after years of research, I think he was being kind. He cured all of his cancer patients who went there first and most of them who came as a last resort after their oncologists sent them home to die (after the insurance ran out). No drugs, no chemo, no radiation, nothing harmful whatsoever. When it comes to conventional cancer treatment, Australia did a study of the US compared to Australian cure rates using chemo. The overall average survival rate for both countries was around 2.3% I believe. That's survival at the 5 year junction. Some treatments have a higher survival rate than that, some lower, some none at all. That's the averaged statistic. "Spontaneous remission" has a 5% cure rate. That's for doing nothing at all. That means you have a better chance of survival doing nothing than trusting an oncologist with your life and well-being. At least bloodroot and zinc chloride are specific for abnormal cells and tissues, unlike any kind of conventional cancer treatment. For someone who lost substantial tissue to a salve treatment, imagine what it would have been if they had tried to surgically find all of the affected tissue, what happens when you cut into a cancer, and what happens when you miss cancer cells and can't chase after the roots. Not one single person in my family or my husband's who has had cancer and submitted to "state-of-the-art" cancer treatment has survived. Not one. My best friend has been against alternative treatment for decades since an elderly uncle went after some obscure alternative treatment and died anyway, but when she came back with a bad mammogram she suddenly had a change of heart and did a salve treatment. It took ages for that thing to close up and she was getting really worried, but as long as there is something in there that needs more work or to continue draining out, the opening usually stays open or heals over abnormally. Hers has completely closed up now and she went back for a mammogram and got a clean bill of health this time. But we only use salve treatment as part of a much larger protocol which involves changing our pH, careful diet, detoxing and doing everything possible to raise our overall level of health. Still, we've been using salve since 1986 and will continue to do so rather than ever, EVER trust "conventional cancer treatment" which has failed dismally, as evidenced by the "war on cancer" statistics which began in the 1950's, I think, and have gone downhill ever since. Hippocrates, the "Father of Western Medicine" must be turning over in his grave. He knew what real healing was about and there is no resemblance to what passes as conventional medicine these days. Emergency medicine, the treatment of injuries, deformities and that kind of affliction is another story, but for the treatment of acute and chronic disease, infection, and other kinds of illness--we've gone backwards into a new dark age of medicine. It's too bad when people who haven't done their homework and know so little about the real world picture of medicine chose to get their jollies by attacking others who have and do, but they run amuck with closed minds and a battering ram mentality so it's pointless to try to duke it out with them...and a waste of time and energy. They are just part of the endless perils that pioneers have to face and best ignored when possible. And don't think that Big Pharma is above sending people out to harass people on sites like this. I used to monitor on an international complaint site and we had to deal with professional rabblerousers all the time.
Unless we put medical freedom into the Constitution, the time will come
when medicine will organize into an undercover dictatorship to restrict
the art of healing to one class of Men and deny equal privileges to
others; the Constitution of the Republic should make a Special
privilege for medical freedoms as well as religious freedom.
#8213; Benjamin Rush, MD
Signer on the Constitution
Well put djt10. This post gets a well deserved TRUTH BUMP!!!!
Reply author: Bwakul
Replied on: 07/29/2013 22:26:17
Message:
Thank you to others who have already pointed out some of the errors and inconsistencies in djt10's posts. It am also astounded at those offering advice in such a serious situation without medical training and at times very limited understanding of the basic science. The hubris involved is mind blowing.
I wanted to make a couple of points.
Your statement that modern medicine has gone backwards in the treatment of acute and chronic disease is laughable. The number of people saved or whose life expectancy and quality of life has been improved by medical breakthroughs in the last 100 years is a wonder of human achievement.
Treatments evolve from a scientific approach to the study of our natural world. Otherwise we would be hanging on to the countless myths and guesses and snake oil salesmen of the past. Unfortunately, it has been shown again and again that individual patient testimonials and anecdotes are misleading when assessing medical treatments for efficacy. A systematic and statistical approach is required when looking at any type of treatment.
Although we live in a world corrupted by money and power, big pharma does have some balances and checks in place. There are thousands of academic medical research institutions out there, government and charitable instituons, that are not motivated by money alone, but by RESULTS. If black salve was the miracle treatment you claim it to be there would be scientists activiely eager for involvement in studies looking to confirm efficacy ex vivo and in animal studies to start with. If it passed this stage, then clinical studies would have followed.
Reply author: Bwakul
Replied on: 07/30/2013 02:10:21
Message:
Might be wise to read the Material Safety Data Sheet (MSDS) for Zinc Chloride before applying this "natural" product to your face.
http://www.sciencelab.com/msds.php?msdsId=9927328
Potential Acute Health Effects:
Very hazardous in case of skin contact (irritant), of eye contact (irritant), of ingestion, of inhalation. Hazardous in case of skin contact (corrosive, permeator), of eye contact (corrosive). The amount of tissue damage depends on length of contact. Eye contact can result in corneal damage or blindness. Skin contact can produce inflammation and blistering. Inhalation of dust
will produce irritation to gastro-intestinal or respiratory tract, characterized by burning, sneezing and coughing. Severe over- exposure can produce lung damage, choking, unconsciousness or death. Inflammation of the eye is characterized by redness, watering, and itching. Skin inflammation is characterized by itching, scaling, reddening, or, occasionally, blistering.
Potential Chronic Health Effects:
CARCINOGENIC EFFECTS: Not available. MUTAGENIC EFFECTS: Classified POSSIBLE for human. Mutagenic for mammalian somatic cells. Mutagenic for bacteria and/or yeast. TERATOGENIC EFFECTS: Not available. DEVELOPMENTAL TOXICITY: Not available. The substance may be toxic to kidneys, pancreas. Repeated or prolonged exposure to the substance can produce target organs damage. Repeated exposure of the eyes to a low level of dust can produce eye irritation. Repeated skin exposure can produce local skin destruction, or dermatitis. Repeated inhalation of dust can produce varying degree of respiratory irritation or lung damage.
Reply author: shazbot
Replied on: 07/30/2013 13:31:34
Message:
The most fascinating thing about people like djt10 and the morons who believe the nonsense she spews is their complete disdain. She writes in one post "I did some research on zinc chloride." Really? You did some research. Utterly laughable. Visiting a fellow quacks website to read their insane posting about how zinc chloride works does not equal research. djt10 you would not even have the slightest clue where to begin actual research on any compound.
More words of wisdom from djt10 "Becca, black salve doesn't eat through the flesh. If there's no abnormal tissues on top or beneath, it just sits there and does nothing except possible turn the skin a little pink." djt10 you forgot to add that turn a little pink equals your entire nose will be corroded and will be painfully removed from your face.
My favorite from djt10 on this forum has to be this gem "The electromagnetic field of the earth and sunlight are terribly important and unfortunately the kind of shoe soles we all wear now (that wasn't a problem with leather soles) are a boundary to the healing force of the earth, but sunlight is more critically important." I love it. It really is, almost impossible to believe that these ideas exist in a human's brain. The fact that these words, in this order, have come out of this woman's mouth without everyone in earshot bursting into uncontrollable laughter amazes me.
djt10 you are insane. You are a moron of the highest degree. The fact that anyone listens to the nonsense you blabber about and then applies it to their daily life is disturbing. People like you exist on the fringe of society and thankfully so. You deserve to be ridiculed and shoved into a more obscure place than you already exist.
Reply author: julypanda
Replied on: 07/30/2013 16:01:53
Message:
Shazbot - why do you feel the need to take personal swipes at people.
You don't have to like what djt10 has to say, same as we don't have to like what you have to say. But to come on here and start name calling is just ridiculous.
As a matter of interest - have you ever personally used Black Salve?
If not, then you have no right voicing your opinion on whether it is good or bad / right or wrong.
People have been cured by black salve, people have been cured by surgery/chemo - does not make either of them wrong.
Same as people have been disfigured by black salve as they have with surgery. We make choices in our lives - lets not ridicule people for their choices.
Reply author: djt10
Replied on: 07/30/2013 21:47:46
Message:
The Australian study: http://truthquest2.com/chemotherapyStats.htm
50% is nonsense
Reply author: djt10
Replied on: 07/30/2013 21:51:59
Message:
Isn't it interesting that "alternative medicine haters" have found and targeted this site. I've been doing research and writing, specifically featuring government statistics, since 1979. I wish I had more time to spend here, but arguing with people like these is not a productive use of time.
Reply author: djt10
Replied on: 07/30/2013 22:07:29
Message:
I just did a few minutes research using the search terms, "war on cancer" statistics + failure
http://www.csicop.org/si/show/war_on_cancer_a_progress_report_for_skeptics/
http://www.thedailybeast.com/articles/2012/10/02/are-we-wasting-billions-seeking-a-cure-for-cancer.html
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/04/24/health/policy/24cancer.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0
http://www.sourcewatch.org/index.php/War_on_Cancer
http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/03/15/war-on-cancer/
http://www.peopleagainstcancer.com/pdfs/news/20080916n2.pdf
http://www.toxcheckup.com/files/1838125/uploaded/Rethinking%20the%20War%20on%20Cancer.pdf
http://rense.com/general9/cre.htm
Maybe someone here has the time to look into these articles and see if they are well-enough documented to be convincing.
Reply author: Bwakul
Replied on: 07/30/2013 22:34:06
Message:
quote:
Originally posted by djt10
Isn't it interesting that "alternative medicine haters" have found and targeted this site. I've been doing research and writing, specifically featuring government statistics, since 1979. I wish I had more time to spend here, but arguing with people like these is not a productive use of time.
Yes, let's just overlook the very misleading statement you keep repeating that survival rates for cancer patients receiving chemo are only 2%. Did you even read the study or are you regurgitating the 2% thing that is thrown around a lot in alternative circles,?
"The conclusion was that chemo only improved survival rates by an average of 2%. That doesn't mean that only 2% of cancer patients receiving chemo survive past the 5 year mark. You have wrongly interpreted it that way. What it really means is that if everyone that has ever been told they have cancer, be it Stage 1 prostate cancer or Stage 4 lung cancer, has an average “survival” rate of 60%, then chemo will increase that percentage by 2%. The term “survival” or “cure” refers to the 5 year mark in the cancer world. Now, if you have a 60% chance of making it to 5 years, then this study proved that chemotherapy will increase your chance by 2%. So, after chemo, you will have a 62% chance of survival. It's different from the idea that only 2% of chemo patients “make it”, but it isn't exactly a glowing report either. And it depends entirely on the type of cancer. According to other studies, cancer patients with high grade astrocytomas have a 3% survival rate. According to the Australia study, brain cancer patients who receive chemotherapy increase their survival rate by 3.7%. Now you might say that doubles their chances, and you would be right. Having a 6.7% chance of living for 5 more years does sound better than a 3% chance. But of course you have to consider the side effects of chemo and the quality of life you could expect afterwards. The quality of life issue is a major deciding factor for Why patients are so strongly against trying any sort of chemotherapy. For others, extending the time they have with their families may be the most important factor and therefore choosing to try chemo makes sense."
Of course, this relates very little to the survival rates for BCC, which are close to 100% with early diagnosis and modern treatment options which rarely include chemo.
Reply author: Horrux
Replied on: 07/31/2013 02:04:32
Message:
I have BCC on my chest. I am male. I went to the dermatologist, who "suggested" (meaning decided on) surgery. I accepted, thinking "Iow hard could it be? It's on my chest, there's tons of skin around it, she'll just remove an entire skin patch with a large, say 1 inch wide, safety zone around it, and then zip it up with stitches", because, well, that's the sensible approach. But no, no, no. She had to just scratch at it, removing it very incompletely.
It is a known fact that cancers grow faster once they've been cut and not completely excised. Well guess what. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me.
I've been using the Black Salve successfully on my lesions, which are now much larger than just before the dermatologist's surgery, but I am getting rid of it, quite unlike conventional medicine did.
After seeing Hoxsey's photos and according to my own experience, ONLY diseased tissue is affected by Black Salve, which means it creates the MINIMUM scarring you can possibly have. Surgical tools will NEVER, EVER achieve such precision.
Here's my video series, currently running 12 videos: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLd5ZAHbQyq3OyZY7Jt-OAQmjTiSHGjyJi
This stuff is the real deal and you so-called "quack busters" can go back to living under a rock, where you belong.
Reply author: Chill
Replied on: 07/31/2013 03:11:35
Message:
Okay Horrux here's an experiment for you: apply the black salve to a healthy area of your skin and document the process on youtube. According to you your skin should remain unaffected besides a slight reddening? Please clarify exactly what you expect.
I'd expect it to eat into the skin and cause scabbing and scarring in the exact same way as when applied to a BCC.
Are you willing to give this a go my friend?
Reply author: Bwakul
Replied on: 07/31/2013 05:56:36
Message:
Quite easy to fake that experiment with some drawing cream or vegemite.
Reply author: Bwakul
Replied on: 07/31/2013 06:06:09
Message:
Besides, it's possible the black salve has the worst impact when it is applied to an area where the skin is already damaged or broken (ie. when you have a skin cancer), hence why some have suggested in here that you puncture or create an opening on the skin. Could also be that it is much worse on the face because the skin on the face is very sensitive.
Who knows though, it really needs to be properly clinically investigated before I would go near the stuff. Why in the hell would you take the risk? I think that's the real point.
Reply author: Chill
Replied on: 07/31/2013 07:23:24
Message:
Yes, it seems it would have to be applied to broken skin to recreate similar conditions. That's not a test I expect him to make.
Reply author: Horrux
Replied on: 07/31/2013 08:57:22
Message:
quote:
Originally posted by Chill
Okay Horrux here's an experiment for you: apply the black salve to a healthy area of your skin and document the process on youtube. According to you your skin should remain unaffected besides a slight reddening? Please clarify exactly what you expect.
I'd expect it to eat into the skin and cause scabbing and scarring in the exact same way as when applied to a BCC.
Are you willing to give this a go my friend?
Oh, I have done this experiment. I have applied black salve generously around areas that were affected by skin cancer, and there was no effect whatsoever. I'll do the video if you want me to, but it will not show anything at all.
I suggest something else: you buy the black salve, and you spread it on your skin. If you feel it eating into your skin, take it off. If you feel nothing and it does nothing, now you know.
In the end, we, the users of this product, know that it works exactly as advertized. You just don't want to believe that Big Pharma is that corrupt, that such easy, natural, inexpensive cures for cancer exist when cancer is a $500,000,000,000 a year industry. Yes, that is 500 Billion dollars. Hey, if you yourself had "only" a few billion in the balance, would YOU feel like stifling these "dangerous" ideas of easy cures? Most people would. And that's what's happening. The billions talk, and Big Pharma is able to make BETTER youtube videos than most users, "debunking quackery". Of course! There are 500 billion dollars annually to protect... Do the math.
Reply author: shazbot
Replied on: 07/31/2013 10:52:55
Message:
Lookout the scholar djt10 has been doing research. Well djt10 I read every single article you posted. I would be willing to bet you did not. Here is one pertinent quote from Rethinking the War on Cancer.
"The need for such a major shift in attitude and emphasis already seems to be better understood by the public than by
the “cancer establishment.” But the public needs substantial information and guidance if it is to avoid both the grave
perils of faddism and a loss of faith in the well-established benefits of orthodox medical treatment at its best. [It is
important to note that my comments about lack of progress are in no way an argument against the earliest possible
diagnosis and the best possible treatment of cancer. Modern medicine already has much to offer to virtually every
cancer patient, for palliation if not always for cure; the problem is the lack of any substantial recent improvement in
treating the most common forms of cancer. There is no comfort here for the “medical counterculture".
All of the articles you have referenced generally say the same thing. Cancer is a devastating disease in whichever way it presents itself. Despite the billions of dollars spent on research into new medicines/treatments we are still left with limited success in the prognosis. The ability to treat some forms of cancer(Hodgkin's Lymphoma, Leukemia, Prostate and breast cancer) has made significant advances while others(lung, liver, bone and brain) can only be managed with extreme intervention and are almost always fatal. No sane person would deny that this is very disheartening news. Nobody with a working brain would be surprised to read this information. It is common knowledge to the well informed. As I said cancer is a devastating and complex disease. Cancer has been with humans since we began walking this earth. http://www.archaiologia.gr/en/blog/2013/06/07/the-oldest-tumour-found-in-the-human-fossil-record. It has been just over four decades since we embarked on a journey to eradicate this scourge. We are using the best tools available to us. Tools we have gained by the application of modern scientific principles. Once again you have made no real point. All that you have shown is your ability to copy and paste.
One fact still remains. A hapless, down and out, uninformed dope named hoxsey came here. She had a small red sore on her nose. For arguments sake lets just say it was most certainly basal cell carcinoma. She was probably led here by the "teachings" of another alternative medicine practitioner. One maybe not so illuminated as you, with the grand knowledge of the restorative powers of the sun, and the earths magnetic fields. This forum inserts into her decidedly empty mind the idea of black salve. Hoxsey purchases this magical elixir and applies it to her face. Her entire nose is burned from her face. Her forehead left with a gigantic puss oozing wound and eventual scar. Thinking she misheard your scholarly directions on the application of the salve she returns mid corrosion only to be told to apply more. To fill gel capsules and ingest the very compound that is currently removing the flesh from her face. Had hoxsey never heard of black salve. Had she never unwittingly stumbled upon this forum. Had she not received advice from the exalted djt10 and bonder. Had she gone to a real doctor. A trained professional. She would have been treated successfully. She would still have a nose. There is absolutely no arguing that. Basal cell carcinoma when caught early, which it was, as evidenced by the picture is curable. http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/ency/article/000824.htm
To you julypanda. No I have never tried black salve. I would never apply a highly corrosive compound to my skin. The argument that black salve or zinc chloride only targets cancer cells and not healthy tissue is laughable. This is clearly evidenced by hoxsey and her disappearing nose trick. Lets do a little chemistry.
Zinc chlorides, of which nine crystalline forms are known, are colorless or white, and are highly soluble in water. No mineral with this chemical composition is known aside from a very rare mineral, simonkolleite. So much for the "natural" cure. ZnCl2 itself is hygroscopic and even deliquescent. Samples should therefore be protected from sources of moisture, including the water vapor present in ambient air. Aqueous(with water) solutions of ZnCl2 are acidic. The formation of highly reactive anhydrous HCl gas is formed when zinc chloride hydrates are heated. Now I am not a chemist but here goes. ZnCl2 reacts with water. Guess what there is a lot of in living tissue. The ZnCl2 and the water in your cells produce an exothermic reaction(releases heat). This reaction results in lots of heat and HCl. HCl is the gaseous form of hydrochloric acid. When the now produced HCl reacts with the water present in your tissues hydrochloric acid is formed. So...you rub the ZnCl2 salve on your skin. It reacts. Heat and hydrochloric acid are formed and surrounding tissue is dissolved by said acid. Oh, and it gets hot, and painful, and your nose goes away.
You know julypanda you respond to my posts as if I am some kind of arrogant jerk. I'm harsh and inconsiderate. I would say to you, take a good look in the mirror. I would say you are the inconsiderate jerk. You are the one who encourages stupidity. Not harmless innocent stupidity. Stupidity that results in the irreparable harm and disfiguration of people. You encourage terrible behavior and "truth bump" people like djt10. The things you and your brethren espouse on this board are absolute nonsense. I know that what I am writing on this board is a waste of time. I realize people like you and djt10 are so entrenched and insane no form of logic or reasoning could possibly succeed in change. But I do know this. When you and djt10 get into bed to night and rest your head on your pillows one thought will continue to run through your mind. And that thought is this. "Am I crazy...? Is Shazbot right? The answer to both is yes.
Reply author: Bwakul
Replied on: 07/31/2013 11:35:31
Message:
Horux.
I managed a. Medical research lab for many years. Like many thousands of labs around the world, we were located in an academic facility. Our funding came from grants and charitable donations. Neither the lead scientist nor anyone else in the lab was motivated by money. Not that they weren't personally (most people are), but the culture often just does not exist to enable researchers in this setting to profit from their work. Success is generally measured by positive results, publications and progression to clinical treatments. Protection of IP was actually quite poorly managed. Even if you wanted to stretch your conspiracy theories further and say big pharma buys up any promising IP developed in academia and buries it, in practise this would be difficult to hide. There would usually be early publications of ex vivo and animal studies which would be in the public sphere, and many academic settings just don't handle commercialisation well. Hence, to the benefit of the community, research in areas of basic science and where there is little commercialisation potential is still supported.
Reply author: djt10
Replied on: 07/31/2013 13:21:01
Message:
From Newsweek magazine, "We Fought Cancer ...And Cancer Won" http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/2008/09/05/we-fought-cancer-and-cancer-won.html
http://truthquest2.com/cancersalves.htm Bloodroot (Sanguinaria) specific to abnormal cells
Zinc chloride is not corrosive to organic materials other than silk and cellulose (plant cells) but it does break down fungi cell walls and similar cancer cell walls contain chitan which is closely related to cellulose. The claim that black salve "eats away" healthy tissue has no scientific basis, but of course that doesn't stop radical medical fanatics from screeching their nonsensical propaganda. Their attitude seems to be, "Don't confuse me with FACTS. I know what I know."
(Book) The War on Cancer: An Anatomy of Failure, A Blueprint for the Future
http://www.amazon.com/The-War-Cancer-Anatomy-Blueprint/dp/1402086202 (Looks like a well-researched book--I wish I could afford it)
Reply author: Chill
Replied on: 07/31/2013 14:37:13
Message:
Horrux, I've looked into it, Zinc Chloride does permeate cancer tissue better than healthy tissue. But only slightly - perhaps because of different densities? The reason it doesn't appear to effect healthy tissue as readily is because it cannot permeate the top layer of skin to the underlying tissue. Its entry point to the underlying tissue is through the cancerous tissue. This is the effective use of this product, which works in a brutish way by burning through the cancer into the skin.
In Hoxey's case (and many others) the skin has some kind of reaction, the Zinc Chloride permeates the top layer of skin and corrodes the underlying tissue. But I'm no scientist, so I'm not sure about the chemical actions here. All I know is it's scientifically impossible for zinc chloride not to corrode healthy tissue.
If you were to apply it over an open wound (no cancer), the entry point to the underlying tissue would be through the wound. As I mentioned, I don't expect you to perform this test.
I believe the medical industry is filled with corruption and profit chasing psychopaths, as is the case in most industries. In a better world businesses would be held to a size limit by a sober government, and the various companies would compete through ethical standards judged by a satisfied public. But the world is as it is.
I have no idea why you would presume to know how I feel or think about these matters based on such scant information, but you seem to be okay with that method.
None of you have been willing to admit that perhaps, just maybe, you did the wrong thing by not encouraging this woman to seek a doctors opinion. It appears you have a totally nasty opinion of doctors, believing every one to be a crap person? Is every single person selling natural medicine constantly blocking the sunlight beaming out their ass? No. That industry is packed with the same proportion of money hungry psychopaths.
Reply author: Bwakul
Replied on: 07/31/2013 14:54:12
Message:
quote:
Originally posted by djt10
From Newsweek magazine, "We Fought Cancer ...And Cancer Won" http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/2008/09/05/we-fought-cancer-and-cancer-won.html
http://truthquest2.com/cancersalves.htm Bloodroot (Sanguinaria) specific to abnormal cells
Zinc chloride is not corrosive to organic materials other than silk and cellulose (plant cells) but it does break down fungi cell walls and similar cancer cell walls contain chitan which is closely related to cellulose. The claim that black salve "eats away" healthy tissue has no scientific basis, but of course that doesn't stop radical medical fanatics from screeching their nonsensical propaganda. Their attitude seems to be, "Don't confuse me with FACTS. I know what I know."
(Book) The War on Cancer: An Anatomy of Failure, A Blueprint for the Future
http://www.amazon.com/The-War-Cancer-Anatomy-Blueprint/dp/1402086202 (Looks like a well-researched book--I wish I could afford it)
Oh this response is priceless.
Nice one. I'm going to create my own website and then quote myself as a supporting source for all my own opinions. Lol. So what exactly are your medical/scientific credentials ?
I love the story from Dr Weil, who tries it on his dog (once) and then decides this is ample animal testing to show safety and efficacy before he moves directly onto human guinea pigs.
Reply author: hmatt843
Replied on: 08/01/2013 08:40:38
Message:
Hi Horrux,
I understand you are likely trying to save money and that you are trying to keep high hopes, but I would encourage you to please reconsider your route of treatment and seek truly professional care. Your health should be of utmost concern and is not something to be toyed or experimented with. Please consider my words more seriously than you may be initially inclined to.
Reply author: Horrux
Replied on: 08/01/2013 09:55:30
Message:
quote:
Originally posted by Bwakul
Horux.
I managed a. Medical research lab for many years. Like many thousands of labs around the world, we were located in an academic facility. Our funding came from grants and charitable donations. Neither the lead scientist nor anyone else in the lab was motivated by money. Not that they weren't personally (most people are), but the culture often just does not exist to enable researchers in this setting to profit from their work. Success is generally measured by positive results, publications and progression to clinical treatments. Protection of IP was actually quite poorly managed. Even if you wanted to stretch your conspiracy theories further and say big pharma buys up any promising IP developed in academia and buries it, in practise this would be difficult to hide. There would usually be early publications of ex vivo and animal studies which would be in the public sphere, and many academic settings just don't handle commercialisation well. Hence, to the benefit of the community, research in areas of basic science and where there is little commercialisation potential is still supported.
In any so-called "scientific" endeavor, there is always the looming specter of heresy. You will say, ah, but heresy is about religions, not about science, which is about objective observation of facts. Well, today "science" has become a religion, and whenever a "scientist" does not toe the line of what is generally accepted as "proper science" gets instantly ostracized.
You don't believe me? Go ahead, do some actual research on Black Salve, and see what the response is. And if the response isn't completely negative about your STUDYING it, just watch the so-called "scientific" community's reaction when you publish your results that indeed, Black Salve, with is myriad active ingredients, does induce the immune system to fight and destroy the cancer cells. But before that, just make sure your affairs are in order and that your insurance policy is very well thought out. You know, the mechanism by which black salve does this on skin cancer could easily be transposed on other types of tumors.
My credentials are that I am both a respected economist and a biologist. And I can tell you that the entire world would go into a recession just from acknowledgement by Big Pharma that something can indeed cure cancer. They will never do that. But I do encourage you to experiment with it. My making videos for you will never be enough. Videos can be doctored. In the end if you want to challenge your "skepticism", the only thing for you to do is to test it on yourself, and then try to find someone who has skin cancer who is willing to give it a shot.
Reply author: Horrux
Replied on: 08/01/2013 09:58:58
Message:
quote:
Originally posted by Bwakulquote:
Originally posted by djt10
From Newsweek magazine, "We Fought Cancer ...And Cancer Won" http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/2008/09/05/we-fought-cancer-and-cancer-won.html
http://truthquest2.com/cancersalves.htm Bloodroot (Sanguinaria) specific to abnormal cells
Zinc chloride is not corrosive to organic materials other than silk and cellulose (plant cells) but it does break down fungi cell walls and similar cancer cell walls contain chitan which is closely related to cellulose. The claim that black salve "eats away" healthy tissue has no scientific basis, but of course that doesn't stop radical medical fanatics from screeching their nonsensical propaganda. Their attitude seems to be, "Don't confuse me with FACTS. I know what I know."
(Book) The War on Cancer: An Anatomy of Failure, A Blueprint for the Future
http://www.amazon.com/The-War-Cancer-Anatomy-Blueprint/dp/1402086202 (Looks like a well-researched book--I wish I could afford it)
Oh this response is priceless.
Nice one. I'm going to create my own website and then quote myself as a supporting source for all my own opinions. Lol. So what exactly are your medical/scientific credentials ?
I love the story from Dr Weil, who tries it on his dog (once) and then decides this is ample animal testing to show safety and efficacy before he moves directly onto human guinea pigs.
You want the big journals and Big Pharma to make a site proclaiming that their trillions in cancer research are all for nothing and that cheap, readily available natural products cure cancer? You want them to admit that their entire "mutated cells" thing is utter BS, and that it was a fungal invasion of said cells instead?
Really?
They will *NEVER*.
Reply author: Horrux
Replied on: 08/01/2013 10:04:39
Message:
quote:
Originally posted by Chill
Yes, it seems it would have to be applied to broken skin to recreate similar conditions. That's not a test I expect him to make.
My black salve contains DMSO. You are right, if you don't understand the impact this has, you are no scientist, not even a Sunday one. DMSO (Dimethylsulfoxide) is a simple solvent that has the fascinating ability to transport pretty much anything through the skin. In other words, it doesn't matter what state your skin is in. Also, Zinc Chloride is a simple Zinc salt. Just like table salt, or sea salt, it is an EXTREMELY stable molecule, one that cannot enter into a chemical reaction with anything that makes up living tissue.
Reply author: anivoc
Replied on: 08/02/2013 01:41:10
Message:
Chil, Bwakul, shazbot, crazyashello, hmatt843 all brand new users and all with a penchant against the use of bloodroot paste...coincidence? I think not.
This site is to share information and personal experiences...Dan makes ZERO money from this site and has no products to sell..
Some products come here and try and hype their goods...It is not allowed.. This is a place for people to come and share their experiences, success's, failures and get feedback on thoughts of how to proceed. The mantra do your own due diligence is critical..
The five entities mentioned above have come here with negative demeaning insults...old horror story post from quackwatch..etc.
Yes this is serious stuff...Too many REAL people have found alternative approaches that helped them in their battle against skin cancer here...Some of us are still searching...
You genius's should just start your own Thread where you can get together and giggle about all of the silly fools coming here with skin cancer trying to find a better way to deal with them...than the Gold Standard of the medical world...MOHS and the knife..
BTW do some research and you'll find good old doctor Mohs prior to doing the freezing microscope thing used bloodroot paste himself to identify the lesion area that needed to be removed...he'd apply 24 hours prior to surgery and then cut away the white areas that appeared the next day....
Or give Dr. Larson in Colorado a call..OK he's a horse Veterinarian he uses Bloodroot paste on horse sarcomas all the time...He must be Crazy too...
I've spoken to him and had him explain how bloodroot functions...but then again we're not horses are we...
This recent forum assault is more than a little bit weird... Not sure what the agenda is but there is a definitive and multi tiered pattern of attack going on here that I've never seen the likes of in the last 10 years of coming here..
Show your colors...
Reply author: Chill
Replied on: 08/02/2013 02:32:09
Message:
we came here because this thread was linked to from Reddit. Are you claiming we're shills? If that's the case then there's no hope for a normal discussion between human beings. Your mind is shut.
Horrux, Zinc Chloride is NOT safe to handle. If you'd like to look up the fact sheets on the chemical you'll clearly see that's it's corrosive. You are spreading harmful information.
http://nj.gov/health/eoh/rtkweb/documents/fs/2030.pdf
Reply author: Chill
Replied on: 08/02/2013 02:45:45
Message:
To be clear, this is the course this thread took: You helped Hoxsey burn her nose off, this outrageous behaviour was posted to Reddit.com as an example of the failings of a certain way of thinking, we came here from Reddit to try and spread better information. Some couldn't contain their outrage.
You can't even entertain that this might be possible. Instead, you have vague fearful paranoia that we're from the medical industry trying to protect profits. Can you put your pride aside and just maybe consider that you did something terribly wrong here? That may be too hard to do it seems.
I was trying to get a conversation going, but instead you label me a monster who only wants to reap profits from sick people. Great.
I sincerely hope no one else gets disfigured by your terrible advice, and I sincerely hope no one decides to chuck Zinc Chloride on their food seeing as it's so safe according to Horrux. Guys, please, take a step back and look at it calmly.
Reply author: julypanda
Replied on: 08/02/2013 03:36:03
Message:
Anivoc - well written !!!
Chill - we might have taken a step back and looked at it calmly as you put it, but some people on the link got very personal with their attacks , and like Anivoc says, they have not seen anything like this in 10 years. Just don't attack people for the choices they made.
I have no medical experience at all, however I have used Black Salve. i thought long and hard about all that has been written of late, and yes it is terrible that Hoxsey lost her nose through the process, and you are all claiming that it was "burnt off", but have a good look at how beautifully it has healed. Yes, I know that there is a lot missing, but there was no infection, and the edges are perfect. If this had been "burnt off" as you call it, then wouldn't she look like a burns victim with terrible scarring and redness. Had the nose grown back fully, you would all be singing its praises. However, on this occasion unfortunately it appears that the cancer was more widespread than first thought,
I had a bcc and i removed it successfully. The minute the black salve was applied you could feel it working. I had a couple of suspect lesions on my skin and applied the black salve and absolutely nothing happened - so it does not affect healthy skin.
As Anivoc says, we are simply people who wrote into a forum who are trying alternative treatments for skin cancer.
Please leave it at this now. Go back to your own forum and say what you like, but don't come on here and knock us for wanting to try alternatives
Reply author: Chill
Replied on: 08/02/2013 04:28:32
Message:
This needs to be said again: We don't mind what you do to yourselves, or the choices you make concerning your own health, everyone has the right to choose. We are against you untrained individuals offering advice that might endanger peoples lives.
The others have left already because they've said what they needed to say amd probably realise you will never admit to making an error for some bizarre but understandably human reason. The children who came here swearing didn't help matters, but people are free to say what they want to say and I'm happy that's the case. That's why I like Reddit - diversity of opinion. Just don't lump me in with them, please.
You continue to make assumptions as to how I think about matters, "had the nose grown back fully, you would be singing its praises" - a nose just doesn't grow back, Julypanda. How does a nose grow back?
How can you know for sure, really ask yourself this, how can you know for sure that it simply ate the cancer away and not normal healthy tissue? How can you know this for sure? This is a very, very important question you need to find the answer to. Because you're spreading potentially hazardous information and your pride is getting in the way of admitting it. You don't know for sure.
On that basis alone, uncertainty, you have to see that you cannot give information that might hurt people, Julypanda. This is something you don't want to hear but it needs to be said.
I am not an aweful person, a shill writing this stuff to line the pockets of the medical industry executives as some of you think for some terrible reason. I'm a dude, a normal dude, who read a forum about a lady who had a terrible reaction to some stuff that contained hazardous chemicals, made a terrible choice of coming to this forum for advice instead of a doctor, and suffered terrible consequences. I'm not sure about this stuff, I can admit it, I can also admit that I don't know enough to actually offer advice to someone going through a terrible reaction to it. And you can't live your life distrusting every single doctor. Are they all aweful, crap people July?
Don't tell me to go away just because you can't stand to hear this. Am I making no sense here?
Reply author: Bwakul
Replied on: 08/02/2013 05:38:17
Message:
I am not a reddit user but believe that Chill has given a very simple explanation for how and why other posters found this forum. Sorry, no conspiracy.
What bought me here was curiosity. A number of friends had mentioned black salve to me and I was having a look into it. I was open minded about it at first but was shocked when I stumbled on this forum. Not regarding whether it works (it possibly does In some cases) but by some of the outlandish claims without the support of evidence based research and what I viewed as dangerous medical advice being given by those less than qualified to do so. Even a MD would see the ethical issue with giving advice on an online forum without knowing a persons medical history. What if she had circulation issues, a compormised immune system or diabetes? Use of black salve without medical oversight by a long term diabetic or some basic knowledge of how to look after such a serious open wound could be disastrous.
What is frustrating is that when doing your own search on the internet, peer reviwed research published in high rated journals (if it ihas been done) is often hidden behind pay walls and subscriptions. Additionally, negative results are often not published. The general public then finds itself lost and buried beneath the mountain of easily accessible but less descipherable information put out by those marketing the product or by patient testimonials. I don't believe either of those two sources of information is sufficient for me to risk my health.
The fact you keep repeating that Moh's surgery evolved from the use of black salve to a more modern technique is telling to me, but for a diffierent reason. From this fact, I personally reach the conclusion that it was replaced with a more efficient technique or one that caused far less damage to healthy tissue. This is just the conclusion I have reached, I do not know if it is fact, but it does show that two people with the same information can reach very different conclusions. Repeating that fact as "evidence" to support your own conclusions is not so convincing for some of us. We are free to reach our own conclusions and mostly free to make decisions about our health but please think about why some of us felt the need to put a warning sign up in here for others who are "researching" the use of black salve.
Reply author: Horrux
Replied on: 08/02/2013 11:16:04
Message:
quote:
Originally posted by Chill
we came here because this thread was linked to from Reddit. Are you claiming we're shills? If that's the case then there's no hope for a normal discussion between human beings. Your mind is shut.
Horrux, Zinc Chloride is NOT safe to handle. If you'd like to look up the fact sheets on the chemical you'll clearly see that's it's corrosive. You are spreading harmful information.
http://nj.gov/health/eoh/rtkweb/documents/fs/2030.pdf
Wow, you seriously lack any knowledge of chemistry, yet you come here with your accusations. This is amazing.
The fact sheet says it's corrosive, true. If you INHALE it, it can make you COUGH. That's bad, right? It's not melting your lungs or anything, it can make you COUGH. That's why you can breathe it in 1mg/m3 concentration without any ill effect.
Zinc Chloride has about the same corrosiveness as acetic acid, which is vinegar. While I'll not be using ZnCl2 solution on my fries instead of vinegar, it is far from the poison you are making it out to be. Javel is a much more powerful corrosive.
So, yes, pure zinc chloride CAN be harmful to use, just as pure acetic acid can cause burns. But guess what, people use vinegar in a lot of things and they're fine.
Reply author: Chill
Replied on: 08/02/2013 12:20:35
Message:
Horrux, what are your credentials in chemistry?
The fact sheet also advises in the case of skin contact, remove all contact and seek medical advice immediately.
Reply author: Chill
Replied on: 08/02/2013 12:37:28
Message:
We're going along a good fact finding mission here, I like it. Acetic acid: it's a component of vinegar - meaning around 8% of vinegar is made up of Acetic acid - not PURE acetic acid as Horrux implied. What percentage of zinc chloride comprises black salve? What's the safety levels, and how can you guys be sure that the black salve you purchase contains a safe amount?
Now just remember, Horrux first stated Zinc Chloride is safe and inert, just like table salt. We've determined it's highly corrosive to skin contact. PURE zinc chloride.
Black salve contains a percentage of zinc chloride. Who's determining what that safe limit is? If I go and buy a black salve, off of amazon for example, how can I be assured that the amount of zinc chloride it contains is at a safe level?
Reply author: Horrux
Replied on: 08/02/2013 12:53:45
Message:
quote:
Originally posted by Chill
Horrux, what are your credentials in chemistry?
The fact sheet also advises in the case of skin contact, remove all contact and seek medical advice immediately.
Just some college education. My credentials are of being a biologist and an economist, and thus do not relate directly to chemistry. I also tested 174 on an IQ test, that's a credential too, right?
Reply author: Chill
Replied on: 08/02/2013 13:24:33
Message:
I think you can be intelligent and misinformed at the same time. Perhaps a high IQ can sometimes be detrimental to your ability to entertain self-doubt. Especially when you haven't mixed with people of a similar or greater level of intelligence on a regular basis, you perhaps get a detrimental sense of superiority. It's not an easy situation to deal with.
Reply author: Horrux
Replied on: 08/02/2013 17:16:21
Message:
quote:
Originally posted by Chill
I think you can be intelligent and misinformed at the same time. Perhaps a high IQ can sometimes be detrimental to your ability to entertain self-doubt. Especially when you haven't mixed with people of a similar or greater level of intelligence on a regular basis, you perhaps get a detrimental sense of superiority. It's not an easy situation to deal with.
You are right, it is not. It's like living on a planet of the apes or at least, being perpetually surrounded by morons. But I got over my sense of superiority long ago, for it was a failing. I'm better than that now. :D
Reply author: anivoc
Replied on: 08/02/2013 19:02:48
Message:
Bwakul what outlandish claims are you speaking of? Can you cite one?
I am a moderator here and I try to stay up on current post and delete spam and "sneaky advertising" There are several very active members here who are not shy to call BS when they see it..
No one I know has made any outlandish "claims" and as far as advice ..maybe some have...I personally am happy to give my opinion but ALWAYS say do your own due dilligence..I did...
Guaranteed I know a lot more about Bloodroot than any of the new crew of nay sayers that have come recently...A few years before this site came about I talked to dozen of people around the world who had personally used it...100's of hours or reading accounts and research...hunting down real people with real names and phone numbers and had conversations before ever actually trying it on myself...
I have posted very graphic pictures of my experience and my results..I am real..they are real...
To say it is "crazy as Hell" is ignorant...All procedures come with risk and bloodroot paste is a serious route to take...not something to jump into without understanding the possible consequences..
The tone the 5 aforementioned "new comers" has set is far from informed or realistic...definitely in some cases leaning on out right rude and obnoxious.
If you have genuine sincere questions, opinions, personal experience or valid info bring it on...Broad sweeping, narrow minded assumptions, accusations and conclusions bring nothing to benefit the group here.
Reply author: Bwakul
Replied on: 08/02/2013 20:55:07
Message:
I'm sorry, but you are still using patient testimonials alone as your evidence. No basic science. No pathology. No double blind clinical studies.
Outlandish claims......well pretty much everything written by djt10. And overall, the idea that the black salve has only destroyed cancer cells. This is "possible", but not one of you have any pathology results to state that as fact. You may have got all the cancer (or not). But You really do not know, as you would with MOHs surgery, whether she had healthy tissue destroyed and possibly could have avoided such extensive and expensive plastic surgery.
You've picked up on one word I used and focused in on that but no one will respond to our main point. Do you think it is responsible to give medical advice to someome online, when you are lacking medical training AND know little about that persons medical history (including pathology and any other diagnostic results). ??
Reply author: Bwakul
Replied on: 08/02/2013 21:02:09
Message:
As an example, lets look again at the study which looked at survival rates and chemotherapy. The whole 2% thing.
If we relied on patient testimonials there would be 1000's who could claim chemotherapy saved their lives. And maybe it has, or extended their lives substantially. But what that epidemiological study seemed to find was that overall it only improved survival rates by 2 %.
Reply author: anivoc
Replied on: 08/02/2013 21:43:11
Message:
quote:
Originally posted by Bwakul
I'm sorry, but you are still using patient testimonials alone as your evidence. No basic science. No pathology. No double blind clinical studies.
Outlandish claims......well pretty much everything written by djt10. And overall, the idea that the black salve has only destroyed cancer cells. This is "possible", but not one of you have any pathology results to state that as fact. You may have got all the cancer (or not). But You really do not know, as you would with MOHs surgery, whether she had healthy tissue destroyed and possibly could have avoided such extensive and expensive plastic surgery.
You've picked up on one word I used and focused in on that but no one will respond to our main point. Do you think it is responsible to give medical advice to someome online, when you are lacking medical training AND know little about that persons medical history (including pathology and any other diagnostic results). ??
OK I'll bite...
Let's start with the most relevant question first...
"Do you think it is responsible to give medical advice to someome online, when you are lacking medical training AND know little about that persons medical history (including pathology and any other diagnostic results). ?
Absolutely not it would be irresponsible... No one is giving "Medical advice" here we are sharing our personal experiences, strength and hope and knowledge therein that we have personally gained from our personal research and experimentation....
No one here is impersonating or alluding to the idea that they are medically trained doctors...People come here for a multitude of reasons but this is an internet forum and like anything on the net you better check your facts multiple places before jumping off the bridge with your internet made wings...
This particular thread started by Hoxsey starts with her already in deep trouble treating herself asking for advice...not medical advice...personal experience advice. From there on people chimed in with how they dealt with bloodroot.
As Dan states in his purpose for this forum "Welcome! Skin cancer now affects millions of people worldwide, many chronically. There are good reasons to believe that skin cancer can be prevented by diet and nutrition, that natural healing is possible, and that the best treatment may be a home remedy! These forums are for people with skin cancer and others that care to share questions, concerns, ideas, and experiences. We want better answers for skin cancer. We want to hear your story."
What he states is all true...Diet and home remedies may help in the eradication of various forms of the many skin cancers...
I don't know how much you know ...but I think you know a lot less than you think you do...
Most of us here are real common folks with real skin cancers ...It sucks and it sucks way worse than someone that hasn't got them can understand.
We're the ones that have spent thousands of dollars on painful and disfiguring Medical treatments only to have the dang things come back in a few years...Mohs surgery..the gold standard of the dermatologist... is far from perfect and though the best way to treat Basal cell it doesn't always get it all..
There is so much the derms still do not know...
I am one of those that have gone traditional route, spent thousands of dollars and now do my best to avoid them because their ways don't work any better than the alternative ways.
Do you know what Picato gel is?
Lo and behold...it is made from Petty spurge discussed here before Picato was approved by the FDA..
THis place is an awesome resource for thousands of people that are going through the torture mill of FDA approved Effudex..
Trust the doctors? seriously... Effudex is torture
Then there's fluorouracil...I remember in the 80's being told by one derm to treat my whole face...only to be told 15 years later by the same derm ..Oh I no longer recommend fluorouracil they think it might actually cause an increase in skin cancers...Wonderful.
Then there's the Pathology you ask about... There have been no double blind studies ..why you ask...well it is an ugly truth...MONEY
It cost a lot..and there is no one that can patent this so why invest in the test?
From http://www.bevanpotter.com/herbalhistory.html on this complicated dilemma...
What studies have been done by modern medicine to demonstrate that these Black Salves are a proven skin cancer treatment system?
"In the orthodox community this question refers to a "longitudinal, peer-reviewed, double-blind study with carefully monitored control groups, using strict statistics measures..." bla, bla, bla, bla. We believe in the time-honored tradition of empiricism. It is the fundamental principle underlying the development of homeopathic, naturopathic, and herbalist formulas, even entire volumes of formularies (pharmacopoeia), not to mention the healing techniques of dozens of other modalities. A formula is proven to be effective and safe, in our minds, when it has been tested upon thousands of individuals over a period in excess of one century (that's 100 years) and has been found to repeatedly, thousands of times over, cure legions of patients with little or no side effects. Such is the history of escharotics, the illustrious herbal tradition from whose roots Cansema has sprung. It is the foundation of our South American medical herb formulas, and virtually all herb-based products.
The pecularities of modern food and drug law, based as they are on 19th century "atomist" theories on pharmacology, have totally turned the free market on its head - and this is something most people either don't know, or don't take the time to figure out.
The simple fact is, escharotic preparations are not sufficiently proprietary for anyone to get a useful patent on them. No drug company on earth is interested in a compound if they can't get an enforceable patent on it. And why? Because no drug company on earth ---- no, make that no intelligent human being on earth -- would ever invest the $100 million plus it takes to get "drug approval" in the U.S. and other major Western countries without the reasonable assurance a patent provides THAT THEIR INVESTMENT WOULD BE PROTECTED FROM THE ENCROACHMENT OF COMPETITORS!
The fact is, medicine today -- whether you live in Perth, Edinburgh, Nassau, or Los Angeles, is far more about the dynamics of making money, than it is about doing what is best for the patient. Only when you can clearly view this industry from the inside does the intensity of this concept become so solidified and crystal clear that you would no more question it than you would think to doubt the curvature of the Earth.
Like the Mother Goose story about the Emperor who wore no clothes, the masses of those living in Western society live behind the veneer. Only when one stands back and innocently looks at the structure of modern health care for what it is -- only when one takes the time to follow the money trail, can you understand why the very best products on the market have no chance of becoming mainstream if the most powerful interests in health care cannot figure out a way of cornering the market. It can be a "cornering" of short duration (a patent in the U.S., for instance, lasts 17 years), but it must be a turf that can be legally protected, with artificially high margins, for at pre-calculated period of high, sustained profitabilit." Source: Alpha Omega Labs
Reply author: anivoc
Replied on: 08/02/2013 21:55:00
Message:
It was a DOCTOR that developed Black Salve.....
Skin Cancer - Black Salve
Around the mid-nineteenth century, Native American herbs became very popular in Europe and a Dr. J.W. Fell, working at Middlesex Hospital in London developed a paste made of bloodroot, zinc chloride, flour, and water. This was directly applied as a paste to a malignant growth and generally destroyed the tumor within two to four weeks.
Bloodroot
Bloodroot (Sanguinarea canadensis) is one of the most beautiful eastern North American woodland herbs and was commonly used to treat cancer by the Native Americans. Since that time it has been identified as a primary ingredient in most escharotic salves and pastes, as these are called, used for the treatment of cancer. The alkaloid, sanguinarine has been indeed found to possess powerful anti-cancer properties.
The Eclectics medical doctors of the 19th century, especially Dr. Eli Jones, specialized in the treatment of cancer emphasizing internal treatment and lifestyle changes but evidently used escharotic Black salves and ointments with success. The late Dr. Raymond Christopher created a Black Ointment drawing salve that contained potent anti-cancer herbs such as poke root and black walnut bark. Many consider this to be only for drawing out slivers and such embedded in the flesh, but in fact, the salve is also used for drawing out cancers and tumors. In recent times various formulas for the salve has been sold or given away by various clandestine individuals who are mostly motivated by the desire to help provide patients with a less invasive and harmful method to remove cancers from various parts of the body.
One of the most startling facts is that the use of escharotics has been and continues to be an accepted and recognized medical procedure. A medical text entitled Chemosurgery: Microscopically controlled Surgery for Skin Cancer was written by Dr. Frederic E. Mohs, B.Sc., M.D. and last published by Charles Thomas in 1978. It uses the same basic escharotic paste used by Eli Jones, Hoxsey, and others for application for topical application for the removal of various cancers, molls, warts and other growths and excrescences. Dr. Mohs was clinical Professor of Surgery at the University of Wisconsin Medical School
However, of the modern researchers, the two most respected and well-known authorities in the use of this approach were Dr. J. Weldon Fell and Frederic E. Mohs, MD, both of the United States.
Fell was a faculty member of New York University and later was one of the founders of the New York Academy of Medicine. In the early 1850s, he moved to London and built up a very successful cancer treatment practice based on escharotic therapy using bloodroot (Sanguinaria canadensis) as the herbal base. He published his results
Frederic Mohs
extensively. We know today that the alkaloids in bloodroot do indeed have a strong anti-tumor effect.
Frederic Mohs called his approach chemosurgery and used a fixative paste. His was more an integrative approach that combined the use of the escharotic paste with surgical tumor removal and analysis, rather than allowing for the sloughing off of the eschar. His contribution is immense as he put the procedure on a very sound, scientific footing, with a tremendous amount of research that spanned decades. The soundness of his approach was underscored in a 1990 report that stated he had a verifiable and documented 99% success rate in his treatment of skin cancers!
As recently as the late 1960's Vipont pharmaceuticals under the name of Vipont Chemical Co. of Fort Collins, Colorado, was formed by a rodeo cowboy named Howard McCrorey and two friends specifically to research and develop the Black salve for FDA approval. At one point they informally sent it off to an investigator of Mayo clinic to be tested for its efficacy in treating cancer. The investigator sent back two letters stating he had not tested anything that even came close to the anti-tumor activity of the Black salve.
In order to keep the company viable they performed various contract work. As a result they brought a toothpaste to market called Viadent which utilized the ingredients of their Black salve to maintain dental hygiene and prevent and cure periodontal disease. It was and still is very effective and the company was eventually bought up by Colgate who is the manufacturer of Viadent.
Besides its topical use, there is a tradition of internal use for cancer and all infectious and inflammatory diseases. Vipont conducted an LD/50 toxicity study of the salve for internal use. It was reported that the LD/50 was around 700mg per kilogram of body weight. Since the recommended dose for internal use is no greater than 250mg, at this level toxicity is very low. However, it should never be taken on an empty stomach as it can be too irritating. The salve can be taken in a 00-sized gelatin capsule as it is taken each day.
Vipont and company has documented the use of the salve for a wide variety of problems, ranging from the removal of warts, moles and skin cancers to other internal cancers, colds, eye problems (diluted in a saline solution, one part salve to 1000 parts water), staff infections, impotency, skin diseases, gastrointestinal inflammations and other conditions too numerous to list. One representative who reported this story and was on the Board of Directors of Vipont Chemical Company, Clark Bigham stated that "my inclination is to try it for just about any known condition other than stomach ulcers and auto-immune diseases."
Reply author: anivoc
Replied on: 08/02/2013 21:58:58
Message:
Wow thanks for pushing ...The net has grown and more old data is available CHECK THIS OUT read it and recognise the truth....
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/60916
Arch Dermatol. 1976 Feb;112(2):211-5.
Chemosurgery for skin cancer: fixed tissue and fresh tissue techniques.
Mohs FE.
Abstract
Complete microscopical control of the excision of cancer of the skin is achieved by removing tissues layer by layer and examining the undersurface of each layer by means of frozen sections. If the cancer is extensive and complicated or if it is of a type readily spread over an excisional surface, the tissues are fixed in situ with zinc chloride prior to excision (chemosurgery, fixed tissue technique). If the cancer is not too extensive or complicated, the tissues are excised in the fresh, unfixed state (chemosurgery, fresh tissue technique). Both techniques are highly reliable; for example, in two consecutive series of basal cell carcinomas treated chemosurgically, the five-year rate of cure was 99.3% for the 9,351 lesions removed by the fixed tissue technique and 97% for the 127 lesions removed by the fresh tissue technique.
So there is the TRUTH in Black and white...disgusting!!!! 9,351 lesions tested... 99.3% cure rate using The hideous Zinc Chloride "Fixed tissue" and 97% cure rate using the "fresh tissue technique" The frozen slices under microscope.....Hmmmm why in the world would the medical community use the lesser successful method? Money doesn't talk it swears...
Rub a little zinc Chloride on the lesion have the patient come back the next day remove all the white tissue... or bring in a specialist and start slicing and dicing ...for hour$$$$ ...take the sample to the technician...he freezes it..slices it real thin then the derms look at it under a microscope for irregular cells..Oops still some bad cells in the margins we have to take some more skin.... Here we go again...this process can take several hours...I know..I've been there done that...I even convinced the Derm to let me meet the technician and watch him freeze and slice my specimen...quite the handy dandy micro meat slicer... and quite the money making machine..The whole procedure that is..
Lets see rub some paste on the lesion, cover it...24 hours later pull off the bandage ..cut away all tissue that has turned white
Total billable hours maybe 1 hour..and no special "technician with a zippy zoomy machine to pay for..AND 99% cure rate..
The Freeze method at minimum 3 to 4 billable hours plus the tech / lab fees and a 97% cure rate...Makes sense to me. Dollars and Cents! ..THose crazy fools using zinc chloride are out of their minds....or maybe they're not...just saying
Reply author: cheryl21
Replied on: 08/02/2013 22:54:53
Message:
Anivoc, I think your posts are great but, unfortunately the recent visitors to this forum aren't really interested in listening to anything that you have to say. They haven't come here to discuss anything, but rather to lecture. There is nothing positive about their posts at all.
To Chill & co. you are talking to people here who have used black salve, ignore what they say, and yet you think you know all about it.
I have had two BCC's and one SCC cut out of my face by plastic surgeons. I was never game to use black salve from the negative reports of it on the internet but finally decided it was worth trying as an alternative to being cut up once again and used it on an SCC on my arm and BCC on my face. I am over the moon with the results and will NEVER go near a doctor to be carved up and mutilated by them again.
You seem to be unaware that every time a doctor cuts out a skin cancer they are not just cutting out the cancerous cells, but also a massive amount of good skin just to be sure they have got it all. Google it on the internet and have a look at just how much healthy skin they cut out - it will just about make you sick. Black salve does not destroy healthy skin, but only the cancerous tissue.
The results from my use of black salve is that it is far less disfiguring than what is achieved by the expert doctors, mainly because of the reconstruction the plastic surgeon has to do from removing such a massive amount of skin and the consequent distortion to your anatomy, particularly in an area that we really care about - such as the face!
Reply author: Bwakul
Replied on: 08/02/2013 23:09:10
Message:
I definitely do not know a lot about skin cancer, nor the modern or alternative treatments for skin cancer. I never claimed to. I stated my major issue. However, I understand that there is a fine line between sharing information and personal experience and offering medical advice. I feel that line was crossed at times. I continue to have a pesonal interest in this area though. My brother just had a BCC removed. He is very young and I am concerned for him. Our neighbour just died of melanoma at age 50 and both my sister in law and mother in law have both had extensive treatment for melanoma quite recently. This is something that affects so many people and I find myself paranoid about any changes to my husbands and my own skin.
I actually do apologise if I have been obnoxious. I think you would be surprised if you were aware of my background and personal situation.
Your post made me laugh a little, as I am the less than enthusiastic audience to these arguments (lectures) pretty much daily from my husband. His whole world view is based around a fixed reference point, that "Government Lies". He is a very intelligent and creative person, but we approach things from a very different angle. I am distrustful of government and corporations but strongly support evidence based medicine.. I am hoping to speak with my sister in law about black salve. She is a naturopath, with an undergrad in science, a doctorate in herbal medicine has lectured both natural medicine snd medical students at a a university. Her thesis was on the use of herbal medicine concurrently with conventional medical practise and she has spent years involved with research into herbal medicine, I think many of you here would find her input of interest ?
After hearing what you have been through, I can definitely understand why my posts have offended you. I have been through similar experiences my entire life with the medical establishment. I have had serious and chronic health problems since I was a child. Incidently, my experience with alternative therapies has also been less than satisfactory, I do support and often encourage people to be their own best advocate when it comes to their health.
I was also the manager of a research lab where our Professor was seen as a radical by the rest of the medical establishment. I disagree with many of the methods and conclusions of my husband and my boss, but I also have a lot of respect for them. I think we need people like them. They are usually extremely creative, and push the boundaries, and this is when we make huge leaps in science. Visionaries are often not so great with the details, and I think great things are possible if these rare people are supported by a team of more detail oriented people. Don't even get me started on the process of clinical trials and dealing with the federal regulatory agency. Or the difficulties of funding and commercialisation. This is what I dealt with daily.
So, no. I do not see everything in black and white. Maybe you could also refrain from the personal attacks. You are just as guilty of this as the "nay-Sayers".
EDIT...
You've added some posts while I was writing this. I've only quickly read through it but I have some questions. I already knew black salve had been used historically, but it would be great if you could find some more research feedback from people like Moh's beyond the 70s. Is he still alive? Why did the chemosurgery progress to current methods? Was it because patients had better cosmetic outcomes and there was more assurances that the cancer was removed? I don't know, I am just asking the question.
Reply author: anivoc
Replied on: 08/02/2013 23:17:33
Message:
No personal attack just pointing out the obvious over 10 years posting here and suddenly 5 people show up blatantly bashing bloodroot all within a few weeks of each other..coincidence...maybe...I just don't know...it was weird at best...Sorry if I offended you...but the comments coming from the "Nay sayers" got several of us who have been there done that a little upset......the only good that came from it was forcing me to take a fresh look for hard evidence..which I stumbled upon today...you like black and white proof...I provided it here http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/60916
Slam dunk Zinc Chloride has been tested and proven on over 9000 lesions 99% cure rate...hmmmm
Reply author: Bwakul
Replied on: 08/02/2013 23:21:38
Message:
See my edit in my last post. Is there anything more current than 40 years ago? And aren't those statistics the same or better for surgery? Possibly with better cosmetic results? Happy to be informed and change my mind on this.
I still don't see the slam dunk on the question of whether it destroys healthy tissue? Which has been my argument all along. I have never argued it doesn't kill cancer tissue.
And I'm sorry, but you did make personal attacks. Equal to or worse than anything I wrote.
Reply author: Bwakul
Replied on: 08/02/2013 23:45:40
Message:
quote:
Originally posted by cheryl21
You seem to be unaware that every time a doctor cuts out a skin cancer they are not just cutting out the cancerous cells, but also a massive amount of good skin just to be sure they have got it all. Google it on the internet and have a look at just how much healthy skin they cut out - it will just about make you sick. Black salve does not destroy healthy skin, but only the cancerous tissue.
Most people are aware that surgeons use margins of healthy tissue.
Where is the evidence that black salve does not affect healthy tissue. I think this is the main point of contention.
Reply author: Bwakul
Replied on: 08/03/2013 00:07:55
Message:
I'm going to leave you guys alone now, I've just realised you are all dealing with something horrible and Hoxsey has not asked to be "defended". If you're happy with your choices, and the black salve has offered the right answers for you, the best of luck to you. I hope Myself and my family and friends do not have to suffer any more from this horrible condition and I hope the same for you and yours.
If my sister in law (the Dr. And herbalist) has anything interesting to add, I might post that information if it is useful.
Reply author: anivoc
Replied on: 08/03/2013 02:53:14
Message:
Interestingly I decided to see what was being said on reddit.
I searched bloodroot paste and zinc chloride and found NOTHING linking back to this site...
Chill would you mind sharing the link to the post you are speaking of on reddit that links back to this forum?
Reply author: Bwakul
Replied on: 08/03/2013 03:28:28
Message:
quote:
Originally posted by muderousegg
http://www.reddit.com/r/MorbidReality/comments/1j3guo/girl_uses_black_salve_on_face_and_the_outcome_is/
you are in this post, you guys are insane. totally insane and delusional and dangerous.
Besides the thread mentioned above, there are at least 2 other threads with much harsher criticism than anyone has posted here,
Reply author: Chill
Replied on: 08/03/2013 03:53:27
Message:
Anivoc, I've definitely been offended by the accusations leveled at me. I would like an honest discussion, but it's difficult when the person you're expressing your opposing view to takes that as a personal attack and gets nasty.
Here's something you're not going to like, so just be prepared for it and please understand that I'm not attacking you personally, I'm simply pointing out an error. I don't have an agenda etc. etc. etc.
You've found Moh's 1976 publication. His process with Zinc Chloride was a little different from the process you guys use:
He injected a controlled amount of zinc chloride as a fixative, CUT AWAY the tissue, examined it under a microscope with a very clever plan of determining how much cancer still needed to be cut away. The process required years of training.
His use of Zinc Chloride has been replaced with freezing the excised skin.
Anivoc, honestly ask yourself if this process is equivalent to the process you guys use at home, and that you're allowed to claim the 99% rate as being yours to claim. Doesn't that seem a little disingenuous?
Here's some historical context for you:
http://books.google.co.za/books?id=u_rYwMlRogQC&pg=PA2&lpg=PA2&dq=mohs+inject+zinc+chloride&source=bl&ots=P2Lc4ue6GT&sig=ZzLx0RehFGR72MS69vtO2QewTX0&hl=en&sa=X&ei=msH8Ua_bO4yEhQfNgIH4DQ&ved=0CCsQ6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=mohs%20inject%20zinc%20chloride&f=false
I'm really sorry your argument doesn't work out, and I hope you don't take it personally. Just try and think of it clearly without letting emotional fervour cloud your judgment.
Please guys, if someone comes here with a post asking if severe facial swelling is normal, just tell them to perhaps go see a doctor?
Reply author: anivoc
Replied on: 08/03/2013 03:55:45
Message:
Thanks Bwakul
So basically a bunch of lay people who don't have skin cancer expounding on their ignorance. Really disturbing...reminds me of 12 year old kids ganging up on the weaker ones....
So this is where this all came from...
Only God knows for sure but based on thousands of videos on youtube of people using bloodroot paste I am going to venture an informed guess that had Hoxsey chosen Mohs surgery they would have had to take every bit as much tissue and maybe more...
We'll never know ...There is a minute amount of "bad press" and thousands of real people with real pictures and videos all over the net indicating there are a whole lot of people that have successfully used blood root paste. Using it is not for the faint of heart...
I have personally applied to a non exposed area of my skin for 24 hours with Zero effect on healthy skin...on a basal cell lesion using the same paste WHAM! in minutes of application it was tearing it up..
Reply author: anivoc
Replied on: 08/03/2013 04:19:00
Message:
Chill it appears we have gotten off on the wrong foot...Not all of the people that came here recently were as rude as others nevertheless it put several of us on the defense..
The link you posted is great...
The exact page that comes up when you click on the link says mohs applied a zinc chloride "paste" and that it had to be left overnight causing the patients GREAT pain...later when rushing to do a video he did the frozen tissue thing and decided it was better... I doubt Mohs was "only in it for the money"..He was a courageous medical innovator, the likes that could not operate legally in todays litigious world..
All you have to do is search youtube and bloodroot paste and you will find hundreds of testimonials ...a few from sellers but mostly from people like me and the other people here who came to the conclusion Bloodroot paste was a viable consideration in dealing with our skin cancer lesions...If you browse topical info you will see this site is not JUST Bloodroot but hundreds of approaches to deal with skin cancer...Bloodroot paste and Zinc Chloride are just one tool in a huge toolbox of choices and approaches...
The medical world is not a perfect system and the way it has been set up restricts what doctors like Mohs used to do...add to that the fear of lawsuits and you have a tight bottleneck for progress and experimentation.
Reply author: Bwakul
Replied on: 08/03/2013 04:27:24
Message:
I only saw the reddit posts because of the link posted on this forum. It appears that a reddit post will end up with the majority leaning one way or another and differing views get voted or shouted down. It also depends on where something is posted, for example whether it is in the alt-med sub-eddit versus a skeptics sub-reddit.
There were a few comments in there from doctors too...this one for example...which was also posted on this forum.
"I had a fairly young patient once who used "Blood Root Salve" for her breast cancer. Continued to grow until it replaced her whole breast. By the time she came to a real doc, it had invaded the ribs into the pleural cavity & all the breast skin was gone. Necrotic tumor was growing out of her armpit like a cauliflower. It bled & oozed & smelled so horrible that the Hospice House had to kick her out. She was so skinny & the tumor on her chest was just huge sucking up all her nutrients & life. She hurt like hell. She didn't tolerate chemo & antiestrogens didn't do much. As a desperate measure we irradiated it which slowed the bleeding & debulked as much as possible surgically without leaving to much of her heart & lungs exposed. Helped the pain a lot & improved the smell enough that her family could visit."
Source: http://www.reddit.com/r/skeptic/comments/1j47pd/woman_chooses_altmed_instead_of_outpatient/cbb45p5
He writes 3 long posts (in yellow) in response to a nurses post which is at the top of the linked page and makes some good points.
Reply author: anivoc
Replied on: 08/03/2013 04:38:39
Message:
In regards to what we say when someone comes here asking for opinions from others who have EXPERIENCE....why in the world would we not share what we experienced...Do you really think the dermatologist would know how to answer that question better than we could?
Trying to understand your perspective...like we did her a disservice telling her that swelling was normal... it's what happens when you use Blood root paste. She asked, Bonder and I replied
None of us could have known the severity of her situation until she posted pictures later... even then the deed was already done ...getting to a dermatologist at that point would have had no effect on the end result or lessened what was already being eradicated.
As Doctor Larsen explained it to me ...these lesions are undetectable by our immune system...They have a sac or veil around them that hides them...when we apply bloodroot paste it removes the veil and exposes the lesion as an invader..the white blood cells attack and the body expels the invader...
It is not the blood root or zinc chloride that do the killing, it is the white blood cells doing their job... By the time she posted her question their work was done. It was then just a matter of time for the body to eject the dead tissue ala swelling and puss.
Reply author: anivoc
Replied on: 08/03/2013 04:53:29
Message:
I read the link and it is about a woman who used bloodroot paste for a breast cancer...
I chased another link about the down side of Bloodroot paste and it was about a man with melanoma.. Though there are mentions of people beating Melanoma with it...they are questionable and unproven to my knowledge.
For sure Dan ( owner of topical info) makes it clear that the alternative therapies discussed here are for NON MELANOMA "SKIN CANCERS" if you have Melanoma get yourself to your doctor ASAP...Always get suspicious lesions biopsied to confirm they are not Melanoma...
Reply author: Bwakul
Replied on: 08/03/2013 05:05:56
Message:
I did read his disclaimer, I had not noticed it at the bottom of the page. Good to see.
It would be good to see an additional warning there for those with a damaged circulatory system. Being a type 1 diabetic of 30 years. The use of something like black salve would be disastrous for me. I form eschers spontaneously from minor damage to my skin and a wound only a couple mm across cam take 6 months to heal. Too bad for me, as I could completely overlook a possible skin cancer as I have several wounds that won't heal at any one time.
Reply author: djt10
Replied on: 08/03/2013 13:01:06
Message:
My black salve formula, and the light salve used with it to draw out toxins and help with the healing process came from a 150-year-old book owned by a chiropractor, so that formula using bloodroot, zinc chloride and flour, was published in the mid-eighteen hundreds, so it obviously wasn't "created" by Dr. Fell. It was published in our county paper in 1981, The Yakima Herald-Republic in a story about a sting operation to "catch" people using it--but the published the full formulas and instructions, so there are people all over this area who have used it including my family since 1986. We do this in private. Most people have been diagnosed with cancer, but don't return to doctors after using it. There is a good deal of information on bloodroot--it's not "caustic or corrosive" to healthy tissue. In fact they've used it in toothpaste. And all anyone has to do is some basic research on zinc chloride to find out it is not corrosive to healthy tissues, the only organic material it breaks down, as I've aleady said, is silk and cellulose, which is closely related to chitin, found in fungal and cancer cell walls, which would explain how it helps to expose cancer cells to the immune system, although there is some research that bloodroot does selectively have an impact on cancer cells. I'm going to post this link again to the medical studies on bloodroot: http://truthquest2.com/cancersalves.htm However, we've used black salve for numerous conditions.
Reply author: djt10
Replied on: 08/03/2013 14:13:47
Message:
By the way, medical doctors in the Philippines have integrated black salve use for cancer into their conventional medical treatments after observing it's effectiveness. It is now part of mainstream medicine there, so anyone wanting to be under a licensed physician's care and can afford the trip can go there for treatment. Also, I've seen one failure. I gave some to a woman with metastasized stage 4 lung cancer, but her immune system was so far gone that despite a new application daily, her body couldn't mount a response to it other than a little redness where she pricked the skin with a sterile needle to help it penetrate through the skin. She died a week later of cancer-related seizures.
Reply author: Control
Replied on: 08/07/2013 09:28:54
Message:
Hello, everyone. I'm from reddit, too. Chill has already said a lot of what I would have said, but I wanted to give my two cents.
Firstly, this forum does have a noticeable disclaimer saying to seek professional help for treatments. So from their perspective, these people on the forum are just people who have had success or looking for alternatives to the choice they already know about, and wanted to share their experiences and spread the word of alt medicine. That's natural to want to share things with others that work. I find nothing wrong with this forum itself,nor do I find faults with the members of the discussion for the most part.
The original poster clearly had access to medical attention, but made the conscious decision to look elsewhere for the moment. She's a grown woman, that's her choice. Great! Her decision didn't turn out the best, did it? I at least was hoping to see more members clarify the seriousness of what was happening. When a normal person sees something like that, it's time to recommend a professional- it's time to say "look, I have had positive experiences with alt med but clearly it's not working out for you - I cannot give more testimony as I fear it will alter your judgment on what you should do with that serious situation. Stop posting and go to the doctor immediately!
For all I know, alt med seems to work for some, and not for others. I just feel the evidence is there that supports going to the doctor is going to result in a better ending the majority of the time. But hey- keep spreading the news about alt med, love that freedom to do so! Just make it clear before you converse with these wide eyed health seekers that while it worked for some, you cannot says with a clear conscious that it will work for them. Remind them it is a gamble with their well-being, probably similar to how some of you view modern medicine. (Which is true, too, but research is simply going to take sides with modern medicine. If there is truth to alt med, it will eventually be universally known. Humans are cool like that in large demographics - they end up with what works. while there may be many intriguing truths you could tell me regarding alt med, something tells me modern medicine will be the drug of choice, pun absolutely intended - for a very long time.
Stay healthy, everyone!
Reply author: BlondeAmbition3
Replied on: 08/07/2013 22:26:25
Message:
quote:
Originally posted by Control
Hello, everyone. I'm from reddit, too. Chill has already said a lot of what I would have said, but I wanted to give my two cents.
Firstly, this forum does have a noticeable disclaimer saying to seek professional help for treatments. So from their perspective, these people on the forum are just people who have had success or looking for alternatives to the choice they already know about, and wanted to share their experiences and spread the word of alt medicine. That's natural to want to share things with others that work. I find nothing wrong with this forum itself,nor do I find faults with the members of the discussion for the most part.
The original poster clearly had access to medical attention, but made the conscious decision to look elsewhere for the moment. She's a grown woman, that's her choice. Great! Her decision didn't turn out the best, did it? I at least was hoping to see more members clarify the seriousness of what was happening. When a normal person sees something like that, it's time to recommend a professional- it's time to say "look, I have had positive experiences with alt med but clearly it's not working out for you - I cannot give more testimony as I fear it will alter your judgment on what you should do with that serious situation. Stop posting and go to the doctor immediately!
For all I know, alt med seems to work for some, and not for others. I just feel the evidence is there that supports going to the doctor is going to result in a better ending the majority of the time. But hey- keep spreading the news about alt med, love that freedom to do so! Just make it clear before you converse with these wide eyed health seekers that while it worked for some, you cannot says with a clear conscious that it will work for them. Remind them it is a gamble with their well-being, probably similar to how some of you view modern medicine. (Which is true, too, but research is simply going to take sides with modern medicine. If there is truth to alt med, it will eventually be universally known. Humans are cool like that in large demographics - they end up with what works. while there may be many intriguing truths you could tell me regarding alt med, something tells me modern medicine will be the drug of choice, pun absolutely intended - for a very long time.
Stay healthy, everyone!
Excellent advise. I'm certainly listening and will be certain to apply these cautions you so wisely suggested Control. :)
Reply author: Deb
Replied on: 08/10/2013 07:34:46
Message:
I don't visit this page for a while and I suddenly see some abusive posts! Discussion - YES! Personal comments - NO!
What I have to offer is this - When talking to my dermatologist about black salve, she told me that a doctor in the hospital had given a presentation about 3 of his patients who had done 'do-it-yourself surgery'with the salve. The outcome he delivered was that 1 patient had been cured, one patient had a return of the cancer and the other patient had not bothered to come back to the clinic (probably cured rather than died, I think). The doctors (inc the dermatologist)I have shown my disappearing lesions to are puzzled but they look at my photographic evidence alongside and they acknowledge that something is definitely being removed. I too am regarding cancer in a holistic way and am using the salve alongside other positive health/lifestyle choices. I am also now having mistletoe therapy to boost my immune system. The doctor who administers this is also a conventionally trained doctor as well as an anthrosopic doctor. In some cases, mistletoe is available on the National Health Service in the UK. My doctor is also a little frustrated that funding for cancer research is mainly channeled away from 'alternative' or 'natural' cures. He has seen first-hand the mistletoe working.
Reply author: dan
Replied on: 08/11/2013 00:40:07
Message:
I just want to say how thankful I am to the many posters on this board. Overall, what a wonderful and caring group of people that post here! I can't say the recent flurry of personal attacks helped anything, but the ensuing discussion was welcome.
No one here thinks it turned out great for Hoxsey. Her experience left us with questions such as Does a black salve destroy only the cancer or does it also eat into normal tissue in some people? Does it affect different people, perhaps like those with diabetes, differently? Maybe we will find those answers, but I think it is important that her very real experience is there for others to consider as we look for better ways to deal with our skin cancers.
Reply author: Horrux
Replied on: 08/14/2013 06:05:39
Message:
quote:
Originally posted by Bwakulquote:
Originally posted by cheryl21
You seem to be unaware that every time a doctor cuts out a skin cancer they are not just cutting out the cancerous cells, but also a massive amount of good skin just to be sure they have got it all. Google it on the internet and have a look at just how much healthy skin they cut out - it will just about make you sick. Black salve does not destroy healthy skin, but only the cancerous tissue.
Most people are aware that surgeons use margins of healthy tissue.
Where is the evidence that black salve does not affect healthy tissue. I think this is the main point of contention.
Surgeons use margins of healthy tissue on your FACE, but not when you have the cancer on your chest. At least, such was my case. Infinite stupidity and blatant disregard for what is best for the patient.
Reply author: jamesd
Replied on: 08/14/2013 22:08:00
Message:
I was studing about cancer last night both my wife and I are being treated with a zinc cloride,mixed with plain white flour paste,she has breast cancer I had an old mole on my arm a new mole on my stomach both turned out to be cancers,I had read an article on cancer cell takeing in larger amounts of iron,zinc cloride being a caustic to metal,may just attact these iron ladden cells,any thoughts on this,something has to be diffrent in good cells vs cancer cells I think we over complacate things sometime
Reply author: anivoc
Replied on: 08/15/2013 02:55:59
Message:
JamesD
You mentioned both you and your wife are "taking" a mixture of zinc chloride and white flour.
Do you mean you are both taking it internally?
Are you getting this from a Naturopath?
My knee jerk reaction is Zinc chloride is not something you would want to take internally..but I am not a doctor and don't know for sure either way.
Breast Cancer is not skin cancer and this forum is really about "non melanoma" skin cancer.
I offer hope and prayers for you and your wife and strongly urge you to get her and you to a qualified medical doctor ASAP.
Her, because it is breast cancer and you because unfortunately moles that turn cancerous are more often than not, NOT one of the less dangerous skin cancers, a bleeding or irregular growing mole is a symptom of Melanoma ....the type of skin cancer we are NOT discussing treatment of here because of it's lethal nature.
This all said
I have personally been experimenting with ZC on some superficial and also old large basal cell tumors.
I can say this ...yeouch! If I have an open wound where there is a skin cancer Zinc Chloride (just zinc chloride liquefied to a 50% solution with water) definitely creates an immediate and obvious reaction. Using pure Zinc Chloride in a 50% solution I have had MAJORLY strong results...did it kill the tumor? it definitely killed some of it...It turned white (I suspect this is white blood cells) swelled and then died off.
I had a small basal cell on my cheek I had been hitting with a long list of various ingredients for the last 2 years... One night it was being exceptionally annoying and as I was messing with it started to bleed...I knew from previous experience that the zinc chloride 50% solution worked like a styptic pencil on shaving nicks so I applied a little ...WHAM! it stung and this little 1/4 wound started to swell up something terrible..it was like there was a small marble under the skin..On this one I never covered it and it took a few weeks for it to go down...where the original tumor was it has healed up and is slightly indented... Though this area is in the best condition it has been in in a few years..it is still tender and I suspect there is still some cancer there...
The infamous Dr. Mohs documented it.. Zinc Chloride kills cancer cells..
Now on the iron thing I was not aware of it but I do find it VERY interesting because of an observation I have made this year in regards to iron rust and skin cancer.
I was repainting a wrought Iron fence and was sanding the metal...When I went in to take a shower I noticed that all the little lesions on my face had sucked up the rust like little magnets..The rust was in the air from the sanding but seemed to condense and collect on the lesions...the shower cleaned them up..
A few more times while sanding metal I noticed the same phenomenon...what that all means I don't know just an observation..
In regards to how Zinc Chloride works I base the following on what I was told by a Veterinarian who made his own Bloodroot paste with Zinc Chloride to treat sarcomas on horses successfully.
He explained it as such...Cancers have a way of tricking the immune system so that it won't attack them..It has a veil or sac that mimics natural healthy cells.. when you apply the paste it exposes the tumor as an intruder and the white blood cells attack.. the rest is a pain, swelling miserable battle between your immune system and the invading tumor cells.
If I apply the same 50% solution to healthy skin (at least in my case ) nothing happens...to a healthy wound nothing happens... a cancerous wound....WATCH OUT ...
Well that's my two cents and that about what it is worth... I do hope and pray you get you and your wife professional medical advice immediately..you can always do the alternative thing but you really should know for sure what your traditional options are and the risk involved should you decide not to go that way..
All the best to you and good luck!
Reply author: jamesd
Replied on: 08/15/2013 08:23:21
Message:
anivoc iam sorry if it sounded like i was takeing this internally we are not," applied only to skin" my family has been using this since at least 1930 my mom has cured many people we use ground flaxseed politce after frist day changed daily,washed between applications with a cup of warm water mixed with a capful brown bottle lysol never have seen infection, after cancer comes out start using a homemade healing salve. my wife is under a doctors care. its a long road, painful at times but we know cancer can do no more to you than God will allow.
Reply author: anivoc
Replied on: 08/15/2013 10:33:46
Message:
Jamesd
I would appreciate you posting your ground flax-seed poultice recipe and also your healing salve recipe if you are willing.
It was coincidental that you posted the other day as I am getting more agressive with Zinc Chloride. I was in a lot of pain when I replied yesterday...I have a very large area on my shoulder that I can't get knocked out with Vitamin C and dmso ( been successful on smaller lesions )
Using a q-tip that I first moistened with water and squeezed it out.. I dripped a few drops of the 50% solution of Zinc Chloride on it...I then dipped the tip into my Vit C DMSO solution ( about 10 drops) and applied it...OUCH! well it hazed over white and swelled up pretty bad...started throbbing..this is very diluted in comparison to bloodroot paste..I will hit it again today the same way.. The swelling has gone down some ..this area is about 1" wide and was relatively flat..after the application last night it raised up about 1/4 of an inch...
BTW this is on my shoulder so the liquid doesn't just stay on my lesion no healthy skin had a reaction...only the lesion...again this is a dilluted version but it is noteworthy that again I personally have never had standard bloodroot paste or any of my solutions of Zinc Chloride effect MY healthy skin...
As has been mentioned, results can vary widely dependent upon the person, level of health and other medical conditions... Always smart to try a test area first..
Just a footnote on Zinc Chloride as blood stopper. It does seem to have an coagulator effect like a styptic pencil...
My son-in-law had a zit he had messed with that wouldn't stop bleeding I gave him a q-tip with my 50% solution and it stopped it immediately.
Reply author: jamesd
Replied on: 08/15/2013 11:15:21
Message:
anivoc just use ground flaxseed from foodcity. ect.make into a paste with hot water,apply to gauzepad dont use nonstick pads change daily flaxseed meal will dry out pulling cancer to a head after several days. as this increases may have to change twice daily as flaxseed meal dries it gets hard edges will get sharp. can be painful according where it at I guess not so bad on body parts that dont flex forarm back ect mix a ,thinner mix at first maybe alittle stiffer each day as it will rim and break adding is own liquid I posted the healing salve earlier in another post if you dont find it let me know
Reply author: jamesd
Replied on: 08/15/2013 20:35:03
Message:
what we have always done is to mix very little zinc cloride about the size of a kitchen match head with a few drops of water to a thin syurp then mix with plain white flour to make a stiff paste put on gauze pad cover place 24 hours it will burn or itch at first if cancer is present it will find it, may be a lot larger than place than it was applied to you will know when pad is removed.it will be white or gray.
Reply author: momnson
Replied on: 08/16/2013 15:44:21
Message:
Hoxey, great job! I am just finishing a spot on my buttox, that blew up to be huge! It just came out last night. I will try to post some pix. I am looking at previous pix from my face - when I did it I also swelled up so much I didn't recognize myself.
How is your nose now?
Talk soon,
I logged in, will this post?
New as of today
Reply author: momnson
Replied on: 08/16/2013 15:48:04
Message:
[quote]Originally posted by anivoc
Jamesd
I thought the black salve was only suppose to have the 4 herbs? Why do people use the zinc chloride when it works without it?
There is so much information. My latest eschar removal has my husband and I quite concerned. Should I get a biopsy of the area before doing it again? I am trying to post pics but have to work on it.
Thanks
Reply author: jamesd
Replied on: 08/16/2013 21:58:42
Message:
healing salve goes like this- one 3.5oz jar vaseline 10 drops carbolic acid,10 drops iodine,1/4 teaspoon copper sulphate ground to a fine powder,best to warm vaseline mix well should be a light pink.you can find copper sulphate on ebay ,carbolic acid or phenol acohol by scrip,maybe a vet,anyone have a good source please post,good iodine is hard to find I think because of meth be sure your not allergic iodine not sure about copper allergies
Reply author: Chill
Replied on: 08/19/2013 06:52:56
Message:
Hi Momnson, if you're concerned for whatever reason, please don't feel that consulting a doctor is a weak choice. The information on here is all over the place, the chemicals are hazardous and the replies might say things will work out fine when the people writing them just don't know enough about your situation.
If you and your husband have legitimate concerns, do your family a service and get it checked out.
Hope everything works out okay :)
Reply author: hatlady
Replied on: 08/19/2013 12:11:06
Message:
I used Black Salve 6 weeks ago on a scalp lesion that was confirmed a basal cell carcinoma by a biopsy and it seemed to follow all the scenarios I have read about and seen on the Internet. the pain has left, but the eschar is still there. It has been loose for 2 weeks except for right in the center it is still attached. All the swelling seems to be going away. I am keeping it covered and coated with vasoline. I am a little concerned that it doesn't come off. Occasionally there is a little bleeding when I clean it off with peroxide each day. Thanks for any input!
Reply author: Deb
Replied on: 08/21/2013 06:07:31
Message:
I continue to be grateful to all of the contributors to this site who have shared their real-life experiences; I have found them very helpful indeed. Using black salve has been a revelation to me. Having a choice around my treatment is essential and I think even those who have aired their strong opinions will remember this site and the discoveries that they have found. Should they be unfortunate enough to experience skin cancer and its often chronic nature, they may exercise their choice in a way that they protest fiercely against now. Of course, they would disagree with this possibility. However if they walked in the shoes of those with skin cancer.....
Reply author: cheryl21
Replied on: 08/22/2013 17:25:22
Message:
Chill,
This site presents "skin cancer treatment and prevention information to enable NATURAL healing of squamous or basal cell carcinoma". So, consequently the people who visit this site who are dealing with skin cancer and posting on the forum are asking questions and seeking advice regarding ALTERNATIVE ways of dealing with their skin cancers.
You think you are being helpful by telling people to go to the doctor and that what they are using is hazardous. People aren't stupid and they are weighing up the information available to them and deciding what to do in their own individual case. They know perfectly well that they can see a doctor and, in many cases, already have.
Reply author: julypanda
Replied on: 08/23/2013 01:59:17
Message:
WELL SAID CHERYL21 !!!!
Reply author: cheryl21
Replied on: 08/23/2013 03:13:35
Message:
Thanks Jules!
Reply author: BlondeAmbition3
Replied on: 08/23/2013 12:39:32
Message:
Chemotherapy and Radiation are also hazardous; (Some, not all, of the many side effects are listed below.... some even irreversible, including Death);
Chemotherapy Drug Possible Side Effects
(Not all side effects are listed. Some of those listed may be short-term side effects; others are long-term side effects.)
carboplatin (Paraplatin)
› usually given intravenously (IV)
› used for cancers of the ovary, head and neck, and lung
› decrease in blood cell counts
› hair loss (reversible)
› confusion
› nausea, vomiting, and/or diarrhea (usually a › short-term side effect occurring the first 24 to › 72 hours following treatment)
cisplatin (Platinol, Platinol-AQ)
› usually given intravenously (IV)
› used for cancers of the bladder, ovary, and testicles
› decrease in blood cell counts
› allergic reaction, including a rash and/or labored breathing
› nausea and vomiting that usually occurs for 24 hours or longer
› ringing in ears and hearing loss
› fluctuations in blood electrolytes
› kidney damage
cyclophosphamide (Cytoxan, Neosar)
› can be given intravenously (IV) or orally
› used for lymphoma, breast cancer, and ovarian carcinoma
› decrease in blood cell counts
› nausea, vomiting, abdominal pain
› decreased appetite
› hair loss (reversible)
› bladder damage
› fertility impairment
› lung or heart damage (with high doses)
› secondary malignancies (rare)
doxorubicin (Adriamycin)
› given intravenously (IV)
› used for breast cancer, lymphoma, and multiple myeloma
› decrease in blood cell counts
› mouth ulcers
› hair loss (reversible)
› nausea and vomiting
› heart damage
etoposide (VePesid)
› can be given intravenously (IV) or orally
› used for cancers of the lung, testicles, leukemia, and lymphoma
› decrease in blood cell counts
› hair loss (reversible)
› nausea and vomiting
› allergic reaction
› mouth ulcers
› low blood pressure (during administration)
› decreased appetite
› diarrhea and abdominal pain
› bronchospasm
› flu-like symptoms
fluorouracil (5-FU)
› given intravenously (IV)
› used for cancers of the colon, breast, stomach, and head and neck
› decrease in blood cell counts
› diarrhea
› mouth ulcers
› photosensitivity
› dry skin
gemcitabine (Gemzar)
› given intravenously (IV)
› used for cancers of the pancreas, breast, ovary, and lung
› decrease in blood cell counts
› nausea and vomiting
› fever and flu-like symptoms
› rash
irinotecan (Camptosar)
› given intravenously (IV)
› used for cancers of the colon and rectum
› decrease in blood cell counts
› diarrhea
› hair loss (reversible)
methotrexate
(Folex, Mexate, Amethopterin)
› may be given intravenously (IV), intrathecally (into the spinal column), or orally
› used for cancers of the breast, lung, blood, bone, and lymph system
› decrease in blood cell counts
› nausea and vomiting
› mouth ulcers
› skin rashes and photosensitivity
› dizziness, headache, or drowsiness
› kidney damage (with a high-dose therapy)
› liver damage
› hair loss (reversible)
› seizures
paclitaxel (Taxol)
› given intravenously (IV)
› used with cancers of the breast, ovary, and lung
› decrease in blood cell counts
› allergic reaction
› nausea and vomiting
› loss of appetite
› change in taste
› thin or brittle hair
› joint pain (short term)
› numbness or tingling in the fingers or toes
topotecan (Hycamtin)
› given intravenously (IV)
› used for cancers of the ovary and lung
› decrease in blood cell counts
› diarrhea
› hair loss (reversible)
› nausea and vomiting
vincristine
(Oncovin, Vincasar PFS)
› usually given intravenously (IV)
› used for leukemia and lymphoma
› numbness or tingling in the fingers or toes
› weakness
› loss of reflexes
› jaw pain
› hair loss (reversible)
› constipation or abdominal cramping
vinblastine (Velban)
› given intravenously (IV)
› used for lymphoma and cancers of the testis and head and neck
› decrease in blood cell counts
› hair loss (reversible)
› constipation or abdominal cramping
› jaw pain
› numbness or tingling in the fingers or toes
* Since I copied and pasted the above information, it may not view correctly... please use the following link;
Stanford Medicine » School of Medicine » Stanford Cancer Center » Understanding Cancer » Cancer Treatment » Methods
http://cancer.stanford.edu/information/cancerTreatment/methods/chemotherapy.html
"Properly prepared" Bloodroot Salve/Paste w/Zinc Chloride (Recipes are within this Web Site that have been implemented and are known to be safe)...is NOT hazardous to healthy tissue at all. Period.. Tens of thousands of Cancer Survivors (Including myself), can attest to this. Here's is only one of thousands of great articles about the healing Properties of Bloodroot; www.naturalnews.com/039803_indian_black_salve_cancer_cure_herb.html
The WHO (World Health Organization) acknowledges that many Chemotherapy CAUSES Cancers; www.greenmedinfo.com/blog/chemo-and-radiation-actually-make-cancer-more-malignant" target="_blank">http://www.greenmedinfo.com/blog/chemo-and-radiation-actually-make-cancer-more-malignant
GOD has provided each and every one of us with a wonderful mechanism called the Immune System.... and He's populated the Earth with every thing we need for the healing of that Immune System which ultimately brings about the Cure. (Not a single Product on the Earth CURES or HEALS us.... they just enable the Immune System to kick back in and do it's Job... the restored/repaired Immune System is what brings us to healing/cures)... it's up to each and every one of us to individually decide WHICH path is right for us. Doctors are that path for most, but for some of us Doctors are not an option, so we turn to GOD, Nature, and one another for the support and encouragement that we require once we've made our choices. Not every one of us will have a great outcome..... (Regardless of whether we choose the traditional Medical Route or the Holistic/Natural one)....
I pray over this Forum and it's Members. I pray GOD leads many to their healing paths that lay within these walls. "Amen"
Reply author: BlondeAmbition3
Replied on: 08/26/2013 17:43:20
Message:
Romans 12:9
Love must be sincere. Hate what is evil; cling to what is good.
Psalm 7:10
My shield is God Most High, who saves the upright in heart.
Psalm 12:7
You, LORD, will keep the needy safe and will protect us forever from the wicked,
Psalm 31:23
Love the LORD, all his faithful people! The LORD preserves those who are true to him, but the proud he pays back in full.
Psalm 34:14
Turn from evil and do good; seek peace and pursue it.
Psalm 37:40
The LORD helps them and delivers them; he delivers them from the wicked and saves them, because they take refuge in him.
Psalm 145:20
The LORD watches over all who love him, but all the wicked he will destroy.
Reply author: BlondeAmbition3
Replied on: 08/26/2013 17:50:54
Message:
Psalm 97:10
"Ye that love the Lord, hate evil." For he hates it, his fire consumes it, his lightnings blast it, his presence shakes it out of its place, and his glory confounds all the lovers of it. We cannot love God without hating that which he hates. We are not only to avoid evil, and to refuse to countenance it, but we must be in arms against it, and bear towards it a hearty indignation. "He preserveth the souls of his saints." Therefore they need not be afraid of proclaiming war with the party which favours sin. The saints are the safe ones: they have been saved and shall be saved. God keeps those who keep his law. Those who love the Lord shall see his love manifested to them in their preservation from their enemies, and as they keep far from evil so shall evil be kept far from them. "He delivereth them out of the hand of the wicked." It is not consistent with the glory of his name to give over to the power of his foes those whom his grace has made his friends. He may leave the bodies of his persecuted saints in the hand of the wicked, but not their souls, these are very dear to him, and he preserves them safe in his bosom. This foretells for the church a season of battling with the powers of darkness, but the Lord will preserve it and bring it forth to the light.
Reply author: Dave2001
Replied on: 08/28/2013 15:05:42
Message:
A massive thread that opens lot of questions, but after all, we do not need to be too biased in final conclusions, independently of our core beliefs what is right.
I saw too may deaths of friends and relatives after 3rd/4th stage cancers treated coventionally. Noone actually survived for any substantial period (3+ years).
I know personally 3 cancer survivors, after conventional medicine's verdict was that remaining time to live is 2-3 months and stopped any further attempts, except prescribing pain killers. All well documented.
I didn't study what exactly helped those people and all of them didn't publicize their healing miracles (being older people without Internet literacy etc.).
I have no experience with black salve in particular and cannot vauch for or against it, but I believe and hope that some credible foundation or fund will recognize a need and trigger (read-finance) scientific trial under impartial medical supervision to find out the truth behind claims, what may indeed be of help for millions suffering from similar conditions.
There are many reasons not to trust some doctors (I had few very nasty experiences), but of course not to all of them. Big Pharma and many MDs share similar professional interests, which may conflict (to extent) with interest of patients.
Reply author: BlondeAmbition3
Replied on: 08/28/2013 15:55:37
Message:
quote:
Originally posted by Dave2001
I believe and hope that some credible foundation or fund will recognize a need and trigger (read-finance) scientific trial under impartial medical supervision to find out the truth behind claims, what may indeed be of help for millions suffering from similar conditions.
This is my same wish Dave2001
Reply author: bonder
Replied on: 09/01/2013 15:24:07
Message:
Y'know Hmatt843...
Folks like you make me sick !!
Hi Horrux,
(I understand you are likely trying to save money and that you are trying to keep high hopes, but I would encourage you to please reconsider your route of treatment and seek truly professional care. Your health should be of utmost concern and is not something to be toyed or experimented with. Please consider my words more seriously than you may be initially inclined to.)
Who is paying you to come here and down-play one of the common-man's only choices left to treat cancer without huge expense???
Cave-Man-Like tools that simply cut into and spew-open the disease and spread cancer more widely due to the harshly ignorant process of exposing your bloodstream to the disease is ineffective, then calling the surgery a success until the next time when they say ...
" Well, we could not see this part of the disease" ?
The American medical community has made billions of dollars from cancer and so I imagine it is pretty scary to see that natural ingredients like Blood Root AND Cannabis are costing so much less to cure such a terrible disease like this.
But, the time has finally come where enough humans are able to compare notes like only doctors could easily do beforehand and then come up with good solutions rather than the heartless and cruel pretenses of the American medical process that jacked the cost of care past the levels of millions of working Americans due to Republican efforts to maximize profits for their clients...
We would all love to be able to just hop in the convertible and let our qualified and experienced doctor cure our simple skin problems but, you know what? THEY CAN'T DO IT !
All that ever happens is people I know or are in my family get butchered and go through tremendous pain and maybe if they are lucky, their very own immune system kicks in for them and they quit drinking or smoking for a while so that their bodies can catch up.
Too many Americans are too ignorant of the fact that the crap that is in fast food or sugar sodas damages our insides so much that we don't stand a chance from illness after a while and that because of this, something is bound to give sometime...
And now the sun is beating down upon us like never before so that a poor old man with no hair left is bound to get skin cancer even if he lives in Alaska !!
I wont go to a doctor for my skin cancer until I know without a doubt that I cant change my diet, apply a salve or cream or perhaps ingest a liquid immune system enhancer to do the job first.
Because I can afford it, I have faith in this process and I wont have chemical-pills shoved down my throat every time I need help.
These poisons usually tell me right on the bag how the crap may make me ill in the future. How stupid should I be ????
Freaking Criminals...
Be Well Always,
Bonder
Reply author: momnson
Replied on: 09/01/2013 21:51:54
Message:
I have decided because of the pain of my most recent mycosis fundoides removal 2" x 3" x 1 1/4" deep that I will not put my poor body through that again.
I am now using HERBAL PLUS Black Salve from Support 4 Heath, internally. I still have several skin spots I need to do; however now that I know I have CK/T-Cell Lymphoma I am going to do the major cleanse and hopefully kill my EBV and HHV-6 viruses along the way. It will pull ALL irregular cells from your body, break down any tumors and your body eliminates it through the normal cleansing process.
DO RESEARCH, but I won't have any more huge scars, painful and bedridden for months at a time and hopefully help with my other health issues.
I will try to post some pictures of my latest removal. Having a hard time getting them to upload
quote:
Originally posted by Horrux
OK so I have been using Black salve to successfully cure my skin cancer. 3 of my most prominent cancerous lesions fell out exactly 2 weeks after initial application. Here is my youtube playlist: https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLd5ZAHbQyq3OyZY7Jt-OAQmjTiSHGjyJi
After the success of the initial application, and the fairly low pain experienced, I decided to move ahead with a more ambitious plan. This time, I am covering an area between 3 and 4 times the size of a quarter. Also, I am targeting cancer which is deeper than the first time around.
And this time, boy, am I ever in pain. In my initial round, I would rate my pain about a 3 on a scale of 1 to 10, with occasional spikes to 4. During the second round, I have experienced days on end with a solid 8, with some rare spikes to a 9, where moaning and writhing from it becomes unavoidable. I had some codeine, and I ran through it quickly. I went to my doc for more, and luckily he was willing to comply, with the caveat that regulations prevented him from prescribing any more painkillers.
Now though, my cancer is halfway out, not detached all around, so clearly there is still work that needs doing, and I just took my last 3 codeine pills. I have been supplementing them with Advil and Aspirin, but I fear my liver cannot take too much more of that, and certainly not enough to treat this degree of pain.
Are there any tips as to how to be rid of this pain?
If it matters, I am located near Montreal, in Eastern Canada.
Thanks
Reply author: Carole
Replied on: 10/13/2013 21:39:57
Message:
(Hoping some of you who are using Black Salve are still reading the forum as this is my first post on this thread.) Have known about Black Salve for many years and we used it on a bad looking mole on my back years ago and it worked beautifully. I've had a BCC cancer, finally diagnosed more than a year ago, on the left side of my nose for probably more than five years but couldn't deal with it for a long time as I had kidney cancer and afterwards simply couldn't get my health back, losing more than 50 pounds afterwards. More than a year ago I began treating with iodine and posted on that thread for months. I have worked on it off an on for more than a year and it is still there and maybe worse. Must try something else.
I haven't wanted to use black salve on my face but absolutely will never go the medical route again as "the experts" destroyed my health with and the surgeries and treatments. For one, I was prescribed the antibiotic Levaquin, leaving me with many devastating, lifelong symptoms to live with as hundreds of others also describe on the internet. I'm past 70 now so figure I couldn't do worse myself using natural things than "the experts" did with their treatments.
I read almost all of the previous posts but the many attack posts throughout the summer I've just skimmed through as it is too much dirt-slinging to wade through. Obviously, most are aware that there is no guarantee of how one's cancer treatment will turn out (whether choosing the natural way OR the medical way. I can say without a doubt that I would never have gone the medical route with my kidney cancer IF I'd known how bad it would turn out) and I want to say how much I admire many here such as Hoxey, and others who have gone through such a lot taking responsibility for their own health. I still don't know what I'll do yet about my nose BCC but I'm sure there may very well be much more under the surface even than it appears and it does look bad. I am still struggling with other issues but must decide what I want to try soon.
I'd be interested to know what brands of Black Salve others are using that have had success. The brand I used years ago is "Herbal Plus" and it has the four normal herbs and also zinc, I believe.
Reply author: BlondeAmbition3
Replied on: 10/14/2013 01:15:54
Message:
quote:
Originally posted by Carole
(Hoping some of you who are using Black Salve are still reading the forum as this is my first post on this thread.) Have known about Black Salve for many years and we used it on a bad looking mole on my back years ago and it worked beautifully. I've had a BCC cancer, finally diagnosed more than a year ago, on the left side of my nose for probably more than five years but couldn't deal with it for a long time as I had kidney cancer and afterwards simply couldn't get my health back, losing more than 50 pounds afterwards. More than a year ago I began treating with iodine and posted on that thread for months. I have worked on it off an on for more than a year and it is still there and maybe worse. Must try something else.
I haven't wanted to use black salve on my face but absolutely will never go the medical route again as "the experts" destroyed my health with and the surgeries and treatments. For one, I was prescribed the antibiotic Levaquin, leaving me with many devastating, lifelong symptoms to live with as hundreds of others also describe on the internet. I'm past 70 now so figure I couldn't do worse myself using natural things than "the experts" did with their treatments.
I read almost all of the previous posts but the many attack posts throughout the summer I've just skimmed through as it is too much dirt-slinging to wade through. Obviously, most are aware that there is no guarantee of how one's cancer treatment will turn out (whether choosing the natural way OR the medical way. I can say without a doubt that I would never have gone the medical route with my kidney cancer IF I'd known how bad it would turn out) and I want to say how much I admire many here such as Hoxey, and others who have gone through such a lot taking responsibility for their own health. I still don't know what I'll do yet about my nose BCC but I'm sure there may very well be much more under the surface even than it appears and it does look bad. I am still struggling with other issues but must decide what I want to try soon.
I'd be interested to know what brands of Black Salve others are using that have had success. The brand I used years ago is "Herbal Plus" and it has the four normal herbs and also zinc, I believe.
I just sent you a private email Carole.
Reply author: anivoc
Replied on: 10/15/2013 22:38:09
Message:
To Dave and Blonde Ambition....The fact is the testing, the studies have already been done by the inventor of Mohs surgery. Bloodroot paste's efficacy has already been professionally medically studied and the results are quite clear it is an excellent anti cancer compound. I started a new thread and made it a sticky in regards to the TRUTH about bloodroot paste / AKA Zinc Chloride paste..HERE
Based upon the information I have shared there...IMO it is almost criminal, certainly negligent of the medical community and the schools that educate them that the average dermatologist and worse yet plastic surgeons doing Mohs surgery are not properly educated on Bloodroot paste.
If you take the time to go through and read the articles and information I've provided...I'm pretty certain you will find yourself asking how in the world can this be?
How can medical doctors, the people who are licensed and are supposed to know better than us, be unaware of the power and efficacy of this chemical compound and the history of it's use by Dr. Mohs himself?
One has to step back and ask...how much more critical knowledge / valuable information are they not being taught during their extensive and rigorous medical training and education. The education that allows them to be called a doctor and that the average lay person then puts his or her's life's trust and well being into?
Frustrating indeed..
Reply author: robbiethegood
Replied on: 10/27/2013 23:07:28
Message:
Agreed with Anivoc. Not much more to add currently.
Except to say that the paste will tend in my experience, to react on precancerous tissue, as well as cancerous. It will not react on normal tissue, providing you've gotten it from reputable sources. There are also several differing strengths of the paste too. It's a question of learning a bit of skill, like how and where to apply it.
Reply author: BlondeAmbition3
Replied on: 10/28/2013 00:37:49
Message:
quote:
Originally posted by anivoc
To Dave and Blonde Ambition....The fact is the testing, the studies have already been done by the inventor of Mohs surgery. Bloodroot paste's efficacy has already been professionally medically studied and the results are quite clear it is an excellent anti cancer compound. I started a new thread and made it a sticky in regards to the TRUTH about bloodroot paste / AKA Zinc Chloride paste..HERE
Based upon the information I have shared there...IMO it is almost criminal, certainly negligent of the medical community and the schools that educate them that the average dermatologist and worse yet plastic surgeons doing Mohs surgery are not properly educated on Bloodroot paste.
If you take the time to go through and read the articles and information I've provided...I'm pretty certain you will find yourself asking how in the world can this be?
How can medical doctors, the people who are licensed and are supposed to know better than us, be unaware of the power and efficacy of this chemical compound and the history of it's use by Dr. Mohs himself?
One has to step back and ask...how much more critical knowledge / valuable information are they not being taught during their extensive and rigorous medical training and education. The education that allows them to be called a doctor and that the average lay person then puts his or her's life's trust and well being into?
Frustrating indeed..
It's beyond frustrating! ... It's criminal.
Reply author: BlondeAmbition3
Replied on: 10/28/2013 00:40:49
Message:
quote:
Originally posted by robbiethegood
Agreed with Anivoc. Not much more to add currently.
Except to say that the paste will tend in my experience, to react on precancerous tissue, as well as cancerous. It will not react on normal tissue, providing you've gotten it from reputable sources. There are also several differing strengths of the paste too. It's a question of learning a bit of skill, like how and where to apply it.
Thank you robbiethegood for reinforcing these facts with us.
Reply author: aehinkley
Replied on: 11/20/2013 18:07:28
Message:
Do you have any updates of improvement from the surgeries, Hoxsey? Please let us see.
Reply author: saved1978
Replied on: 11/23/2013 01:37:24
Message:
Yes so good Gods Word, even in these days after YOLANDA (my wifes Filipino)we need to be unshakeable!These are days of shaking, "And this word, yet once more, signifies the removing of those things that are shaken, as of things that are made, that those things which cannot be shaken may remain" Hebrews 12:27 Keep up the good work Bro/sis!
quote:
Originally posted by BlondeAmbition3
Psalm 97:10
"Ye that love the Lord, hate evil." For he hates it, his fire consumes it, his lightnings blast it, his presence shakes it out of its place, and his glory confounds all the lovers of it. We cannot love God without hating that which he hates. We are not only to avoid evil, and to refuse to countenance it, but we must be in arms against it, and bear towards it a hearty indignation. "He preserveth the souls of his saints." Therefore they need not be afraid of proclaiming war with the party which favours sin. The saints are the safe ones: they have been saved and shall be saved. God keeps those who keep his law. Those who love the Lord shall see his love manifested to them in their preservation from their enemies, and as they keep far from evil so shall evil be kept far from them. "He delivereth them out of the hand of the wicked." It is not consistent with the glory of his name to give over to the power of his foes those whom his grace has made his friends. He may leave the bodies of his persecuted saints in the hand of the wicked, but not their souls, these are very dear to him, and he preserves them safe in his bosom. This foretells for the church a season of battling with the powers of darkness, but the Lord will preserve it and bring it forth to the light.
Reply author: Horrux
Replied on: 11/23/2013 10:53:22
Message:
quote:
Originally posted by hmatt843
Hi Horrux,
I understand you are likely trying to save money and that you are trying to keep high hopes, but I would encourage you to please reconsider your route of treatment and seek truly professional care. Your health should be of utmost concern and is not something to be toyed or experimented with. Please consider my words more seriously than you may be initially inclined to.
You know what's funny, you ignorant person? I live in Canada and all "health care" (more like disease insurance) is free. Free to be sick! Free to get cut up, nuked, and poisoned by doctors! For free! Yay!
That out of the way, I am very much taking care of business, and you can see on my youtube channel that I am making some very good headway on this cancer which was spread on my chest by ... a DERMATOLOGIST.
As the saying goes, "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me." Well, I'm not getting fooled twice. I am doing what makes sense for my medical condition.
Reply author: Carole
Replied on: 12/19/2013 13:18:58
Message:
We finally treated the basal cell cancer on the left side of my nose with black salve on December 4th. It is December 19th and yesterday the deepest and last part came out. I could not have hoped for a better outcome and feel so incredibly blessed! We knew cancer covered a good-sided area; however, after 12 hours we knew we must reapply because much of the obviously affected area still had not responded. So we applied the salve again and waited another 12 hours. I was expecting a bad situation but the cancer had mostly spread horizontally rather than deep. The remainder that came out yesterday left a very small hole and I even believe that in time it will fill in and should leave minimal scaring!
Obviously, it would have been much better to have done this probably five years ago but God has created a miracle for me. Now I want to encourage others as they seek to experience a natural solution for their own cancers. I truly believe the Black Salve only affects cancerous cells and it does an efficient job with minimal damage which is much different than having the cancer cut out.
I did try something different instead of using Vaseline to keep the area moist. I made my own salve using coconut oil and beeswax as I believe the coconut oil in itself is an excellent healing agent. I will be continuing to keep the entire area coated for some time while it continues with the healing process.
Reply author: anivoc
Replied on: 12/19/2013 14:15:34
Message:
Awesome Carole!
If you are so inclined to do so, before and after pictures are REALLY helpful to those that need encouragement.
Obviously we don't want manufacturers here touting their goods as that would be biased.
That said it is always good to hear when someone like yourself has had good results with a certain brand ..
If you don't mind please share where you acquired your Bloodroot paste and also what the ratio was in your coconut oil / beeswax salve..Love that you did that...
Congratulations!
Reply author: BlondeAmbition3
Replied on: 12/19/2013 19:58:43
Message:
quote:
Originally posted by Horruxquote:
Originally posted by hmatt843
Hi Horrux,
I understand you are likely trying to save money and that you are trying to keep high hopes, but I would encourage you to please reconsider your route of treatment and seek truly professional care. Your health should be of utmost concern and is not something to be toyed or experimented with. Please consider my words more seriously than you may be initially inclined to.
You know what's funny, you ignorant person? I live in Canada and all "health care" (more like disease insurance) is free. Free to be sick! Free to get cut up, nuked, and poisoned by doctors! For free! Yay!
That out of the way, I am very much taking care of business, and you can see on my youtube channel that I am making some very good headway on this cancer which was spread on my chest by ... a DERMATOLOGIST.
As the saying goes, "Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, shame on me." Well, I'm not getting fooled twice. I am doing what makes sense for my medical condition.
You have a right to be upset Horrux.... "FREE TO BE SICK HEALTH CARE" is the perfect description!
Reply author: BlondeAmbition3
Replied on: 12/19/2013 20:22:52
Message:
quote:
Originally posted by Carole
We finally treated the basal cell cancer on the left side of my nose with black salve on December 4th. It is December 19th and yesterday the deepest and last part came out. I could not have hoped for a better outcome and feel so incredibly blessed! We knew cancer covered a good-sided area; however, after 12 hours we knew we must reapply because much of the obviously affected area still had not responded. So we applied the salve again and waited another 12 hours. I was expecting a bad situation but the cancer had mostly spread horizontally rather than deep. The remainder that came out yesterday left a very small hole and I even believe that in time it will fill in and should leave minimal scaring!
Obviously, it would have been much better to have done this probably five years ago but God has created a miracle for me. Now I want to encourage others as they seek to experience a natural solution for their own cancers. I truly believe the Black Salve only affects cancerous cells and it does an efficient job with minimal damage which is much different than having the cancer cut out.
I did try something different instead of using Vaseline to keep the area moist. I made my own salve using coconut oil and beeswax as I believe the coconut oil in itself is an excellent healing agent. I will be continuing to keep the entire area coated for some time while it continues with the healing process.
I'm so happy with your outcome Carole!... and Thank you for sharing your personal recipe healing salve, I've made a note of it.
Reply author: Carole
Replied on: 12/22/2013 09:05:18
Message:
quote:
Originally posted by anivoc
Awesome Carole!
If you are so inclined to do so, before and after pictures are REALLY helpful to those that need encouragement.
Obviously we don't want manufacturers here touting their goods as that would be biased.
That said it is always good to hear when someone like yourself has had good results with a certain brand ..
If you don't mind please share where you acquired your Bloodroot paste and also what the ratio was in your coconut oil / beeswax salve..Love that you did that...
Congratulations!
Unfortunately we don't own a camera so I'm not able to get pictures. I'll try to describe the thing - originally it seemed to be a skin tag and I scratched it off probably more than 5 years ago. Before long the area became a sore and bled off and on for years. At the time I was also dealing with kidney cancer and after surgeries became very ill and wasn't able to deal with the BCC for several years.
Now I believe I know why everything turned out so badly after having surgery.(I certainly wish I had continued to use the Black Salve tablets and Zeolites because a second ultrasound had showed the cancer appeared to be smaller but I got scared.) This past August a new doctor diagnosed me (and my oldest daughter with the genetic defect MTHFR A1298C after having us do a blood test). This defect causes the body not to efficiently utilize folate. (The manmade form, folic acid, acts like a poison to one with this defect.) B12 is also involved and ultimately that whole methylation cycle, resulting in the buildup of toxins because the body isn't able to eliminate them efficiently.
I finally began using iodine about 1 1/2 years ago on the nose but every time I thought I had won the battle it would soon begin growing again. I had already used Black salve years before on my back with success and was confident it always worked; however, I hesitated to use it on my face, but the thing had definitely increased in size greatly, covering a majority of the left side of the nose and I suspected that having surgery done would probably cause me to lose a huge portion of the nose because in 2012 when a doctor diagnosed it as BCC he told me he would probably have to take skin from places such as between my eyes, for example, to cover the area and it sounded terrible.
I finally came to the place when I believed I might be able to endure the pain and still be able to get some sleep with doing it ourselves. (Incredible insomnia has been one of the symptoms of using the drug Levaquin in preparation to do the kidney surgery.)
The pain of having the Black Salve on the first 12 hours was very minor; the last 12 hours was terrible but I was able to sleep a little and since then I consider the whole process has been incredibly easy and the outcome is truly a miracle!
I believed the Black Salve I used was the Herbal Plus Brand; however, after checking with the company recently I was told it was most likely their previous product name Can-X. There is no label on the container.
The coconut oil/beeswax salve I made was 4 oz. of coconut oil and 1/2 oz. of beeswax originally. I thought it somewhat hard afterwards so added a little additional coconut oil and warmed it again and mixed together. Coconut oil is hard below about 76 degrees so it works better if it is kept somewhat warm. After putting on the skin it doesn't run or smear - stays in place and I believe it is superior to Vaseline.
Reply author: anivoc
Replied on: 12/22/2013 09:41:48
Message:
Thanks Carole!
Very cool that you were successful and you didn't lose a lot of your nose in the process.
Re: the salve
Wow the ratio you describe is 8 to 1 on the salve... I have been experimenting first with just olive oil and beeswax and then later also adding coconut oil..
Beeswax is hard, I was going at first 3 to 1 , then 4 to 1 but it is still a little hard...
The Chickweed healing salve that I have purchased in the past is the perfect consistency for a healing salve ...it's just a hassle to get and a little expensive when you add the shipping..It ends up being @ $20 for a 4 oz tin...just too much for something I can make for a lot less.
being as it is for sure at minimum 60-70% olive oil probably more ..seems pretty expensive and my homemade stuff works every bit as good. I buy my beeswax off of ebay you can buy 1lb for @ $16 delivered...
Reply author: Shez
Replied on: 01/13/2014 07:57:30
Message:
Hey Hoxsey,
I wish i read your post before i used salve.
I basically made the exact same mistake. Everything you said in all of your posts were the exact the same questions i was asking myself.
I had a confirmed BCC on my left shoulder blade, it was the size of a grain of rice.
I made some salve from the recipe on the "one answer to cancer" dvd and did a test patch on my foot. It all seemed good so I put the salve all around it, about 3cm sqaured, i wanted to make sure i had got it all....the entire patch reacted. A giant escher formed and fell out.
I was by now a member of a black salve facebook support group and was posting photos, there was alot of white stuff in the wound so everyone told me to reaply the salve to the open wound which i did, this time an even bigger escher formed and fell out.
To cut a long story short, after two salves, i now have a huge, thick, lumpy horrendous scar on my back the size of the palm of my hand. Every night i look at it in the mirror and want to cry at what i have done to myself. I am disfigured.
Ive since done test patches in sun damaged areas such as other parts of my back and my arms and EVERYWHERE reacts. So how can all of this be cancer?? If it is indeed true that salve only reacts to cancer then my whole upper body is a giant cancer. How could this be possible?
Through my own experience, i now truly believe that the salve reacts to ANY skin that is very badly sundamaged, not just cancer.
And i also believe that if the both of us had of had MOHs surgery instead, we would not have the scars we have now. Im sorry to say that out loud. And i cant imagine what you went through because what i went through is not as bad as you and it has still been the worst thing thats ever happened to me. But i too lay at night and ask these same questions and i try and tell my self that i did the right thing, but i know deep down that i am lying to myself.
I'm all for natural therapies and i know what the medical industry is like, liars, but think of this everyone...if your cancer is the size of a dollar coin, well that is its size, and if you go and have MOHs surgery, they will take it all out, and yeah that sux, and if you use black salve, you will take it all out too...the only difference is, with MOHs you know its all gone, with black salve you are just guessing.
Both will leave you scarred, so what is the difference?
The difference is this, with the doctor you can sleep at night because you know it its all gone and they only took what they needed to.
How do i know if the monstrosity i have on my back now was worth it?
I will never know.
Despite my bad experience, i am not against black salve, but none of us know how it works, we are all guessing and making assumptioms as best as we can, but we are all just human guinea pigs.
Reply author: BlondeAmbition3
Replied on: 01/13/2014 20:19:49
Message:
quote:
Originally posted by Shez
Hey Hoxsey,
I wish i read your post before i used salve.
I basically made the exact same mistake. Everything you said in all of your posts were the exact the same questions i was asking myself.
I had a confirmed BCC on my left shoulder blade, it was the size of a grain of rice.
I made some salve from the recipe on the "one answer to cancer" dvd and did a test patch on my foot. It all seemed good so I put the salve all around it, about 3cm sqaured, i wanted to make sure i had got it all....the entire patch reacted. A giant escher formed and fell out.
I was by now a member of a black salve facebook support group and was posting photos, there was alot of white stuff in the wound so everyone told me to reaply the salve to the open wound which i did, this time an even bigger escher formed and fell out.
To cut a long story short, after two salves, i now have a huge, thick, lumpy horrendous scar on my back the size of the palm of my hand. Every night i look at it in the mirror and want to cry at what i have done to myself. I am disfigured.
Ive since done test patches in sun damaged areas such as other parts of my back and my arms and EVERYWHERE reacts. So how can all of this be cancer?? If it is indeed true that salve only reacts to cancer then my whole upper body is a giant cancer. How could this be possible?
Through my own experience, i now truly believe that the salve reacts to ANY skin that is very badly sundamaged, not just cancer.
And i also believe that if the both of us had of had MOHs surgery instead, we would not have the scars we have now. Im sorry to say that out loud. And i cant imagine what you went through because what i went through is not as bad as you and it has still been the worst thing thats ever happened to me. But i too lay at night and ask these same questions and i try and tell my self that i did the right thing, but i know deep down that i am lying to myself.
I'm all for natural therapies and i know what the medical industry is like, liars, but think of this everyone...if your cancer is the size of a dollar coin, well that is its size, and if you go and have MOHs surgery, they will take it all out, and yeah that sux, and if you use black salve, you will take it all out too...the only difference is, with MOHs you know its all gone, with black salve you are just guessing.
Both will leave you scarred, so what is the difference?
The difference is this, with the doctor you can sleep at night because you know it its all gone and they only took what they needed to.
How do i know if the monstrosity i have on my back now was worth it?
I will never know.
Despite my bad experience, i am not against black salve, but none of us know how it works, we are all guessing and making assumptioms as best as we can, but we are all just human guinea pigs.
I've removed MANY Cancers from all over my body with my own formulation of Black Salve... which is a 'traditional' 30 percent Zinc Chloride/bloodroot formulation (along with some other herbs, oils and DMSO)... but my experience has not been the same as yours.... only 'bad/Cancerous' skin reacts... The healthy skin on my body does not react whatsoever. I've been researching this a long time, and I know DOZENS of Friends and Family Members who have used 'traditional' MOHS and/chemo/and/radiation/and surgery instead of bloodroot, and I'm here to tell you that ALL of them were told the Cancer was gone and they were in remission and/or cured. Well, I'm sorry to say that ALL of them are now departed and only my younger Sister and myself are still here, so while you can choose to believe "you can rest assured they got it all", I know for a FACT that you cannot. I am not a human guinea pig.... I'm a LIVING breathing survivor of CANCER.... and I owe it ALL to bloodroot.
Reply author: Hoxsey
Replied on: 01/16/2014 10:36:44
Message:
Shez-
Interesting story. I think you're right... I guess we are both giant walking precancerous/cancerous specimens? I believe bs does allow your body to identify and attack cancer cells. However it will also kill abnormal cells, common black salve knowledge. We, and surely plenty of others are the same. Something had to have been different about my skin cells where the bs was applied. All precancerous? . The biopsies just outside of the eschar area confirmed they were not CANCEROUS cells, but could they have been pre cancerous/abnormal? Theres no way to know. So that's a little scary, and lets say the entire area WAS cancerous? Then there's got to be more, because there's no way I applied it exactly to the edges of the cancerous cells.
I actually just used bs again last week on a bb sized little grey skin bump that had recently popped up. I used the salve confidently, only covering the small area...it didn't react or hurt, but 24 hours later, had a little Eschar, three days later, out, next day pretty much filled in! Great!
But SOMETHING different is going on with my face. Like you, just about anywhere I touched it on my face, it would immediately start to sting. I wish someone could explain it or research it and figure out what the deal is. My guess is precancerous cells. but damn, if thats true, Im in for trouble ahead! I can put it on my arm or hand or mostly anywhere else with no reaction.
Black salve is great to use to remove small skin cancers. I just won't ever apply it to such a big area, ESPECIALLY not on the nose.
With your story, I'm curious... You said you applied 3cm. How did it get to be the size of a palm?
(Play the glad game... At least it's not in the middle of your face!). : )
Reply author: BlondeAmbition3
Replied on: 01/16/2014 11:27:46
Message:
quote:
Originally posted by Hoxsey
Shez-
Interesting story. I think you're right... I guess we are both giant walking precancerous/cancerous specimens? I believe bs does allow your body to identify and attack cancer cells. However it will also kill abnormal cells, common black salve knowledge. We, and surely plenty of others are the same. Something had to have been different about my skin cells where the bs was applied. All precancerous? . The biopsies just outside of the eschar area confirmed they were not CANCEROUS cells, but could they have been pre cancerous/abnormal? Theres no way to know. So that's a little scary, and lets say the entire area WAS cancerous? Then there's got to be more, because there's no way I applied it exactly to the edges of the cancerous cells.
I actually just used bs again last week on a bb sized little grey skin bump that had recently popped up. I used the salve confidently, only covering the small area...it didn't react or hurt, but 24 hours later, had a little Eschar, three days later, out, next day pretty much filled in! Great!
But SOMETHING different is going on with my face. Like you, just about anywhere I touched it on my face, it would immediately start to sting. I wish someone could explain it or research it and figure out what the deal is. My guess is precancerous cells. but damn, if thats true, Im in for trouble ahead! I can put it on my arm or hand or mostly anywhere else with no reaction.
Black salve is great to use to remove small skin cancers. I just won't ever apply it to such a big area, ESPECIALLY not on the nose.
With your story, I'm curious... You said you applied 3cm. How did it get to be the size of a palm?
(Play the glad game... At least it's not in the middle of your face!). : )
So happy to hear from you Hoxsey!!!! (Doin' the 'happy dance' here just reading your post!).. and I'm doing my best to find more info re bloodroot and WHY some of us have faces that appear to be pre cancerous everywhere. (Which CAN be the case for those of us who were heavy Sun Worshipers)... I do know for certain that Bloodroot WILL react to Actinic Keratosis (and many other skin conditions considered to be pre-cancerous).... Many informative Web Sites and other informative Sites re Bloodroot have been 'pulled down' (if you will), by the "Powers that be". It's apparent "they" don't want People to discover the healing agents available outside the current Medical Paradigm. (For obvious reasons, such as GREED).... Have you ever seen photos of the people whose Derms prescribed Efudex to treat all of the pre-cancerous lesions on their faces? Oh my, if you haven't, you need to Google that now and the pictures will floor you as their faces are scabby messes (sometimes for months!) before they heal. I'm wondering if any one on this Forum knows if "Bloodroot" is in the Efudex formulations? Love to know that for certain.
Again Hoxsey, so happy to hear from you again and read your posts. After all, this particular thread is yours... and those of us who love and admire you hang for your every post.
Reply author: Hoxsey
Replied on: 01/16/2014 18:41:02
Message:
Thank you, Blonde ambition, I know you are a front runner in the bs online world, and I respect all you have to say!
I took down my icky photos today as it hasn't done much for the 'pro black salve' movement. I want this post to stress how important it is to use caution and as directed, to only apply very small amounts at a time, which at the time, I thought a quarter was a small amount. Not small enough in my case. Especially on the nose. I want to stress to others to do your OWN RESEARCH. I did my due diligence, and I was blown away that there were real cures for cancer out there that I had never heard of before... BLOWN away, like I had discovered the cure for cancer myself.... And I knew it was the way to go. But even with my due diligence, my case ended with a totally different result. It didn't turn out like the hundreds of other cases I saw photo proof of, especially Bill O'Leary's fantastic blog about his nose bcc salve experience. I did what he did and had extremely different results. I lost the entire area I covered plus all the cartilage beneath... ALL Of it so there were holes under the area I applied the salve...Bill lost a tiny spot out of the quarter sized spot he applied. So, people, know that my **** CAN happen to you. Or you could use bs and have perfect results... I just had perfect results with my little bb spot. My honey has an Eschar about to come out on his chest.
Anyway....
I guess my whole face is pre cancerous. Who knows. What I don't understand is why private donors don't come forward to pay for the research and testing of ALL the different natural cancer killing remedies that big pharma isnt willing to research, since they cannot patent or profit from these methods. Why? Or have they? Surely the philanthropists who donate generously have most all had a friend or family member affected with cancer at one time or another, so why wouldn't they want to contribute to researching natural methods as opposed to giving to the American cancer society or the Susan Komen whatever you call it? I'm just sayin.. Who can even do this kind of research? There are even websites where people donate to complete strangers. Maybe I will ask for donations if I know where to send them.
Good to connect with you, blondie! I'm still around... Just needed a break from this **** for a while.
Reply author: Carole
Replied on: 01/16/2014 19:45:09
Message:
I'm extremely grateful for the outcome of my own BCC just recently; however, as I wrote earlier no one can possibly know how their personal situation will turn out after treatment whether they choose the medical route or use natural methods. There's simply no way of knowing the outcome. The left side of my nose is still red but everything has filled in except where the biopsy was done and most likely that will always be indented. But I'm so happy with the outcome that I will never complain about what my nose looks like the rest of my life!
The crime of all this is that these more gentle methods are hidden from the public when they definitely cause less pain and scarring besides the cost factor.
Reply author: BlondeAmbition3
Replied on: 01/16/2014 20:41:34
Message:
quote:
Originally posted by Hoxsey
Thank you, Blonde ambition, I know you are a front runner in the bs online world, and I respect all you have to say!
I took down my icky photos today as it hasn't done much for the 'pro black salve' movement. I want this post to stress how important it is to use caution and as directed, to only apply very small amounts at a time, which at the time, I thought a quarter was a small amount. Not small enough in my case. Especially on the nose. I want to stress to others to do your OWN RESEARCH. I did my due diligence, and I was blown away that there were real cures for cancer out there that I had never heard of before... BLOWN away, like I had discovered the cure for cancer myself.... And I knew it was the way to go. But even with my due diligence, my case ended with a totally different result. It didn't turn out like the hundreds of other cases I saw photo proof of, especially Bill O'Leary's fantastic blog about his nose bcc salve experience. I did what he did and had extremely different results. I lost the entire area I covered. Bill lost a tiny spot out of the quarter sized spot he applied. So, people, know that my **** CAN happen to you. Or you could use bs and have perfect results... I just had perfect results with my little bb spot. My honey has an Eschar about to come out on his chest.
Anyway....
I guess my whole face is pre cancerous. Who knows. What I don't understand is why private donors don't come forward to pay for the research and testing of ALL the different natural cancer killing remedies that big pharma isnt willing to research, since they cannot patent or profit from these methods. Why? Or have they? Surely the philanthropists who donate generously have most all had a friend or family member affected with cancer at one time or another, so why wouldn't they want to contribute to researching natural methods as opposed to giving to the American cancer society or the Susan Komen whatever you call it? I'm just sayin.. Who can even do this kind of research? There are even websites where people donate to complete strangers. Maybe I will ask for donations if I know where to send them.
Good to connect with you, blondie! I'm still around... Just needed a break from this **** for a while.
Absolutely Hoxsey... the 'risks' for heavy disfigurement and scarring with Black Salve are REAL... and people NEED to be aware of this and heavy researching and due diligence before use is definitely in order. I'm also afraid countless numbers of brave People have attempted to fund researching for Black Salve (among other Cancer curing alternatives) and have met with failure and in many instances jail, due to BIG PHARMA and other "Powers that be" whose interests are motivated by money and Cancer 'sick' care. The REAL Money lies in SICK CARE, not cures. Twisted Medical Paradigm eh? I sure wish I knew how to win this fight regarding funding alternative Cancer Cures.... but I'm afraid it will forever exist only in our dreams because those that oppose us are far richer and more powerful than those that be for us. So very very sad.
Reply author: getrealpeople
Replied on: 02/13/2014 12:00:55
Message:
Wow, what can i say but wow.
Hoxsey, I'm so sorry you went through this, I'm so sorry that there are people in this world who are so evil or so deluded that they market this product, Black Salve, as a safe and effective cure for cancer.
I can totally see why you were sucked in. The people making money off this stuff are very clever and pick on desperate people who will do anything to stay alive when faced with possible death from cancer.
But Hoxsey, after all you've put yourself through, how can you still be advocating this stuff. Is losing the end of your nose not enough to convince you that this stuff is not what it is claimed to be?
Here is a fact for you. Black Salve can not tell the difference between healthy cells and cancerous cells. That is a fact!
It is simply a highly caustic substance that will burn any flesh it comes into contact with. If you want to argue this fact with me then here is how you can do it. If you believe Black Salve will not kill healthy cells, then apply a patch of it to some skin you know to be healthy, leave it on for 24 hours in the same manor you would treat a cancer and see what happens. I will bet any amount of money that you will end up with a large burn and the skin would react in exactly the same way as it would to cancerous skin. The reason it reacts so much worse on the face is that the skin on your face is much more sensetive than other areas.
Unless you are prepared to do this do not waste your time trying to convince me or anyone else that Black Salve can somehow tell the difference between healthy and cancerous skin.
If you've just read through this blog and are thinking about using black salve I bet you are desperately wanting to see the pictures that Hoxsey had posted but has now removed. Well in the interest of public safety I will now post those picture. I'm sorry if this upsets Hoxsey, I have cropped the photos so she cannot be identified, but I feel it is important for people to see these so they can see just how corrosive this stuff is.
Hoxsey, I know you want to believe that this stuff really works, and that for some reason, like all the skin on your nose was pre-cancerous and thats why it burnt so bad. Because if you accept it doesn't work and it is just a caustic substance that burns anything it comes into contact with, you will have to accept that you have been conned, and bought into a lie that has caused you to permanently disfigure your face when standard medical practice could have removed the cells and only left minor, if any scaring. But Hoxsey, wake up, you of all people should be warning others of the dangers, not still defending this snake oil.
Remember people, there was only a small patch of pre-cancerous cells on the end of her nose, and this is what the Black Salve did to her
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Reply author: getrealpeople
Replied on: 02/13/2014 12:59:42
Message:
quote:
Originally posted by djt10
If science is your god, god help you.
The only "proof" out there is the horrendous, well-documented outcome of conventional cancer treatments. Statistically, we are in far worse shape now as a nation than when the "war on cancer" began decades ago. A 2.1% "success" rate (survival at 5 years) for chemotherapy, compared to a 5% survival rate for doing absolutely nothing (spontaneous recovery) tells the whole story. Happily, there are scientific studies and research supporting the effectiveness of bloodroot on cancer cells specifically, and at least one study done on a cohort of cancer patients using salve (over 5 thousand, I believe)successfully.
It's all very well posting stats like that but I'm calling BS unless you can direct me to the studies that back up these claims so I can verify them
Here's some facts for you
Blood Root
Toxicity to animal cells[edit]
Sanguinarine kills animal cells by blocking the action of Na+/K+-ATPase transmembrane proteins. As a result, applying bloodroot to the skin may destroy tissue and lead to the formation of a large scab, called an eschar. Bloodroot and its extracts are thus considered escharotic.
Zinc Chloride
Zinc chloride is a skin and respiratory irritant according to its MSDS.[40] Precautions that apply to anhydrous ZnCl2 are those applicable to other anhydrous metal halides, i.e. hydrolysis can be exothermic and contact should be avoided. Concentrated solutions are acidic and corrosive, and specifically attack cellulose and silk as Lewis acids.[41]
Zinc chloride fume has occupational exposure limits set, as the Occupational Safety and Health Administration and the National Institute for Occupational Safety and Health have both set limits at 1 mg/m3 over an eight time-weighted average. A short-term exposure limit for exposure is set at 2 mg/m3.[42] An Immediately Dangerous to Life and Health explosure is set at 50 mg/m3.[43]
Reply author: Bwakul
Replied on: 02/15/2014 05:51:43
Message:
I thought it might be beneficial to post this, as most will not have free access to this journal article from The Journal of Alternative and Complementary Medicine.
I recommend reading the complete article. Some fascinating remarks about Mohs.
A Review of Topical Corrosive Black Salve
Kristin L. Eastman, MD,1,2 Lynne V. McFarland, PhD,2 and Gregory J. Raugi, MD2,3
ABSTRACT
Black salve is a compound derived from various inert ingredients, but it can be transformed into a corrosive ointment by the addition of bloodroot (Sanguinaria canadensis) or zinc chloride. Black salve products have been advertised as a natural remedy for many ailments, ranging from bee stings to skin cancer. This article reviews the current literature surrounding this compound, which in its corrosive form can be dangerous for use without medical supervision. Patients should be educated about the lack of objective evidence supporting the clinical efficacy of black salve as a skin cancer treatment, as well as the possible cosmetic defects resulting from tissue necrosis secondary to the effects of bloodroot and zinc chloride.
INTRODUCTION
Black salve topical products are used as an alternative therapy for everything from boils and bug bites to warts and skin cancer. Widespread use of the Internet has allowed for easy dissemination of non–peer-reviewed information on alternative therapies, often referring to anecdotal reports rather than objective, peer-reviewed studies. Additionally, it is questionable whether the original lesions referred to in testimonials were truly skin cancer because many lack documented biopsy results to confirm a cancer diagnosis. This reliance on anecdotal reports may lead patients to use a black salve product that is not scientifically proven to reliably cure skin cancer and can potentially lead to disastrous complications.
The components of black salve vary widely, from a combination of various innocuous ingredients to inclusion of bloodroot (Sanguinaria canadensis) or zinc chloride, which results in a corrosive topical agent capable of indiscriminately damaging healthy and diseased tissue alike and forming eschar (sloughed dead tissue). It is this escharotic form that has been marketed as an alternative skin cancer treatment, and although numerous testimonials exist, references about the clinical efficacy and associated risks are scarce. Common names of these corrosive black salve products include Can-X, CentreForce (formerly Cansema), Curaderm, HerbVeil8, Hoxsey's dark red paste, Mexican black salve, and PureCents.
Although black salve has a reputation as being an alternative treatment, its history includes significant roots in allopathic medicine. Frederic E. Mohs, the originator of Mohs micrographic surgery for skin cancer treatment, first performed the surgery using a fixed-tissue technique using a paste composed of stibnite (antimony sulfide), bloodroot extract (S. canadensis), and zinc chloride applied to the tissue to be excised.1 In 1944, Mohs patented the paste and signed all rights over to the Wisconsin Alumni Research Foundation for $1. Dr. Mohs explained, “The purpose of patenting was to prevent others from doing so and selling [the paste] indiscriminately to persons not trained to use it with complete microscopic control.”1 He went on to make arrangements to ensure that the fixative was supplied only to physicians certified to use it properly.
The use of this fixative in Mohs micrographic surgery fell out of favor in the 1970s, when multiple investigators, including Mohs himself, discovered the fresh-tissue technique was equivalent to the fixed-tissue technique for cancer clearance1,2 yet was completed in 1 day, while the fixed-tissue technique took an average of 3–5 days.3
Around the same time of Dr. Mohs' discoveries, Harry Hoxsey, a self-proclaimed healer, marketed and sold a similar escharotic paste as a cancer remedy. Hoxsey eventually opened 17 clinics in the United States, promoting his “Hoxsey Cancer Treatment,” although he lacked objective evidence that any of his patients were indeed cured of skin cancer.4,5 Eventually the sale of the Hoxsey Treatment was banned and his U.S. clinics shut down. One clinic in Tijuana, Mexico, established in 1963, remains operational today and still offers Hoxsey therapy.
This article reviews the literature for the benefits and risks of corrosive black salve use. This review is intended to educate providers and patients on current black salve literature and to warn providers about the potential dangers for patients engaging in unmonitored use of escharotic black salve.
ESCHAROTIC AGENTS
The two most common escharotic agents used in modern black salve preparations are bloodroot (S. canadensis) and zinc chloride. Bloodroot, a perennial plant native to eastern North America, was originally mixed with onions by the Native Americans to create an escharotic paste. Bloodroot contains the alkaloid sanguinarine, which causes oxidative DNA damage and apoptosis, thus leading to tissue necrosis.6,7 Two independent studies suggest that sanguinarine contains anticancer properties; these studies found that (1) sanguinarine shows differential binding to various polymorphic nucleic acid conformations8 and (2) at micromolar concentrations it preferentially induces apoptosis in human squamous carcinoma cells over normal human epidermal keratinocytes.9 It is important to note that the differential response of cancer and normal cells to sanguinarine is only at very low doses. Typical bloodroot black salve preparations contain high doses of sanguinarine, which lead to the indiscriminate death of normal and cancerous cells alike and result in extensive tissue necrosis with possible secondary necrotizing vasculitis.10
Zinc chloride was popularized as an escharotic cancer treatment in the early 19th century by Canquoin of Paris, Bougard of Brussels, and Dr. J. Weldon Fell. It was then repopularized by Dr. Frederic Mohs in the 1940s. Dr. Mohs is credited with discovering that zinc chloride causes in vivo fixation, preserving the histologic tissue architecture. These discoveries were the basis for use of zinc chloride in modern-day escharotic pastes, although the exact mechanism of zinc chloride–induced necrosis remains unclear.
PRODUCTION & REGULATION
The U.S. Food and Drug Administration (FDA) does not oversee the manufacturing of herbal supplements but does monitor their marketing. Manufacturers and distributors are not obligated to disclose to the FDA or consumers what evidence they have to support their product's safety or claims before putting their products on the market. However, if products claim to cure, treat, mitigate, or prevent disease and are not proven safe and effective for their labeled use, they are considered unapproved new drugs marketed in violation of the Federal Food, Drug, and Cosmetic Act.11 Beginning in 2008, the FDA has collaborated with the Federal Trade Commission to prevent the sale of fraudulent cancer cures by sending warning letters to companies illegally claiming that their product, including black salve, can be used to treat cancer on their websites.12,13 Because of the rapidly changing content available on the Internet, it is difficult for the FDA to eradicate all false claims about black salve. At the time of this review, a simple Internet search yielded websites claiming black salve “completely eliminates abnormal tissue”14 and “can be applied safely to healthy skin tissue, even sensitive skin.…[It] does not affect healthy tissue, only neoplastic (cancerous) cells.”15
Despite regulation efforts, the public continues to have easy access to these ointments advertised as a cancer cure through do-it-yourself Internet recipes, Internet and local distributers, gifts from friends or relatives, and products brought back from trips abroad. To circumvent some of the barriers imposed by regulatory agencies, “animal” black salve products are being marketed and sold with manufacturer admissions that the ingredients for the banned human version and available animal version of their products are the same.16
These compounds are subject to poor quality control and may contain a wide range of active and inactive ingredient concentrations. Beyond manufacturer variation, Graf and colleagues (2007) reported that sanguinarine concentration varies between wildcrafted and cultivated bloodroot.17 Cultivated bloodroot has a slightly lower absolute concentration of sanguinarine (2.25–2.75#8201;mg/100#8201;mg dried rhizome) compared with wildcrafted bloodroot (2.81–3.96#8201;mg/100#8201;mg dried rhizome). Furthermore, the concentration of sanguinarine in wildcrafted bloodroot varies seasonally, being highest in early spring.17 Therefore, the concentration of the escharotic agent, sanguinarine, is variable depending on how the bloodroot was grown and what time of year it was harvested.
CLINICAL OUTCOMES
Although laboratory evidence documents anticarcinogenic effects of black salve ingredients (bloodroot and zinc chloride), no randomized clinical trials on the efficacy and safety of black salve products have been published. Lacking randomized clinical trials, the evidence for any benefits of black salve comes from published case reports, as shown in Table 1,18–26 which details a spectrum of outcomes ranging from patient satisfaction,18,19 unacceptable scarring,20–22 to invasive recurrent tumor21,23 to ulcer complications26 to death due to delayed definitive treatment.21,24 Following are examples of published case reports describing the range of patient experiences
Table 1. Published Black Salve Case Reports
A 51-year-old man who presented with a confirmed basal cell carcinoma on his nasal tip was offered Mohs micrographic surgery. Instead he preferred to self-treat the lesion with a bloodroot-based salve. After eschar formation and subsequent secondary intention healing, he was left with a depressed, irregular scar on the nasal tip and a fair cosmetic outcome. Twelve months after the bloodroot salve treatment tumor had not recurred, but he remains under long-term surveillance because there was no definitive proof (i.e., histology) that the tumor was completely eradicated.26
A previously published case letter by the current authors details a patient who used a corrosive black salve product for a self-diagnosed skin cancer on the left side of his nose. The treatment resulted in necrosis and permanent loss of his left ala (Fig. 1). However, despite his cosmetic defect, the patient continued to support the use of black salve for skin cancer. Since his black salve use 11 years ago, there has been no tumor recurrence on or near the left side of his nose.18 A similar report by Saltzberg and colleagues also describes the complete loss of the nasal ala due to black salve use.22
Metastasis of basal cell carcinoma is uncommon (<1%), but the frequency of metastasis increases according to the size of the primary cancer (up to 50% for tumors >10#8201;cm in diameter).27 An example of this is a case of a 52-year-old man who originally presented with a biopsy-proven basal cell carcinoma of the left side of his nose. In lieu of definitive surgery to remove the tumor, he elected to treat it with black salve, which achieved apparent clinical resolution. However, 11 years later, the cancer recurred in the same area and penetrated to a level that necessitated two stages of Mohs micrographic surgery, a partial maxillectomy, a radical neck lymphadenectomy, and radiation therapy. The cancer subsequently metastasized to distant bony sites, and despite systemic chemotherapy the patient died.24 Whether the recurrence was due to a failure of black salve to remove all residual cancer cells or to a new occurrence of cancer is unknown. Basal cell carcinoma rarely spreads to the bone, but this metastasis has been reported by others.28
STANDARD THERAPY
Surgical excision, electrodessication and curettage, and Mohs micrographic surgery are the current standards of care for skin cancer treatment. It should be recognized that the standard of care, although an excellent management strategy, is imperfect for several reasons: 1) If a lesion is assumed to be contiguous, islands of residual tumor may possibly be left behind in the normal tissue; 2) time constraints in performing Mohs surgery do not allow for routine use of immunostains and cell markers, thus causing some tumor types to be difficult to identify microscopically and possibly overlooked;29 and 3) the health care provider may make technical errors. No skin cancer treatment is curative 100% of the time, but the high success rate of these techniques, in addition to other factors outlined in Table 2, makes the standard of care a superior choice over corrosive black salve.30–33
The scarring that results from initial black salve treatment can obscure the tumor and disrupt the lesion continuity that is essential for optimal surgical performance. Therefore, surgical treatment is best used as a first-line treatment and not as a second-line treatment after black salve therapy.
Table 2. Comparison of Black Salve with Mohs Micrographic Surgery
RISKS
One risk that accompanies self-treating with corrosive black salve is the patient's belief that clinical resolution of the lesion equates to histopathologic clearance of the lesion, which it does not. Because of the escharotic character of black salve, this treatment may destroy both cancerous skin and healthy skin to a degree that eradicates the local cancer.20 However, without proper evaluation, which includes a conclusive biopsy, there can be no guarantee that all the cancer cells have been completely eliminated. If residual cancer cells are present after treatment, the cancer will recur; the lesion may then require excision or the cancer may metastasize to other sites in the body.21,24 In addition, if suspicious lesions are not biopsied to rule out cancer, the corrosive salve may cause unnecessary skin damage in the case of a benign mole or lesion. Self-treatment with corrosive black salve may also result in a substantial delay in definitive diagnosis and surgical treatment of melanoma, which increases the risk of metastasis or deeper penetration of the lesion.21,24,25
Many black salve users do not understand the potential consequences of this product. Health care providers should communicate clearly that although black salve is labeled as “natural,” the salve is not necessarily safe or harmless. Providers should maintain an open dialogue with patients who are interested in using these products and thoroughly educate them on the risks, the range of aesthetic outcomes, and allopathic treatment options. Escharotics may potentially lead to elimination of all tumor cells, but patients may not be satisfied with the cosmetic outcome and choose to undergo scar revision surgery, as other dissatisfied patients have.20,21
CONCLUSIONS
Given the wide range of available skin cancer treatment options, some patients prefer naturopathic/homeopathic treatment regimens, such as black salve, over the current standard of care of surgery or electrodesiccation and curettage. However, the modern public may not fully understand the lack of objective data on the efficacy of black salve products in predictably curing skin cancer. They may also be unfamiliar with the potential risks associated with this corrosive compound, such as significant cosmetic defect, unconfirmed clearance of all cancer cells, and cancer recurrence or spread.
Because of the widespread availability of black salve products, providers should be familiar with this compound and its potential dangers. It is important to keep an open dialogue with patients about alternative medicine, while striving to effectively impart evidence-based information for the patient's decision-making process. Although patients should be appropriately counseled about their treatment options, providers must ultimately respect a patient's autonomy to choose the course of treatment.
As evidenced here, a variety of outcomes are possible after the use of corrosive black salve, ranging from patient satisfaction and cancer eradication to significant morbidity, suboptimal treatment, and death.18–25
The difficulty lies with the unpredictability of patient use, varied product quality, inconsistent user directions, and lack of regulation surrounding this compound. Such unpredictability puts patients at increased risk of adverse outcomes and is unnecessary in a time when the standard of care is scientifically proven to be safe, predictable, and effective in cancer eradication. It is important to note that Dr. Mohs patented his salve to prevent the widespread use of a potentially dangerous topical treatment by untrained persons; however, today this is exactly what is happening with the unregulated distribution of escharotic agents for unmonitored home use by the general public.1
The concept of black salve as a cancer treatment is not unfounded, as some escharotics agents have been shown to have anticarcinogenic properties, but randomized controlled trials comparing them to standard therapies are lacking.23,34 A small, preliminary clinical trial comparing trichloroacetic acid (another type of escharotic agent) with other types of treatments has shown promise for reducing the development of nonmelanoma skin cancer.35 Because of the documented corrosive nature of black salve, enough tissue necrosis can occur to eradicate cancerous cells; however, the resultant collateral damage to surrounding normal tissue can be unacceptable and unsafe and does not constitute optimal medical care.1,10,20–25 Sanguinarine possesses the potential for development as a topical skin cancer treatment as a result of the differential response of squamous carcinoma cells and epidermal keratinocytes documented by Ahmad and colleagues.9 However, more investigation is needed to determine its safety, the optimal concentration necessary to target cancer cells while minimizing damage to normal cells, and its efficacy as a topical chemotherapy. In the future, we recommend randomized, double-blinded clinical trials testing the efficacy, safety, and therapeutic dose of sanguinarine for topical treatment of skin cancer.
Reply author: djt10
Replied on: 02/15/2014 13:57:13
Message:
Did someone miss something? Zinc Chloride is corrosive to organic materials all right--cellulose and silk. Cellulose is what's found in plant cells, and not in normal human cells ...except in human cell walls that have become plantlike, meaning fungal. There is something in cancer cell walls closely related to a fungal structure. This suggests that salve is able to break down abnormal cell walls so that bloodroot can get to the cancer.
Anyone who has watched the salve process carefully and as many times as I have for myself and different family members and friends knows that applying salve to healthy skin with nothing underneath gets no results other than maybe a faint pinkness. When there's something on top of the skin, of course. When it's beneath, it has to absorb into the tissues and it's only when morbid material comes to the surface and breaks through that surface tissue is eaten up, the same as a boil or any skin eruption would cause. In fact, to go after internal things, I always used a sterilized needle to prick the surface of the skin where salve is applied because of the difficulty in having it absorb through healthy skin, and even then it's not immediate. Does someone actually believe that a substance corrosive to skin would take several days to eat through it from the outside? It just doesn't happen that way. And many people take it internally (a tiny bit of salve in a capsule) or in the form of bloodroot capsules or pills with no action on the stomach or bowels.
If you want to risk releasing cancer cells into the bloodstream, by all means, have a needle biopsy. Cutting or puncturing into a cancer is always such a good idea.
And just who is going to allow or finance randomized, double-blinded clinical trials? That is wishful thinking any rational, reasonable person can agree with. Dream on.
Reply author: Bwakul
Replied on: 02/15/2014 15:48:19
Message:
ThAT is pseudoscience.
Do your own research on zinc chloride and fixatives. The intention is to retain the structure of the cell and prevent putrefaction but all biochemical reactions within the healthy cell cease and for all intents and purposes the tissue. Whether healthy or cancerous, is dead. Toxicity will depend on the concentration and other contents in the salve. i.e it won"t necessarily "fix" all tissue it comes into contact with.
It is notable that studies have found bloodroot to be selective for cancerous cells over healthy cells, but apparently only at low concentrations, not at those higher concentrations found in most black salve products.
It would be interesting for someone to do some in vitro work on the apparently large amount of empirical data that people experience less reaction on healthy skin than diagnosed BCCs or precancerous skin. There certainly seems to be a strong case from personal anecdotes here. I'll look further at the preclinical studies or scientific rationale for this, if there are any. A lack of published evidence doesn't mean it ain't so! I find some of your stories fascinating.
But yes, unlikely RCTs could attract funding or pass ethics approval with the patient case histories and evidence of serious adverse reactions. Add to that the high efficacy of conventional treatments. Of course, conventional treatment has it's risks too. We nearly lost my father a couple of months ago from a post surgical infection after removal of a BCC from his ear. He came close to sepsis and now has a "Spock" ear. I won't be sending him back to that particular dermatologist. I think I can sort of see why someone who has many recurring small BCCs might choose to self treat. ANIVOC - would you suggest someone with a larger BCC defer to conventional surgery due to the increased risks of not getting all the cancer, greater risk of damaging healthy tissue and especially lack of confirmed borders? Despite your experience of cancer returning.years after confirmed borders, I would think it still offers better odds?
Reply author: BlondeAmbition3
Replied on: 02/15/2014 21:03:27
Message:
Ditto djt10. I've been taking internal bloodroot (30/30 ratio), since 2010 with no damage whatsoever to my internals. I've been using it since 2008 externally, and as you have stated, with NO reactions whatsoever to healthy skin tissues. My Husband, (along with other family members and friends who have tried it), can attest to this also. It's interesting that you mention 'human cell walls that have become plant-like, related to a fungal structure".... Please read what Italian Dr. Simoncini (who discovered that "Cancer is a Fungus"), has to say on this exact matter.
Cancer is fungus
by Dr. Tullio Simoncini
oncologist
Among the many books that try to give an answer to the problem, the one given by the oncologist Tullio Simoncini distinguishes itself by its simplicity and its innovative ideology.
The book “Cancer is a fungus” describes how a fungous infection always forms the basis of every neoplastic formation, and this formation tries to spread within the whole organism without stopping. The growth of the fungous colonies, together with the reaction of the tissue that tries to defend itself against the invasion, causes the tumour. This is a simple and solely extracellular phenomenon.
Therefore, there is only one cause of cancer: candida, which, according to the anatomical branch concerned causes different histological reactions. This is the reason why there are so many types of tumours.
http://cancerisafungus.com/
Nice seeing you on the Forum wall again djt10....
quote:
Originally posted by djt10
Did someone miss something? Zinc Chloride is corrosive to organic materials all right--cellulose and silk. Cellulose is what's found in plant cells, and not in normal human cells ...except in human cell walls that have become plantlike, meaning fungal. There is something in cancer cell walls closely related to a fungal structure. This suggests that salve is able to break down abnormal cell walls so that bloodroot can get to the cancer.
Anyone who has watched the salve process carefully and as many times as I have for myself and different family members and friends knows that applying salve to healthy skin with nothing underneath gets no results other than maybe a faint pinkness. When there's something on top of the skin, of course. When it's beneath, it has to absorb into the tissues and it's only when morbid material comes to the surface and breaks through that surface tissue is eaten up, the same as a boil or any skin eruption would cause. In fact, to go after internal things, I always used a sterilized needle to prick the surface of the skin where salve is applied because of the difficulty in having it absorb through healthy skin, and even then it's not immediate. Does someone actually believe that a substance corrosive to skin would take several days to eat through it from the outside? It just doesn't happen that way. And many people take it internally (a tiny bit of salve in a capsule) or in the form of bloodroot capsules or pills with no action on the stomach or bowels.
If you want to risk releasing cancer cells into the bloodstream, by all means, have a needle biopsy. Cutting or puncturing into a cancer is always such a good idea.
And just who is going to allow or finance randomized, double-blinded clinical trials? That is wishful thinking any rational, reasonable person can agree with. Dream on.
Reply author: Nanoagain
Replied on: 02/16/2014 10:20:53
Message:
So:
Conventional treatment: lesion may recur if all cancerous areas are not treated
Black Salve treatment: lesion may recur if all cancerous areas are not treated
Conventional treatment: cosmetic outcome may be less than optional per skill of provider
Black Salve treatment: cosmetic outcome may be less than optional per skill of provider
Conventional treatment: cancer may metastasize
Black Salve treatment: cancer may metastasize
If you are happy with conventional treatment, you should continue with conventional treatment. if black salve scares you, then don't use it.
Did you use black salve yourself on your skin cancer and get a bad result?
Reply author: Carole
Replied on: 02/16/2014 13:58:35
Message:
Excellent description of the options, Nanoagain! The wonderful thing is that yet Americans are still able to choose which option is the best for them personally. The sad part is that there are some who would take the choice away. Why not just live and let live and quit trying to tell someone else what is best for them?!
Reply author: BlondeAmbition3
Replied on: 02/16/2014 22:34:23
Message:
Well said.
quote:
Originally posted by Nanoagain
So:
Conventional treatment: lesion may recur if all cancerous areas are not treated
Black Salve treatment: lesion may recur if all cancerous areas are not treated
Conventional treatment: cosmetic outcome may be less than optional per skill of provider
Black Salve treatment: cosmetic outcome may be less than optional per skill of provider
Conventional treatment: cancer may metastasize
Black Salve treatment: cancer may metastasize
If you are happy with conventional treatment, you should continue with conventional treatment. if black salve scares you, then don't use it.
Did you use black salve yourself on your skin cancer and get a bad result?
Reply author: BlondeAmbition3
Replied on: 02/16/2014 22:41:08
Message:
Beautifully articulated Carole!
quote:
Originally posted by Carole
Excellent description of the options, Nanoagain! The wonderful thing is that yet Americans are still able to choose which option is the best for them personally. The sad part is that there are some who would take the choice away. Why not just live and let live and quit trying to tell someone else what is best for them?!
Reply author: SRM
Replied on: 02/19/2014 19:09:59
Message:
Wow, Hoxsey...you are amazing!! I am both humbled and inspired by your courage and your attitude after taking so many knocks on your journey. I wonder if you realize how truly amazing you are! I hope good things come your way :)
Reply author: setherd
Replied on: 03/17/2014 08:29:02
Message:
I was wondering what else besides cancer black salve / bloodroot works on.
I had some black salve from a cancer scare I had about a year ago. (wasn't cancer, was a erupting blood vessel on my neck, weird)
I recently had what I thought was a large pimple on my stomach. I put some black salve on it and well it worked like you see in pictures. I didn't have the pain that people describe though.
This morning taking a shower the eschar fell out. very small less than 1cm
I don't think it was cancer. anyone hear of it working on just a plain old infection? I'll try to post pics later.
thanks!
Reply author: Carole
Replied on: 03/17/2014 11:23:21
Message:
A couple of years ago a naturopathic doctor recommended to me that I use Black Salve for 1-2 months to clean up my blood stream. At that time I tried to use it internally and my GI system wouldn't handle it. I had previously used it for at least two months without any problems; however, this was a about two years after having kidney cancer and at that time I was very ill.
Reply author: getrealpeople
Replied on: 03/17/2014 14:06:27
Message:
quote:
Originally posted by djt10
Did someone miss something? Zinc Chloride is corrosive to organic materials all right--cellulose and silk. Cellulose is what's found in plant cells, and not in normal human cells ...except in human cell walls that have become plantlike, meaning fungal. There is something in cancer cell walls closely related to a fungal structure. This suggests that salve is able to break down abnormal cell walls so that bloodroot can get to the cancer.
No Cancer is really not fungle, thats the dumbest thing i've ever heard. it's simply normal cells growing out of control. fact! Your crazy buying into the nonsense promoted by one doctor who has been struck off and convicted by an Italian judge for wrongful death and swindling
quote:
Originally posted by djt10
Does someone actually believe that a substance corrosive to skin would take several days to eat through it from the outside? It just doesn't happen that way.
Yes, pretty much all burns whether heat, cold or chemical burn from the inside as the outer layers of skin are much tougher, the heat or chemical seeps into the skin and causes more damage to the deeper layers. fact. If you don't understand simple things like this you clearly should not be offering any medical advice.
quote:
Originally posted by djt10
If you want to risk releasing cancer cells into the bloodstream, by all means, have a needle biopsy. Cutting or puncturing into a cancer is always such a good idea.
Nonsense, cancer does not work like this and seeing as you promote puncturing the skin with needles to get black salve in you risk this all the time, but seeing as this cant happen it doesnt matter
quote:
Originally posted by djt10
And just who is going to allow or finance randomized, double-blinded clinical trials? That is wishful thinking any rational, reasonable person can agree with. Dream on.
Actually if there was any evidence to support your claims these trails would have happened a long time ago as they have with many other proven natural remedies.
The holes in you knowledge/ logic/ arguments are so big it's beyond laughable. it's just so sad that people desperate for hope will buy into your nonsense snake oil cures and harm themselves or worse
Reply author: getrealpeople
Replied on: 03/17/2014 14:24:14
Message:
quote:
Originally posted by Carole
Excellent description of the options, Nanoagain! The wonderful thing is that yet Americans are still able to choose which option is the best for them personally. The sad part is that there are some who would take the choice away. Why not just live and let live and quit trying to tell someone else what is best for them?!
I don't want to take anyones choice away, i don't even want black salve banned, i just want people to stop promoting unproven nonsense about it and tell it how it is. Until someone can put together a proper peer reviewed study and trails to prove it's effectiveness and the claims that it can tell the difference between healthy and unhealthy cells people need to accept that this is simply a caustic substance that does nothing more than burn the cancer out but will also burn healthy cells and can cause disfiguring injuries like Hoxsey suffered.
There is a reason science needs to be based on peer reviewed studies, it's to stop someone from promoting a cure that doesn't work purely for profit. It's the age old snake oil scam, a scam you have all bought into because your desperate to believe that anything to do with mainstream medicine is a lie and that the natural way is best. Well if thats so how comes life expectancy and cures for a huge number of
diseases are now far greater than they were hundreds of years ago before modern medicine came about?
There's nothing wrong with natural remedies and alternative treatments as long as they don't stop people from getting the treatment they need, and unfortunately due to the fact that black slave promotors and such like use scare tactics not based on fact to stop people seeking proper medical treatment people are hurt and die
Reply author: anivoc
Replied on: 03/17/2014 17:42:34
Message:
Getrealpeople... It gets old when the facts are right here in these threads for anyone to read....but for some reason some just seem to either be oblivious to them, ignore them and just bang on their own drum.
I strongly encourage you to take the 10 or so minutes it will take you to become properly informed about bloodroot paste ( Zinc Chloride paste) before trying to preach here about.
To be very clear I have been a topicalinfo member here for years...I don't sell this stuff or any of the other supplements or protocols discussed here...I'm just one of the lucky skin cancer gene pool lottery winners..so there is no monetary motivation for me to defend this stuff...trust me when I say...it's not even close to "snake oil"... the stuff works and works extremely well..There have been peer reviewed studies and in fact there are some real live medically trained and licensed American doctors that are actually using blood root paste today. Not to mention plenty of veterinarians for sarcomas on horses.
One of the first things I did before using bloodroot paste, the same as thousands of others have done prior to trying was place some of the same salve on a known to be healthy patch of skin (where the sun don't shine) for 24 hours..
ZERO effect ...nada...
However in just one minute on a biopsied basal cell and I was saying Holy Moses! The stuff is powerful and is a very good option. It would be nice if the average derms around the world were more educated about it and we could all just go to them to get treated..sadly most are as unaware of its efficacy as you are...so HERE is the link to THE TRUTH ABOUT BLOODROOT Paste Do yourself and the rest of us here a favor and read through it so if you choose to continue to speak on the subject you can do so better informed on the matter.
Bloodroot paste is a seriously powerful approach and anyone that chooses to do it should do their own very thorough due diligence..even discuss with an informed dermatologist...if you look hard and far enough you can find them. Highly unlikely the first derm you speak to will have a clue but there are some willing to learn and some that actually use it.
Reply author: getrealpeople
Replied on: 03/20/2014 15:51:10
Message:
quote:
Originally posted by anivoc
I strongly encourage you to take the 10 or so minutes it will take you to become properly informed about bloodroot paste ( Zinc Chloride paste) before trying to preach here about.
10 minutes?? I've spent hours researching this subject and from properly researched articles from qualified people. Unlike djt10 who spouts information written by a doctor who has been struck off and prosecuted for criminal wrongdoings and who's information is not back up and is laughed at by the rest of the medical community
Reply author: BlondeAmbition3
Replied on: 03/20/2014 17:05:59
Message:
Really? You've spent 'hours' researching this Subject? That qualifies you as an expert then hunh?
It wasn't djt10 who spouted Dr. Tulio Simonchini's well documented surgical procedures where he clearly demonstrates in 3 days how he cured both lung and colon Cancers with simple Baking Soda & Water application directly onto Cancerous (fungal) tissues, that would be me.
I find it interesting how so many people (such as yourself), will believe all of the blatant DIS-information and lies the FDA shills plant all over the Internet, and will even come into a Forum such as this one, dedicated to helping people interested in alternative therapies, to run their mouths when they haven't even 'tested' the Product for themselves on themselves.
What is it with YOU PEOPLE? Are you all such control freaks that you can't stand anyone doing anything that YOU think is wrong?
I could care less what YOU think. What bothers me is you think everyone else should listen to you when you have no experience or credentials to back your claims whatsoever, while you sling mud at everyone else on this Board.
Unlike YOU, I've done MORE than research Bloodroot Pastes. (Which I've done since 2007... not just 'hours')..... I've been taking internal Bloodroot since 2008 with no adverse effects and I've had it everywhere on my body for up to 3 days with no reactions whatsoever on normal healthy skin. (The formulation I use is similar to Greg Caton's CANSEMA- 30% Zinc Chloride by volume).
I KNOW Bloodroot cures Cancer.... and I have Medical PROOF of it. MY Medical Proof. I know Baking Soda cures Cancer, I have a friend who has Medical Proof it cured him of his Stage 4 Prostate Cancer.
If you're a Male in this Country, you have a 50 percent chance of contracting Cancer in your lifetime.... Women, 30 percent. I actually think the chances are higher... Most of the People in my Family who contracted Cancer and went the 'conventional' route are all dead... except for myself, my little Sister, and my Mom.... We're all (past five years)survivors.
The saddest thing I've ever had to witness, is when people dismiss the truth for lies...... and then perpetuate those lies as if they're facts.
quote:
Originally posted by getrealpeople
10 minutes?? I've spent hours researching this subject and from properly researched articles from qualified people. Unlike djt10 who spouts information written by a doctor who has been struck off and prosecuted for criminal wrongdoings and who's information is not back up and is laughed at by the rest of the medical community
[/quote]
Reply author: sunblock69
Replied on: 05/13/2014 15:34:49
Message:
I have a message for "getrealpeople", and that is that while I might agree with you 100% on the potential dangers and risks of cansema, and the fact that some of the people promoting it are crooks and charlatans, the absolute wrong way to go about the discussion is the shout at people and call them idiots.
Despite the facts, and most facts are not as clear cut as we would like them to be, everyone has the right to choose what they want for their health.
I live and work in North West Australia and I have treated more skin cancers than most people will see in a lifetime. If someone wants to use topical treatment (like petty spurge, or curaderm, or even efudix) on what I think are sunspots on their arms - go right ahead, I will check it in 2 months and see if it has worked - these are safe treatments in low risk areas.
But if someone wants to use black salve, I will caution them strongly against it, especially if the skin lesion hasn't been checked or biopsied. I can usually propose a better treatment - often just curretting and burning with a diathermy. It heals more rapidly, and I have at least 95% cure rate, and I can use it safely around sensitive areas like the nose and eyelids.
I don't lecture them or call them stupid, I just provide them with what I think are the facts from my experience, and if they want to choose differently, they have my 100% support, because they are have the same rights as me.
So my advice to "getreal.... " is to treat people and their views with respect, even if you think they are wrong
Reply author: anivoc
Replied on: 05/13/2014 19:18:40
Message:
quote:
Originally posted by getrealpeople
10 minutes?? I've spent hours researching this subject and from properly researched articles from qualified people.
Yes 10 minutes reading the very real and valid information I posted Here and the links therein...OK maybe it will take you an hour..
If you take the time to educate yourself you'll find that the hours you've allegedly spent "researching" have left you sorely misinformed on bloodroot paste. It is not the be all end all but it is definitely a MEDICALLY PROVEN powerful tool in the treatment of non melanoma and melanoma skin cancers...
Reply author: Ojay
Replied on: 06/19/2014 05:02:51
Message:
G'day, I am now to this forum and new to Black Salve.
I put some on to a lump on the side of my nose, covered it and left it for a day. When I took the plaster off, it looked like I had seen on others on the net, red, puffy and black in the middle. That was a few days back, but I have not really understood how to have looked after it since. The first day or so I put oil on it thinking this was right, but the scab had softened and blended into the skin around it. So then I left it to dry, but again it doesn't look like pictures where it comes apart from everthing going white and would then fall off. Any help please...
Reply author: Ojay
Replied on: 06/19/2014 08:25:35
Message:
Apologies to you, after I posted this I found the thread from Ken Murray and have gotten my answers.
Reply author: fRomance
Replied on: 08/31/2021 02:35:18
Message:
quote:
Originally posted by Nanoagain
So:
Conventional treatment: lesion may recur if all cancerous areas are not treated
Black Salve treatment: lesion may recur if all cancerous areas are not treated
Conventional treatment: cosmetic outcome may be less than optional per skill of provider
Black Salve treatment: cosmetic outcome may be less than optional per skill of provider
Conventional treatment: cancer may metastasize
Black Salve treatment: cancer may metastasize
If you are happy with conventional treatment, you should continue with conventional treatment. if black salve scares you, then don't use it.
Did you use black salve yourself on your skin cancer and get a bad result?
This is the best tip I've heard today, thanks!
Reply author: dog1824
Replied on: 11/24/2021 17:06:30
Message:
Yes it would turn out the same, the nerves that are causing the mis-folded proteins and LPS to attack those mis-folded proteins so it cannot spread only last so long, zinc chloride expands and oxidizes the LPS so if used properly comes out to the surface, the problem is the nerves that are causing the mis-folded proteins fixing those are very hard but not impossible, I have been using it for nine years nine months.
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